FBI Seizes All Servers In Dallas Data Center 629
1sockchuck writes "FBI agents have raided a Dallas data center, seizing servers at a company called Core IP Networks. The company's CEO has posted a message saying the FBI confiscated all its customer servers, including gear belonging to companies that are almost certainly not under suspicion. The FBI isn't saying what it's after, but there are reports that it's related to video piracy, sparking unconfirmed speculation that the probe is tied to the leaking of Wolverine."
Ye gods (Score:2, Interesting)
If this is true and equipment totally unrelated to the suspected parties (apart from being in the same building) was also confiscated then every data-centre in America could be shut-down due to one badly behaved server hosted in it?!
According to my (cop) Digital Forensics Prof... (Score:5, Interesting)
When a police officer seizes computer hardware from a business in the course of an investigation, they can be held civilly liable for any loss or damage caused to the business by their actions.
At least thats how it is for Pennsylvania State Police.
Re:All servers!!!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
This is exactly why we relocated to Chile six months ago. We had already moved to the end of a dirt road in the mountains of Mexico, but that wasn't far enough away. Now we're at the end of a much, much nicer dirt road in a country that is not ruled by mad-dog copyright censors. (And where you can rent a furnished, 5-bedroom house with cedar paneling on 2 acres of land for US$400.)
Not that we are into downloading copyrighted material; far from it, we generate our own material and publish it under a Creative Commons license. But there are such things as principles...
Re:Incredible (Score:4, Interesting)
It's actually kind of add.
Normally they get a warrant and work with the data centers. I wonder if they tried that and he refused leaving them little choice? That is , of course, speculation.
Just the man power, cost, and effort is extraordinary doing it this way.
Of course we need to remember what we have is one side of the story.
Even from a wacky government conspiracy point of view this doesn't make sense.
Of course, it doesn't look like it was a lot of servers, so that may have played into it.
Alas, you're going to need a new constitution (Score:5, Interesting)
Eldred v Ashcroft holding was that a copyright law (in that example the one that extended Mickey's copyright protection) is presumed constitutional if it doesn't explicitly say it's for "infinite length" and if it maintains the distinction between idea and expression.
Although your reading -- that a copyright law is unconstitutional if it does not promote Science and the Useful Arts -- makes a lot of common sense, it just isn't the case.
In America, I mean. As presently Constituted.
Re:Umm (Score:4, Interesting)
Any enterprise class server has no local disk, or system disk at most. All data is stored on SAN disk. It would be hilarious if they grabbed all the servers but left the storage array.
It's sad when people can't wait... (Score:3, Interesting)
... It's an ugly thing that people thought it necessary or even a good idea to give out pre-released movie material. To clarify my position, I like downloading movies from the pirate bay. The movies I like, I usually buy... the movies I like a little, i wait until they are in the bargain bin at WalMart. If I didn't like it, I don't buy it.
With all that said, I once ruined my interest in buying the Stargate SG-1 movie by downloading and watching a pre-production copy of the movie from the pirate bay. I might buy it one day if I have that amount of cash in my pocket at the time I see it on the shelf, but the combination of events and circumstance have to make it seem like the thing to do at the time. I might still enjoy the production edited version of the movie with all effects and stuff installed, but I will still see this "unfinished" crap in my mind because that's what I saw first. Never again will I watch a movie before it is complete.
I want to see the Wolverine movie... trailers look cool. But I am not going to get the pre-release from the pirate bay because I don't want to ruin it.
Why does this kind of thing surprise anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)
Bottom line is people need to hold Obama accountable for these things (he sets the tone for things in the Fed gov just as Bush did before him) and stop putting him on some kind of plinth.
Re:Is Copyright still a fair deal? (Score:2, Interesting)
Perhaps it is time to abolish copyrights and patents, period.
Re:Too late FBI (Score:5, Interesting)
this is a civil contract issue right? Guy working at effects shop or whatever has contractual obligation not to steal shit from work (and probably signed an NDA with the wolverine job). Guy then breaks contract by taking a copy of the movie and then either uploads it or is careless with it and it gets uploaded.
Sure, there is some punishment in order but the guy who leaked a work print probably isnt responsible for the "billions of dollars" that the industry will say the leak cost them...he is at most responsible for one act of infringement when he uploaded it plus breaking a contractual obligation not to do so (and any punishment that shows up as too serious in a contract will just get invalidated).
Re:All servers!!!!! (Score:4, Interesting)
This government has totaly grossly exceceded its mandate. I am already longing for the Bush years.. I say we tar and feather the entire Legislative branch and all the officers in the Executive president included.. Who is with me?
Re:All servers!!!!! (Score:1, Interesting)
this is EXACTLY why you don't do business with either Americans nor in America. Its a business nightmare wrapped in a fascist state wrapped in a police bashing. Yes, this is a flame, and its all goddam tru
Re:All servers!!!!! (Score:1, Interesting)
This is true.
