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Comments: 278 +-   South Korea Joins the "Three Strikes" Ranks on Tuesday March 10 2009, @12:51PM

Posted by kdawson on Tuesday March 10 2009, @12:51PM
from the judge-and-jury dept.
internet
Glyn Moody writes "For years, the content industries having been trying to get laws passed that would stop people sharing files. For years they failed. Then they came up with the 'three strikes and you're out' idea — and it is starting to be put into law around the world. First we had France, followed by countries like Italy, Ireland — and now South Korea: 'On March 3, 2009, the National Assembly's Committee on Culture, Sports, Tourism, Broadcasting & Communications (CCSTB&C) passed a bill to revise the Copyright Law. The bill includes the so called, "three strikes out" or "graduated response" provision.' Why has the 'three strikes' idea caught on where others have failed? And what is the best way to stop it spreading further?"
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  • Which is why it's caught on. Sharing someone else's copyrighted material is still not legal, and this approach, while stupid, does give people a fair chance to stop.

    (Although I can't see it working here in Finland, where people _need_ the net to do stuff like banking.)

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      You think depriving people of access to the Internet == which is quickly becoming an essential resource to many -- is more fair than suing people left and right?

        • Make 'em use text-only browsers :D "Look mum, i'm watching Lord of The Rings in ASCII art!"

          The Ralph Bakshi version, right?

        • <i>A real solution, of course, would be the content holders to get off their collective asses and make way for a global and non DRM:d way to access content at a reasonable fee.</i>

          Everyone that has tried this has been abused. No ifs, ands or buts; everyone that has tried going the open route has been anally raped with no lubricant, and no kiss afterwards. It's worked like this:

          Company 1: *drm*
          Consumer: "u fagget i pirate u"
          Company 2: "That's not right... here, just pay a reasonable fee, and I wo
    • by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:20PM (#27138193)

      And, like a lot of people, you missed the point: there is no need in any of these provisions to prove that you were indeed file sharing. All it takes is an infringement allegation by someone stating that they represent a copyright holder. That's it. And I can tell you that the vast majority of ISPs will log the allegation, tally up the current count, and cut off the Internet if the tally reaches three. If you're lucky, they send out form mails stating that they received an infringement notice, and how many there are now.

      You got DHCP? You're pretty much guaranteed to get someone else's notice. And as you pointed out, a lot of stuff gets done over the internet. Including my job. The Recording associations are essentially killing off the ability of anyone but large corporations to use the internet. Of course they're happy with that. The questions is - are you? Can you be?

      • by bobKali (240342) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:51PM (#27138711) Homepage

        Seems to me that what is needed is a large number of people abusing this law and lodging false complaints with the aim to deny service to random/ non-random people before the legislators will be able to understand what a stupid law this is. Once enough of their (voting) constituents are adversely affected they'll either rescind it or be voted out of office.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Why random people?

          Let the law pass, then use the law to deny service to the very same lawmakers who voted it in. Shouldn't take long to piss them off.

          Why hurt the common man unless we have to when it's the legislators that are being stupid.

          I also recommend using the law to hit big corporations in a variety of ways.

          • by ultranova (717540) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @05:21PM (#27142003)

            Let the law pass, then use the law to deny service to the very same lawmakers who voted it in. Shouldn't take long to piss them off.

            Lawmakers aren't subject to the laws. That's why they pass stupid laws in the first place: they know that any complaint made against them will be investigated and, unless done by a large enough company, ignored.

            Why hurt the common man unless we have to when it's the legislators that are being stupid.

            The common man is the only one you can hurt. Legislators are quite safe in their ivory fortress.

            I also recommend using the law to hit big corporations in a variety of ways.

            If politicians are untouchable, then corporations are Demon Gods capable of smiting you with lawsuit and then dragging you through all kinds of legal Hells. Don't even think of going up against them.

            You know that old joke? "Cthulhu for president - why vote for the lesser evil?" The sad thing is that, as far as powers that be go, Cthulhu is the lesser evil.

        • by tsm_sf (545316) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @02:36PM (#27139463) Journal
          Leaving aside the idiocy of treating logfiles like fingerprints, are you absolutely going to swear that the ISP machine and the RIAA machine are set to the same time?

          The RIAA's whole approach is a house of cards, and I believe that in the end they will irreversibly damage the credibility of genuine computer forensics.
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            I don't understand the conspiracy theory here. It just doesn't make sense.

            It's in the RIAA's best interest to provide accurate time stamps because they gain nothing by having the wrong people's connection cut. If the real offender is still uploading then the RIAA has just wasted time and money and achieved nothing.

