CIA Expert Decries E-Voting Security 178
ISoldat53 sends this quote from McClatchy DC:
"The CIA, which has been monitoring foreign countries' use of electronic voting systems, has reported apparent vote-rigging schemes in Venezuela, Macedonia and Ukraine and a raft of concerns about the machines' vulnerability to tampering. Appearing last month before a US Election Assistance Commission field hearing in Orlando, Fla., a CIA cybersecurity expert suggested that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and his allies fixed a 2004 election recount, an assertion that could further roil US relations with the Latin leader. ... Stigall said that most Web-based ballot systems had proved to be insecure. The commission has been criticized for giving states more than $1 billion to buy electronic equipment without first setting performance standards. Numerous computer-security experts have concluded that US systems can be hacked, and allegations of tampering in Ohio, Florida and other swing states have triggered a campaign to require all voting machines to produce paper audit trails."
Venezuela (Score:2, Interesting)
According to international observers such as the Carter Center there were no vote-rigging schemes in Venezuela.
Venezuela's e-voting machines have a paper trail -and- they do a partial hand count for verification.
On the other hand, e-voting in the US has none of that (including international observers).
Fact is though that "Hugo Chavez does not have US interests at heart" (- US State Dept).
Re:Remember kids, its only fair if they agree with (Score:1, Interesting)
We actually are supposed to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
I think the founders understood the people enough not to allow for democracy.
They understood and specifically designed it to prevent government for making certain laws because they knew enough people were willing to give up all their rights if we let them.
Re:That was I was thinking. (Score:5, Interesting)
The critical part is the US Government committed a coup to Hugo Chavez in Venezuela in April 2002, installing a dictator.
You cannot trust the information of the organization who tried removing the Democratically elected leader of a country outright.
Re:Remember kids, its only fair if they agree with (Score:3, Interesting)
Real Democracy would be a good idea. We have a representative government to keep the will of the people in line. It was intentional, and successful.
As for political systems, the one that seemed to work the best was Anarchism in Spain.
"Swing state" (Score:1, Interesting)
"Swing states" are a media fabrication to enforce the belief in the two-party system.
Re:Remember kids, its only fair if they agree with (Score:3, Interesting)
I really like what Churchill said about all this:
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
Ukraine and vote rigging (Score:3, Interesting)
I was in Ukraine during the Orange Revolution. I had not planned on being there during this, it just sort of happened while I was already there. I remember seeing voting returns on TV and everybody knew that the announced results were fraudulent. One of the most populous oblasts (this is basically the Ukrainian version of an American state) said that 99% of the voters voted for Yanukovich, the guy who ended up losing the eventual re-vote. Imagine if you will that in the 2008 elections if California said that 99% of voters voted for Obama or if Texas had reported that 99% of its voters voted for McCain and you have an idea of crazy the fraud was. It wasn't even believable. Basically whoever tried to cheat knew that Yanukovich could not win a fair election, so they turned in impossible vote totals for him in the oblasts where he was expected to win and so that when all the votes were counted, he would have the most votes. It's generally considered that Ukraine now has honest elections as a result of the 2004 election fraud.
Re:Democracy (Score:3, Interesting)
On a somewhat related point, has anyone else noticed that the CowboyNeal option has disappeared from the recent Polls?
Who is this CIA "expert"? (Score:1, Interesting)
I am from Macedonia, and there is no electronic voting system implemented here, and thanks god for that. We had elections, presidential and municipal, 4 days ago so I should know best :). But it seams that Macedonians are experts in tuning the results by means of threats and pressures, mostly by forcing you to vote for the ruling party, by telling you that if you don't do that, you will loose your job. And how do they get prove that you did what you were told? Simple! On the last elections:
1. You take a picture of the voting paper with your mobile phone
2. Instead of circling the "right" candidate you are "given" special mark that you must use, heart, square, diamond etc.
The second problem our system apparently has is that here in Macedonia there are ~2 million registered citizens, and 1.8 million of registered voters, something that is most obvious not realistic number of voters.
The only electronic voting system we have here, is in the parliament, and it is often misused when the ruling parties lack a quorum for their sessions. So you often have Members of the parliament absent from the sessions, but their electronic ID cards registered in the system as if there is a quorum for voting.
US Systems also hacked (Score:5, Interesting)
In Utah, Emery County clerk Bruce Funk had independent tests done which found multiple ways in which these machines could be exploited and Diebold fought to silence him and attempted to charge the state $40,000 to 're-certify' them. Then he was forced to resign for having them tested. It is obvious that Diebold knows about the issues and is acting to suppress the information. Now reports are coming in that choosing 'straight party' for Democrat sometimes gives votes to Republicans or does not count them at all straight from the Diebold factory. I voted straight party during the last election. Do you know how that makes me feel? It seems like some of them may be rigged right from the factory and there are no checks and balances in place to ensure that they aren't.
The argument that a 'hacker' could not have time during voting to modify these is just common sense and just does not stand up. It is not a 'hacker' during voting time that I am worried about. Anyone with ulterior motives and access to these machines for even five minutes can sway the election. This is such a simple process that it sickens me.
It doesn't even need to actually happen, the idea that it IS POSSIBLE is enough to disenfranchise voters. I feel helpless to stop it. It is bad enough that here in Utah my democratic vote is almost good for nothing, and then I have to fight the uphill battle on a easily hackable machine. I have worked with electronics my whole life and these machines are less secure than my Xbox360 and iPhone.
Will you please help fight to ban electronic voting? Write your senators, congressmen, and president. Please, someone has to stand up for the rights of the voters. We cannot depend on companies like Diebold and others to elect our officials. This is not paranoia, we can not trust these machines. Once it becomes possible to 'buy' an election we will never get this country back from those who stole it. I fear it may already be too late.
Re:A secret ballot cannot be done from your PC (Score:2, Interesting)
By your standard voting by mail should be ruled out as well then, right?
Nothing new here (Score:2, Interesting)
There is a good writeup on 8 people arrested here in the US for tampering with electronic votes.
"KY Election Officials Arrested, Charged With 'Changing Votes at E-Voting Machines'"
Give me a paper ballot and keep a paper trail.
Re:A secret ballot cannot be done from your PC (Score:2, Interesting)
For technical details, browse the Estonian National Electoral Committee's homepage [www.vvk.ee].