How Do Militaries Treat Their Nerds? 426
An anonymous reader writes "Cyber Warfare is a hot topic these days. A major reorganization may be looming, but a critical component is a culture where technologists can thrive. Two recent articles address this subject. Lieutenant Colonel Greg Conti and Colonel Buck Surdu recently published an article in the latest DoD IA Newsletter stating that 'The Army, Navy, and Air Force all maintain cyberwarfare components, but these organizations exist as ill-fitting appendages (PDF, pg. 14) that attempt to operate in inhospitable cultures where technical expertise is not recognized, cultivated, or completely understood.' In his TaoSecurity Blog Richard Bejtlich added 'When I left the Air Force in early 2001, I was the 31st of the last 32 eligible company grade officers in the Air Force Information Warfare Center to separate from the Air Force rather than take a new nontechnical assignment.' So, Slashdot, how has the military treated you and your technical friends? What changes are needed?"
If the military sucks, don't joint 'em. (Score:5, Insightful)
If the military needs nerds, they can always hire civilian contractors.
Alternatively, there are certain nerds who enjoy military culture and do fine there.
Whats a compiler? (Score:4, Insightful)
In my ten years of military service I cannot recall a single person besides myself that
even knew what a compiler was. The data systems guys did know how to run some reports
and such but had zero knowledge of anything more difficult than that.
Anything requiring some sort of advanced knowledge was contracted out and for good reason, the
military structure is not designed to facilitate such personnel. Anyone with such advanced skills
cannot be retained in the military.
A question of disciplin? (Score:3, Insightful)
I can imagine that the "Sir, yes sir" variant of military discipline could clash somewhat with the geekish type with mountain boots, beach shorts and half the shirt hanging out :-)
The thing is, there are many kinds of discipline - just because you don't dress sharpish and are servile to officers doesn't mean that you are undisciplined. I would argue that it takes a hell of a lot of discipline to stick with a difficult piece of code all through the night and the next day too.
Re:Contract. (Score:5, Insightful)
No excuse not give respect (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps the submitter or nerds in general need to realize one thing. Your technical experience is recognized, that does not mean you get a pass on showing recognition to those who hold a higher rank. Too many times its a "us versus "the man" attitude that causes the grief. It is a wonderfully working system with little need to change, the real change is required of those entering it and realizing that their technical knowledge does not impart superiority over those who out rank them.
Yeah you will run into arseholes who will dismiss your opinion even if your right but that happens in the real world as well. I think Hollywood has really given geeks a bad idea of what to expect in both extremes.
True tech talent is shunned (Score:4, Insightful)
As a degreed electrical engineer and Air Force communications *engineering* officer I was expressly confined to assignments within that narrow career field. In a service dominated by flying ("rated") officers that was the kiss of death, career-wise. I was passed over for promotion again and again because I "lacked the breadth of assignments and experience required for advancement". My classmates with history and general studies degrees got the maintenance, operations, and command assignments and promotions I could not.
Now retired from the Air Force and working as an IT contractor, my skills are very much in demand. My salary is probably double that of my peers that got "definitely promote" ratings in uniform.
In my estimation there is absolutely no possibility that the military will ever adopt -- let alone embrace -- the computer nerd culture needed to develop any serious IT capability of its own. Its leadership is too narcissistic and firmly rooted in the past to allow it.
Adapt and overcome (Score:4, Insightful)
The military supports tech nerds as much as anyone else. You have to learn how to adapt yourself to what the military wants, rather than waiting for the military to adapt to you.
I've been actively practicing computer nerdity for a little over 15 years now, and what I've noticed in my last 7 years with the Army is that I can practice whatever I want during my free time, but applying my technical expertise during work hours was often ignored or even actively fought against until I started applying my skills directly to the job.
For example, I wanted to write code more, and maybe even design my own applications. I wanted to learn how to use microsoft tools with databases and whatnot. This never worked because it required too many changes to the system that was already in place, and it had a negligible gain to anyone besides myself. All I wanted was to learn. Eventually I ditched my idea and instead focused on learning VBA (visual basic for applications) to write macros that would drastically reduce redundancy in our office. For that I got some form of praise. Another example would be in Kuwait, where I used my photoshop skills to do graphics work for our unit. For this I got more recognition.
