Automation May Make Toll Roads More Common 585
bfwebster writes "Here in Denver, we have E-470, a toll section of the 470 beltway, that uses the usual transponder attached to your windshield. Fair enough, and I make use of it, particularly in driving to the airport. But they've just implemented new technology on E-470 that allows anyone to drive through the automated toll gates. If you don't have a transponder, it takes a photo of your license plate and sends a monthly bill to your house. As a result, the company that runs E-470 plans to close all human-staffed toll booths by mid-summer. And as an article in this morning's Rocky Mountain News notes, 'Such a system could be deployed on other roads, including some that motorists now use free. The result: a new source of money for highways and bridges badly in need of repair.' You can bet that legislators, mayors, and city councilpersons everywhere will see this as an even-better source of income than red-light cameras. You've been warned."
As used in Ireland (Score:5, Informative)
Old news... (Score:4, Informative)
They have been doing this in Toronto with 407ETR for a long long time. Wonder why it just started in US?
Re:Why is this a bad thing? (Score:5, Informative)
The result: a new source of money for highways and bridges badly in need of repair.' You can bet that legislators, mayors, and city councilpersons everywhere will see this as an even-better source of income than red-light cameras. You've been warned."
Why is this a bad thing? If the users of the road have to pay a little extra to maintain the road they're using, I don't have problem with it. If the money is being poured into some politician's slush fund, sure that's a problem, but reasonable use fees are exactly what's called for her. It sure beats the "selective billing" process of red-light cameras.
Why is it a bad thing.. let me count the ways...
1) typically, (at least in TX), the photo billed to the home address of the registered owner of the car.. carries a $1 service fee, + a 20% penalty (for not having the prepaid transponder) + the toll.. so a 50 cent toll is now $1.60 + check and postage
2) Most of the money doesn't go back to up keep of the road .. it goes to profit for the corporation running the toll system
3) If you piss off some one.. they will simply take a digital picture of your license plate and run through all the toll plazas they can find. And you will have to fight each one individually..If the person has any brains.. he will do it in the same make/model/year as your vehicle and you will never convince the the administrative judge it is not you, unless you in your car happen to trip through a toll plaza within seconds of the miscreant
Don't laugh it is become a big problem in Europe where kids to get back a teachers.. take pic of the teachers license plate and then go speeding through as many speed traps as they can find. Each ticket running a few hundred Euros, unless you live in Finland where the ticket is a percentage of your income.
4) Quite a few of the companies running such systems are run by European companies that take all the profits back home rather than reinvesting in this country.
Re:Why is this a bad thing? (Score:5, Informative)
If the money is being poured into some politician's slush fund, sure that's a problem, but reasonable use fees are exactly what's called for her.
It's always the slush fund. Houston, TX had a "toll road project" that was supposed to end the toll roads 10 years after the beltway was completed. How did they get around it? They put one little "spur" of 1/4 mile off the edge, claimed it was supposed to "eventually" be a mile long, and deliberately left it unfinished so that they can claim the project is "not completed."
Meanwhile the state funding that was SUPPOSED to be going to widening TX-290 in Houston? Oh yeah, that got embezzled to pay for lobbying efforts on the NAFTA superhighway project that nobody wanted.
Point being: it's always the slush fund that the toll road money goes to.
The other thing we have in Houston now? They did away with the posted signage telling you how much the toll is. If you drive round the beltway and you have an "EZPass", you have absolutely no idea how much money you were charged until you get your monthly statement. There are no signs saying what the toll is to get on, No early-warning with "free exits" right before each big pay-plaza, and the only way you're going to find out the toll price is by going through the pay booth and asking the attendant.
And of course there are certain areas (Westpark Tollway) that you're ONLY allowed onto if you have an EZPass. I wound up buying an EZPass just as a defensive measure because of the number of times cops have been caught forcing people over into the exit-only lane onto that toll road since it was built.