            It's in the ISP's best interest to keep accurate time stamps so they can cut the right person's connection because each customer they turn off is $60 a month they stop making - that adds up

            • by schon (31600) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:23PM (#27143421) Homepage

              It's in the RIAA's best interest to provide accurate time stamps because they gain nothing by having the wrong people's connection cut. If the real offender is still uploading then the RIAA has just wasted time and money and achieved nothing.

              Wrong. Utterly and completely wrong.

              In the mind of the RIAA, EVERYBODY is guilty of "stealing" their product. Even if they didn't "catch" you downloading something, you're guilty of downloading something, even if it's not theirs. And if it's not theirs, it's even better, because it spreads fear that downloading *anything* will get you sued.

              Make no mistake - the RIAA's litigation campaign isn't actually designed to catch people who are copying their music, it's designed to scare everybody into going back to buying overpriced shiny discs.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:20PM (#27138201)

      It's not fairer. "3 strikes" implicitly assumes that you are guilty. It's typically used in sentencing proceedings in some criminal courts.

      In applying it to filesharing, the laws conveniently (for the accuser) leave out the proof-of-guilt phase. It is really just "3 times accused and you're out". At least with a lawsuit the accused has a chance to put forth their side of the story to an impartial court of law. The new laws do not.

    • My comment is now on your computer, as are many other people's comments. The notice at the bottom of the page says that the comment is mine. I don't want it on your computer, so now I can call your ISP and claim that you have some of my content on your computer. Two of the other people on here can do the same, and now you don't have the internet any more.

      Yeah, that's a BS example, and wouldn't stand up in court. But it doesn't need to. All you need is three allegations, and you're done.
        • by nabsltd (1313397) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @04:13PM (#27140993)

          So anyone who doesnt agree with you and might think that infringing copyright is a bad thing MUST be 'astroturfing'. What a closed-minded view.

          First, WOOSH!

          To explain...the point is that the "astroturfer" is as guilty of actually astroturfing as the "file sharer" is of actually sharing copyrighted material in a manner that is not permitted. At this point, both are just accusations, but at least here on /. there is a way to allow the accused to prove the accusation is false.

          Most of these "three strikes" copyright laws aren't even "guilty until proven innocent". They are "guilty if any large corporation that holds copyrights says you are".

          Since there are no provisions in these laws for false accusations, the correct solution is to find the IP addresses of any of the people in power who passed these laws and accuse them of sharing your copyrighted content.

  • by DreamerFi (78710) <john@NoSpAM.sinteur.com> on Tuesday March 10 2009, @12:56PM (#27137749) Homepage

    Simple. Accuse prominent law-makers of copyright violations.

    Three times.

    Except for the french president, he only needs two more [techdirt.com].

    There probably needs to be made a ruckus for each law-maker that needs to be disconnected, but after a few successful stories in the media, they'll either write exceptions for themselves into law (and that can easily be used against them next elections) or the law is dropped.

    • Exactly. In addition to the abuses this leaves ready for use, what good is it when people find another way to share files that can't be detected by the ISP?

      The **AA et al need to get a new business model, a real one, and stop messing around and abusing the laws.

    • by johannesg (664142) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:16PM (#27138113)

      Don't forget big corporations. They are legally people, after all, so after three violations they too can be disconnected.

  • by elrous0 (869638) * on Tuesday March 10 2009, @12:59PM (#27137817)
    So who do we get to appeal to when we've been falsely accused. The power company can't cut off my electricity without some legal recourse. The city can't turn off my water or sewer without some legal recourse. Who do I appeal to when my only ISP shuts me off because someone spoofed my IP address or botted my machine, or hijacked my router?
    • by areusche (1297613) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:10PM (#27138021)
      This presents some interesting repercussions. What is stopping me from torrenting files over say my employer's internet connection? Or some poor soul I find while I'm walking around with my computer? Will the three strike rule apply to corporations with thousands of employees? My office has a wireless connection without any type of authentication (unsecure public wifi). All it asks are for your email, which personally is zxc@xvv.com. Will ISPs kill the internet connection for them?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Isn't that exactly what they do when you fail to pay the bills? Maybe the situation is different in the US, but in most countries service providers can cut you off without a court order when you break the contract.
  • want to stop it? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    If you want to stop it, just stop downloading.

    Are you honestly telling me that you have downloaded music or movies e.t.c. and actually believe you deserve it because it's there?

    If you really do, I think you need a slap.

    TPB and stuff are great and it is funny... but how many people really think deep down that they are correct?

    I agree that one download does not mean one lost sale e.t.c. and that half of the stuff these companies say is crap, but it does not mean I deserve to download anything I see.

