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Graphics Software Hardware

New Graphics Firm Promises Real-Time Ray Tracing 136

arcticstoat writes "A new graphics company called Caustic Graphics reckons it's uncovered the secret of real-time ray tracing with a chip that 'enables your CPU/GPU to shade with rasterization-like efficiency.' The new chip basically off-loads ray tracing calculations and then sends the data to your GPU and CPU, enabling your PC to shade a ray-traced scene much more quickly. Caustic's management team isn't afraid to rubbish the efforts of other graphics companies when it comes to ray tracing. 'Some technology vendors claim to have solved the accelerated ray tracing problem by using traditional algorithms along with GPU hardware,' says Caustic. However, the company adds that 'if you've ever seen them demo their solutions you'll notice that while results may be fast — the image quality is underwhelming, far below the quality that ray tracing is known for.' According to Caustic, this is because the advanced shading and lighting effects usually seen in ray-traced scenes, such as caustics and refraction, can't be accelerated on a standard GPU because it can't process incoherent rays in hardware. Conversely, Caustic claims that the CausticOne 'thrives in incoherent ray tracing situations: encouraging the use of multiple secondary rays per pixel.' The company is also introducing its own API, called CausticGL, which is based on OpenGL/GLSL, which will feature Caustic's unique ray tracing extensions."
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New Graphics Firm Promises Real-Time Ray Tracing

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  • Re:2009 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @07:26PM (#27188083) Journal

    2009 is the year of the ray traced desktop.

    Can't wait for the ray-traced BSD desktop version of Duke Nukem Invents The Flying Car.
         

  • by MostAwesomeDude ( 980382 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @07:27PM (#27188095) Homepage

    They've advertised Linux support too, but I haven't heard anything from these guys. Unless they're like nVidia and sit around killing kittens all day, it would be a good idea for them to actually do some research and figure out how GLX and DRI work. Even the ATI closed-source drivers still respect the GLX way of life.

    (nVidia replaces the entire DRI stack. DDX, GLX, DRI, DRM, all custom. fglrx doesn't replace GLX. Just in case you were wondering.)

  • Re:"Caustic"? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by flewp ( 458359 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @07:35PM (#27188193)
    Er, I'm an idiot. I wasn't thinking, and realized just after hitting 'submit' you were just providing another example, apologies good sir.
  • Re:Shitty summary! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by arcticstoat ( 993717 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @07:43PM (#27188291) Homepage
    That's kind of my fault for submitting such a long summary in the first place - the original I submitted to the Firehose makes it clear what the quote is referring to, but that submission was obviously too long for a general summary. I take your point about copying and pasting, though - I'll be less lazy next time :)
  • by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @07:50PM (#27188361)

    Like with anything, I call vaporware until they show real silicon. Not because I think they are lying, most companies don't. However there are plenty of overly ambitious companies out there. They think they have figured out some amazing way to leap ahead and get funding to start work... only to realize it's way harder than they believed.

    A great example was the Elbrus E2K chip. Dunno if you remember that, it was back in 2000. A Russian group said they were going to make the Next Big Thing(tm) in processors. It'd kick the crap out of Intel. Well obviously this didn't come to pass. The reason wasn't that they were scammers, in fact Elbrus is a line of supercomputers made in Russia. The problem was they didn't know what they were doing with regards to this chip.

    Their idea was more or less to put their Elbrus 3 supercomputer on to a chip... Ok fine but the things that you can do on that scale, don't always work on on the microscale. There are all sorts of new considerations. So while their thing was all nice in theory on a simulator, it was impossible to fab.

    Intel and AMD aren't amazing because of the chips they design, they are amazing because they can then actually fab those chips economically. You can design something that'll smoke a Core i7 in simulations. However you probably can't make it a real chip.

    This smells of the same sort of thing to me. Notice that they have press releases and some shiny demo pictures, but it was clearly done on a software simulator. Ok well shit, I can raytrace pretty pictures. That doesn't prove anything. Their card? Apparently not real yet, the picture of it is, well, just a raytrace.

    So who knows? Maybe they really do have some amazing shit in the pipeline. Doesn't matter though, they've gotta make it real before it matters. nVidia releases pretty pictures too. Difference is the pictures of the cards are of actual cards, and the pictures rendered are done on the actual hardware.

    I am just never impressed by sites heavy on the press releases and marketing, and light on the technical details, SDKs, engineering hardware pics, and so on.

  • by j1m+5n0w ( 749199 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @07:51PM (#27188369) Homepage Journal
    The article sounds like a press release, and leaves a lot of questions unanswered.
    • What sort of performance should we expect?
    • What are the limits on scene complexity?
    • Can their product handle dynamic scenes?
    • Is the process of sorting a collection of triangles into an acceleration structure done in software, or in hardware?
    • Do they support photon mapping, metropolis light transport, radiosity, path tracing, or any other global illumination algorithm?
    • How does the performance compare with high-performance software renderers like Arauna (open source) or OpenRT (closed source)?
    • How does the image quality compare with high-quality renderers like pbrt (open source)?
    • What geometric primitives are supported?
    • What sort of textures are supported?
    • What algorithms do they use? MLRTA? Packet tracing?
    • Do they use a Kd-tree, a BIH tree, BVH, or something else entirely?

    I shall remain skeptical until more information is forthcoming.

  • by flewp ( 458359 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @07:53PM (#27188393)
    I'm fully aware of that. Notice I didn't say we've moved on from ray tracing to GI. I said we've moved on from "SIMPLE" ray tracing - the operative word being "simple". Perhaps I should have been more clear and said "we've moved on from just basic raytracing to more advanced and accurate methods of ray tracing", but I figured my point was clear enough.
  • Re:Shitty summary! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 13, 2009 @07:54PM (#27188395)

    Perhaps, but it's mostly ScuttleMonkey's fault for posting such a misleading summary.

  • by master_p ( 608214 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @09:01PM (#27189017)

    For something as ambitious as they have, it's very strange that their web site has no demos, absolutely nothing, of their products. No pictures, no videos, nothing.

  • by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Friday March 13, 2009 @10:27PM (#27189599) Homepage
    Thanks for the explanation. However, names that require explanation are not good choices for the names of companies.

    I remember when I first saw a very poorly drawn, shaky image of an animal and read that it was a Gnu, and read how clever the name was considered to be since it was, they said, "recursive": GNU is Not Unix.

    It didn't bother the enthusiasts that most people in the world can't pronounce the name and have never seen a Gnu.

    They found someone with artistic ability to make a better image of a GNU [pasteris.it], but I've seen no evidence that anyone with technical knowledge realizes the depth of the self-defeat in choosing an obscure reference to an obscure animal.

    To most people the word "caustic" means only "capable of burning, corroding, or dissolving".
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 14, 2009 @06:34AM (#27191321)

    There's plenty of 'realistic' renderers out there. If you mean 'doing it exactly as mother nature does', then no.. But if you look at something like the Maxwell Renderer, where you specify surface properties according to actual physical characteristics, etc. and the renderer itself calculates only by brute force (to tricks to speed things up - which invariably cause accuracy errors), then you get pretty darn close to a 'realistic' renderer.

  • Re:Big deal. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by owlstead ( 636356 ) on Saturday March 14, 2009 @11:23AM (#27192619)

    Even my MSX computer did real time raytracing like a champ, providing that all the pixels were produced from a 2D non-reflective surface using a 90 degree angle. Of course you had a limited color space, but otherwise everything run just smoothly.

    Kidding aside, I suppose it's how far you want to take it. Amiga or MSX are not interesting anymore for about 90% of the things they did. The one exception is probably playing retro games.

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