It's difficult to be selfish in the military. It's also difficult to work in a civilian job that has no overall purpose except to ship a couple more units of Product X.
Officers are Managerial Generalists (Score:2, Insightful)
What Mr. Bejtlich does seem to understand is that the officer corps in the military exists to provide a cadre of managerial generalists. That isn't to imply that managers don't need to learn and understand the work they supervise, but a good officer shouldn't be tied to a specific specialty. A good officer should become reasonably proficient in the skills required for his/her current assignment, while being open to learning an entirely new skill set as required by a subsequent assignment.
The military DOES absolutely need technical experts, but that's what the enlisted and civilian ranks are for. If every officer restricted themselves to learning about a specific specialty, you wouldn't have anyone competent to fills the ranks of generals and admirals.
Re:Actually, not bad. (Score:2, Insightful)
Unfortunately, it was the contracting company I worked for that insisted on playing politics rather than getting the job done.
How do you think that company got the contract to begin with? Military contracts can be very lucrative, and I think some companies would screw their mother with a diseased horse to get one.
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Badly... (Score:2, Insightful)
The army just needs to expand the warrant office program more and problems like this will go away. Most of the time a warrant officer is the best type of person for these positions.
IT Meritocracy, Military Senioritocracy (Score:1, Insightful)
In the military, it's important to have a clear unbreakable chain of command, or people die. In IT endeavors, it's more important to have the best ideas float to the top.
Combine the military senioritocracy with IT people, and you get managers that aren't open to different ideas. Projects are run with a "take that hill" mentality.
It's amazing they get anything done.
Re:Contract. (Score:2, Insightful)
Sad? It's great! It means the Army is doing a fine job of fulfilling its most essential function -- enriching the stockholder class.
Oh, come on, surely you don't believe that old-fashioned sentimental nonsense about the armed forces existing to protect the nation and its people? The U.S. military has been protecting commercial interests since the late 1800s. The military-industrial complex that grew up in the early 20th century just made war more of a racket [ratical.org]. Turning military functions directly over to the industrial side of the complex merely improves the process of removing money from working citizens and putting it in the pockets of the owning classes. It's a great business model!
(Sure, soldiers get electrocuted by shoddy KBR workmanship [go.com], but c'mon, we can't be worried about the lives of grunts like that any more than we worry about Iraqis or Afghanis who get blown up [antiwar.com]. Profits before people, after all, so long as they're not our people.)
Re:Contract. (Score:3, Insightful)
Look at it this way:
If the Army does it, it goes in the Army budget, comes out of the Army budget and goes to someone in the Army.
If the Army outsources it, it goes in the Army budget comes out of the Army budget and goes to some contractor friend of a congresscritter who wants defense money but doesn't want to be in the Army. If you ignore the Army as the middle man this lets politicians give money to the people they want to give money to, in military sized amounts, without looking like they are giving it to them, cause, ya know, they gave it to the Army.
Why pay some Private to stand at a gate when you can hire your buddy's security firm to send someone to do it at twice the price?
Re:If the military sucks, don't joint 'em. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How Do Militaries Treat Their Nerds? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How Do Militaries Treat Their Nerds? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stop with the religious aspects? (Score:5, Insightful)
The holy-rollers disparage any knowledge that doesn't come from the Bible.
Bullshit. I know many Christians (although I am not one myself), and you know what they believe? They believe that scientific advances are a GOOD THING, because we're getting to understand God's creation better. Indeed, various prominent scientists have been Christians, and I think it was Maxwell who characterized his work as "thinking God's thoughts after him".
Don't get me wrong. Many religious people are great workers. Give them a job to do, convince them that Jesus or Allah will be pleased and they work their butts off. They just don't have leadership skills.
Again, bullshit. Religious people are just like any other people: some are great leaders, some aren't really meant for it, but will excel at their work nonetheless. And, just like any other person, they don't do their work just because "Jesus or Allah will be pleased" (although the Christians I know do believe that working hard is a virtue God favors), they do it because they actually enjoy it. Imagine that!?
Holy fuck, the atheist trolling and intolerance of religion is getting bad here.