    • by DrLang21 (900992) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:28PM (#27138343)
      It's not an issue of what you do and don't deserve. We can argue about the ethics of TPB's business model all day and there's certainly fair argument for it being unethical. However, unethical != illegal. That's the problem here. If you want to shut people off the Internet for copyright violation, that's fine, but you had better damn well prove in a court of law that the defendant indeed violated copyright. Actually, since the punishment is no longer just monetary, you had better damn well prove in a criminal court (where the burden of proof is much more stringent) that the defendant violated copyright. The thing that has been pissing people off more than anything is abuse of the system. Using questionable evidence, flawed arguments, and outrageous damage claims is what has set most people against the recording industry. If you can prove that I shot off a Metallica mp3 to 50 people and you want somewhere between $50 to $100 in damages, that's reasonable. Demanding $100,000 with no evidence of distribution is an absurd violation of due process.
  • So in other words, we are being Zerg-rushed with 3-strike laws?

  • Really, three strikes and you are out is straight from a game someone sat down and created out of thin air one day. Now people are basing laws on the concept? WTF?

    • by EEBaum (520514) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:43PM (#27138559) Homepage
      On the contrary, the significance of the number three is much older indeed than baseball.

      For example:

      then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.

      -Book of Armaments, Chapter 9 (excerpt)

    • Indeed. It should be based on bowling: with 10 strikes you get two more.

      Or use the rules of Brockian Ultra Cricket. The setting is already set up for apologizing at a distance.

  • You might be able to fight this by Slipping provisions in privacy legislation to prevent record keeping beyond 3 months for this sort of thing. This catches the most egregious offenders, but works no "corruption of blood"

  • 3 strikes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Improv (2467) <pgunn@dachte.org> on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:12PM (#27138045) Homepage Journal

    3 strikes is more appropriate for a cultural struggle, which is what this is. Many of us firmly believe that intellectual property law is invalid, and that there is no duty to society to follow it. Both we and industries built on IP are trying to convince the public towards our perspective, and the "3 strikes" law gives some limited protection to people who have only heard our side and don't know the legal risks.

    In the end, what we hope is that instead of simply "learning and accepting" the concept of intellectual property, people will just be more careful not to get caught, and that eventually we can remove copyright and patent protections entirely from our legal system. In the meantime, it's nice not to have people have their lives ruined in this cultural/legal struggle.

    By analogy to other struggles over notions of human dignity and autonomy, if people who were part of the Underground Railroad had a 3-strikes rule, it would've afforded them some protection without requiring a complete victory .. yet.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Indeed, it gives the music industry enormous leverage. The next time they go to an ISP or University, and say: "Give us the names behind these IP addresses" and the ISP or University balks, they can just say: "In that case, we will just issue a strike against your entire address space, since from our point of view any of your customers/students may be infringing and you are not cooperating with us." Two more times, they are out of business. It's an atom bomb. Of course, they will just buckle and give them t

  • by RonBurk (543988) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @02:01PM (#27138881) Homepage Journal
    Scenario: the wrong geek gets 2 strikes, gets mad, and fires up a botnet (or just happens to have, say, $20,000 laying around to rent an existing one for a few runs). The botnet causes a significant percentage of users in some country to start getting their "strike warnings". As a result, the fallacy of the idea that IP addresses identify human beings is exposed (or the fallacy that ISPs invest the slightest effort in controlling botnets, if you like).
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Who needs a botnet? The University of Washington has already proven this could be done with just one computer and one fake GET request (through spoofing an IP address, apparently the RIAA/MediaSentry doesn't seem to be too interested in even checking whether the GET request is valid or not). Now just imagine one computer and just one entire month of broadcasting fake GET requests to suspected RIAA/MediaSentry servers, you could easily incriminate millions of people you didn't know that way, but I doubt that
  • A surveillance society to keep copyrights in place is not acceptable.

    If there has to be a choice between surveillance on all civilian communications and ceasing the copyright regime, I choose ceasing copyrights.

  • Become anonymous (Score:4, Informative)

    by Slashdotgirl (912338) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @02:20PM (#27139215)
    The following are just some of the programs, which provide a level of both encryption and anonymous communication for Internet usage:
    • Tor: Onion-based routing that acts as a proxy layer between the client computer and the Tor network. http://tor.eff.org/ [eff.org]
    • I2P: Also known as the Invisible Internet Project. The network is regarded as a message based system. http://www.i2p.net/ [i2p.net]
    • FreeNet: is a distributed information and storage retrieval system designed to address the concerns of privacy. Freenet is designed to be anonymous and totally peer to peer. http://freenetproject.org/ [freenetproject.org]
    • GNUnet: is a P2P network that can support many different forms of peer-to-peer applications. http://gnunet.org/ [gnunet.org]
    • Open VPN: is where one can use software that encrypts your traffic on a server created in another country instead of the one you are in. http://openvpn.net/ [openvpn.net]

    There are other programs and if you do not want others knowing what "traffic" you carry then you would be wise to use them.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:04PM (#27137913)

      What exactly is the problem? You break the law, you are punished. Hating on PITA DRM is one thing, but arguing against punishment when you are plainly violating copyright is just stupid.