Go through those gates without a transponder? Massive fine - and there's no appeal process, no way to get before a judge to say "Here's the situation, I couldn't safely get out of the lane, I got to the first available exit but they've put a toll reader before that exit." It's all a revenue scam, nothing more.
not the solution (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Old news... (Score:4, Informative)
I think the difference is that Toronto's 407 ETR has never had manned toll booths, but was originally built with support for number plate cameras and transponders.
It was the world's first highway to feature this system throughout [wikipedia.org].
Austin's Bad Example (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why is this a bad thing? (Score:4, Informative)
Some Roman roads in medieval Europe were heavily tolled during the Dark ages by local lords, the Church and other authorities, making travel prohibitively expensive for all but the elite. This hindrance to trade, along with unsafe conditions for traders, is seen as a reason why the European economy was so stagnant during this period. (Sorry, it's the weekend, I don't feel like citing sources :P)
This can be seen as the logic behind roads being a project funded from the public purse. If everyone has free/libre access to roadways as a result of the taxes they pay, then everyone is free/libre to use them to conduct trade.
Think of it as the Net neutrality issue of the last millenium. ;)
Re:Why is this a bad thing? (Score:2, Informative)
Wrong. The federal highway trust fund is bankrupt because the federal gas tax hasn't kept pace with the cost. Here in Minnesota, only about 1/3 of the cost of roads is covered by state and federal gas taxes and other driving-related fees. The rest comes from property taxes and various other sources.
Re:Old news... (Score:3, Informative)
Our government should not be in the business of making it more expensive for me to go see my family 100 miles away.
But I assume that you agree they should make it /possible/ to see your family 100 miles away?
Thereby making it more expensive for me for you to see your family 100 miles away.
Not if tolls are used in lieu of taxes ;)
Re:Why is this a bad thing? (Score:3, Informative)
We already pay fuel taxes, the money from which _should_ be used to fund road repair.
Adding separate billing is absurd and imposes an additional compliance burden on users.
Re:As used in Ireland (Score:5, Informative)
then you have never lived in an american city.
Mass transit systems fail in all but the largest of cities. There is a problem. Not enough people spread out over to great of an area. Growing up my school was 20 miles away. The nearest store was 6. When i started working I literally had to drive 50 miles a day 6 days a weekk just back and forth to work. that is no other side stops.
Now I live only 8 miles and 15 minutes from work. However if I wanted to use mass transit my travel would cover 20 miles, and take over an hour to do so. mass transits systems require the majority of people to live in a small space. That isn't the case in America. America is simply to spread out for it to work effectively. Maybe when we double our current population will it make more sense.
Until such a time cars are more efficient for the tens of thousands that travel back and forth going in thousands of different directions at different times.
Simpson Springfield is a nice example. the trolly only goes in circles. that is the case in many cities. Invent a hoverbus, that flies 50 feet off the ground and it might change.
Re:Why is this a bad thing? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Calm down, this is a decade old (Score:5, Informative)
Gas taxes in the US are not high enough to pay the annual costs of the US road system. The rest of the money for maintaining our roads comes from general revenue.
Re:Why is this a bad thing? (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/24/teens-copying-enemies-license-plates-to-get-revenge-via-speed-c/ [autoblog.com]
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/04/458.asp [thenewspaper.com]
http://wcbstv.com/politics/congestion.pricing.london.2.597052.html [wcbstv.com]
Re:Sure, until you get nailed. (Score:3, Informative)
First of all the toll system can look you up RIGHT AWAY, and if the camera is smart enough to determine make, model, and color of car, then surely a mismatch comes up or the plate doesn't exist at all, and 5 miles down the road you're pulled over.
One of the problems in the UK is that we've recently changed the laws on getting number plates made up so that you need to bring the car's registration documents with you when you buy them. Unlike a lot of countries where you get replacement plates every year (or every few years) when they expire, in the UK a number plate is only replaced if it's broken or defaced in some way, or if the car is re-registered with a personalised plate.
The practical upshot of the change in the law is that it's harder to get fake plates (because no reputable garage will make up plates without the logbook), so criminals steal the number plates from other cars that match the one they want fake plates for. If you own a black VW Golf, you're *stuffed* - you almost have to take your plates off at night.