Re:If the military sucks, don't joint 'em. (Score:5, Insightful)
There's one more important thing you earned, besides that measely 14.4k per year: respect.
Some civvie contractors may never earn it, regardless of their salaries.
USAF (Score:2, Insightful)
My first year at the Pentagon I was a telephone operator. I had gone through 6 weeks of Basic and 3 months of non-stop technical training for Computer Operations (Sys Admin on the civilian side) and I was answering telephones from 11pm to 7am. Needless to say I was very disgruntled at my initial assignment and it showed. I fortunately got through my evaluations without a mark and never got into too much trouble but it was apparent I was a malcontent. Most of the 3c0x1's stationed at the Pentagon (used to) go through the switch first, it's all civilian now, thank God. From there they would evaluate you and put you in a different IT shop. My friend who put in a bit of effort now and again worked network security for 3 years. I got stuck working on a 30 year old mainframe, processing message traffic for the remainder of my time at the Pentagon.
Fortunately I was given an assignment to Langley where I did Sys Ad work for an Intel Squadron. I worked on all types of equipment with applications and systems that you don't see outside of government operations. I saw that if I showed up on time, uniform straight and put in some effort day in and day out I was rewarded accordingly. The Major I worked for (not directly he was 4 people higher in my chain) noticed my work, said it was appreciated and put me in charge of an even better network with MUCH higher visibility. I was in charge, I had 3 people that worked for me and if they screwed up, it was my screw up. We did everything from scripts to SAN to Email, UNIX, Linux, you name it. The only thing we didn't do was routers, switches and cables. Life was good, my job was great.
In 2006, when it was time for my second re-enlistment, I tested the waters with my resume and I was astounded that I got offers in the 6 figures with only 4 real years of experience (plus an AS in Information Systems and a TS/SCI clearence). I got out and took a job as a contractor for the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency [nga.mil].
Ironically, I stayed in Virginia for 8 years in the Air Force, minus the occasional training at Keesler AFB, MI. When I worked for the NGA, I went all over the place, Japan, UK, all over the US, etc. I attribute the success, I had, to the hard learning I had in the military.
Basically I would say that, at least in the AF, if you show up to work, look good, act professional and do your job, you will generally excel. There are of course exceptions to this, however overall, I think it compares very much to how you could, or could not, be treated in the civilian world.
Re:How Do Militaries Treat Their Nerds? (Score:3, Insightful)
As a taxpayer (Score:1, Insightful)
It's totally worth it to outsource this stuff at $125k/yr. That is surely a better deal than getting an enlisted man to do his job. I mean, why stop here? Let's outsource more and more right up until we can outsource the actual fighting. [wikipedia.org] And yes, I know they changed their name. Doesn't matter...they didn't change how the deal works.
The military today is vastly different than your military 20 years ago. Our govt TELLS us it's the same but anyone with half a brain can see it is not. The Military Industrial Complex is doing nothing but looting the coffers.
The American people have been and still are being fucked. Part of the reason we spend so damn much on our military is because of contracting. And each year that goes by, we get a little less in return.
In the old days, you told a private to do KP (kitchen patrol - think: peeling potatoes). That cost the country about a private's wages and salary to get the job done in the kitchen. Now, we contract "food specialists" > $30/hr to make the food. And we contract the food supplier at a nice 100% markup on his food. And we contract the people to SERVE the food. And we contract the ice cream company for dessert. All at a ridiculous cost to the taxpayer. The end result is that we pay $100 for something that used to cost $10. And inflation is not the reason. Looting, corruption, and a sense of entitlement (by the military ind complex) is.
And people wonder why the avg US citizen has less and less faith in his government. It's no surprise to this layman.
Re:Nerds end wars faster than soldiers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How Do Militaries Treat Their Nerds? (Score:2, Insightful)
All in all you got about 5h sleep each night, but the floors were perfectly polished, the bathrooms were clean etc all with zero time apparently devoted to the process. All completely chickenshit stuff, but it built up a spirit of cooperation between soldiers headed for different trades very well.
Did it never occur to you that the entire purpose of this chickenshit stuff was spcifically to teach you cooperation to the point that it would come automatically in a situation where it was necessary for survival? Really.