      I don't like your attitude. One sec while I fire off some copyright violations to your isp.

    • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:08PM (#27137993) Journal
      In many of these cases, "You break the law" is actually "The RIAA(or local equivalent) accuses you of breaking the law". That is the big problem.

      A situation where you can be punished on the strength of a mere accusation, without any legal standards of evidence or proof, is an absolute travesty.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        we need a online equivalent of a Lech Walesa. Look at what came out of one simple strike in a shipyard.....
    • by spikenerd (642677) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:13PM (#27138071)
      I hereby accuse you of terrorism. Would you like to face the punishment now, or do you think that due process is important now?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Your argument contradicts reality.
      Let me explain...

      Don't break the law and you aren't in trouble.

      This is exceptionally unlikely for nearly everyone to do.
      First off, if you are not a lawyer by profession, you already lost at that game. All of us reading this have broken probably around a hundred laws just today in our normal daily lives. You included.

      Most of those laws aren't even known, occasionally even by the police! They are still public record and 'on the books', thus are law.

      Did you know in the stat

      • by digitig (1056110) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:57PM (#27138809)
        No, the problem is standard of proof, at least as described. On the other hand, if there is an appeal process and the accused has to prove that they have not made any illegal downloads then you are right, the issue is with the burden of proof.
      • by aaandre (526056) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @01:57PM (#27138811)

        Three, copyright law has gone way off the rails to the point where it is significantly impairing free speech, innovation, and creativity. Century-long copyright terms, takedown notices to block speech one disagrees with, DRM that seizes control of communications technology, and a tremendous concentration of cultural ownership in the hands of a few companies are bad enough. Strengthening the enforcement of illegitimate and unjust laws only increases the injustice.

        I concur. The copyright law is a bright example of laws not serving the people but lobbyists. And, it's going to get worse and worse and worse, until *we, the people* wake up and make a shift in governance which puts the legislative, judicial and executive branches of the government in their place, serving the people.

        Serving you and me, listening to our needs, proactively finding ways to support us and make our lives easier, cheaper, healthier and happier.

        Currently, *money* is the most important thing to the government. And, government has found ways to collect its money from us, without accountability from our side. We have no control about giving our money or where our money goes. Lobbyists do have that control and they use it to steer the government.

        When a shift happens that makes *us, the people, and our well-being* the most important thing for our government, then we will see policies that serve our interests.

        This shift will not happen in the government before it happens for most individuals.

        What we are seeing is the government acting as a greedy, insecure, vengeful child-king. Our last president was a wonderful illustration of that.

        Our own insecurity, greed and separation manifest on a large scale.

        Our laws naturally become more and more oppressive until we can't take it anymore and then get eased just enough to avoid violent response. After a while this is the new norm and a more oppressive version gets pushed again, and again and again. We are cornered and the walls are closing in, all the time.

        This is how you boil a frog, this is how you enslave people under the illusion of freedom.

        And, of course, there's always the power... http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/19.html [george-orwell.org]

    • by CodeBuster (516420) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @03:07PM (#27139951)

      Such legislation would cause more economic loss than the actual infringement (businesses included).

      Which is why the ISPs will challenge the law in court when and if the MAFIAA attempts to bring suit for failure to "cut off" a customer(s). If you were a business and some third party, who is not a paying customer, came to your place of business waving some piece of paper in your face and told you to "cut off" certain customers and never serve them again (resulting in a loss for your business) would you just do it? Certainly not, and neither will the ISPs. The negative PR from their customer base and the prospect of losing tens of thousands of dollars a month in subscription fees will put ISPs in a fighting mood, lawsuits be damned. A lawsuit might take years to work its way through the courts and in the meantime the ISP is losing tens of thousands of dollars per month in subscriber fees from customers that it has been forced to "cut off". The MAFIAA will be put in its place when it starts costing the large ISPs such as AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint/Nextel real money. It will be like when SCO foolishly attempted to sue IBM and Novell, the MAFIAA will be swiftly crushed by the much larger telecom industry and their lobbyists/attorneys.

Shame is an improper emotion invented by pietists to oppress the human race. -- Robert Preston, Toddy, "Victor/Victoria"