Since the occupational government does not respect the rights of surfs, 'owning' property in the USA has become a liability. It may be stolen at any moment for something somebody else may or may not have done. Did you use the same ISP as a drug dealer who didn't pay his protection money? You may be put out of business when all the computers are siezed and held for years. Do you have an address easily confused with that of someone who refuses to take Federal Reserve Notes? They may kick in your doors and shoot your dog.
On the other hand, if you're a billionaire that owns a few Congresswhores, then the USA is better than ever!
Re:Too late FBI (Score:4, Interesting)
Heinlein already said that (Score:5, Interesting)
We, The People, already revoked copyright laws. As Robert Heinlein once wisely wrote:
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; If I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am responsible for everything I do."
("The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress", 1966)
Nothing like easily broken laws and internet anonymity to set a man free...
Re:Incredible (Score:5, Interesting)
So who's the judge who signed the warrant allowing them to take all servers?
Re:Getting old, I guess... (Score:3, Interesting)
The thing to remember is, the FBI is going to come out of this justifying themselves. Because somewhere in all of that data is going to be something illegal, practically as a given.
But let's forget temporarily about our rights (taking a cue from the judge who signed this)--it had better be a really important crime if the FBI is going to spend the resources to examine an entire datacenter's worth of data. There are more than enough understaffed and unsolved murder cases etc. that if they're doing this to track down the leek of the new X-Men movie (as alleged) I'll be pretty pissed.
Re:Unconfirmed speculation (Score:5, Interesting)
So, this justifies pulling the 911 service servers in what way?
You see, search warrants are supposed to be narrowly tailored to those areas where it is more likely than not that they will find the evidence they are looking for. Pulling 50+ servers without even checking to see who is using those servers (we don't know how many servers, we know that 50 companies were affected) seems to be blatantly in violation of the 4th Amendment.
It is worth noting that the 4th Amendment was included partly in response to the common law larger-area search warrants which would allow police to search a string of houses because they were pretty sure that the evidence they were looking for was SOMEWHERE in that range. We require a tighter level of control than that.
Re:Incredible (Score:4, Interesting)
Wouldn't it be simpler to create an encrypted file system with a self-destructing key?
That way, when the FBI seized the servers, they could automatically delete all the data for you. Then when it hit court, it would be "well your honour, if the FBI told me what they were up to in advance, then I would have cooperated with them. As it is, this device prevents thieves from accessing sensitive company data. It prevents data thefts like the ones that happened at the department of defense, the CIA, the IRS, and the FBI."
The cops might be seriously annoyed with you, but you are going to be a criminal anyway ...
Any steps to defeat encryption? (Score:1, Interesting)
It would be interesting to hear whether or not they took any steps to make it easier to defeat full partition encryption. Did they just power everything down or did they try to make copies of ram while the systems were still powered up in order to grab any encryption keys that were in use?
What if it was google instead? (Score:3, Interesting)
How would the FBI approach this if my data was in some amorphous cloud like google? (technically and legally). Just thinking out loud...
Re:All servers!!!!! (Score:4, Interesting)
Do the Americans now live in a police state that is controlled by the RIAA. This may sound alarmist but when innocent companies are hurt by the use of FBI force - how far away is it?
Apparently the answer is yes.
Forget money, some data can cost lives. While rare, I have worked on databases of information that a few times a year save the lives of people in hospitals. What if that type of info is unavailable due to this type of fishing net equipment grab?
Re:Incredible (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder if they tried that and he refused leaving them little choice?
Since the FBI was able to get a warrant for the search they presumably could with much less trouble get a warrant for a single server. This eliminates the second possibility (with the warrant the owner would have cooperated.)
Here is my speculation. The owner of the business says at his Google blog that FBI was looking for a server that belonged to a company who is no longer a client. Probably he told them so, but FBI refused to take "no" for an answer and decided to show who is the boss here, to search the *whole* set of servers. In this situation he'd be really in trouble, since it's awfully hard to surrender a computer that you do not have, with a warrant or without.
Re:Incredible (Score:3, Interesting)
What if this WAS a valid search? (Score:3, Interesting)
Every post I've read so far assumes this wasn't a valid search.
What if it was?
The didn't take an entire data center, they took an entire customer out of a datacenter. That customer was coreip. coreip resells rackspace. coreip only has 50 machines. This puts things in perspective to me.
Perhaps the FBI is aware of some illegal operation that Core IP was fronting for? Perhaps most of Core IP's customers were dummy customers. Could be a spam network. Could be a bunch of malware hosts or something silly. If they think that Core IP is just a front and only a limited number of the customers are legitimate customers then it is a whole lot easier to take everything then wait for the couple of real customers to call you so you can confirm they are a real business.
I'm just throwing it out there, not that I really know anything. No one really does at this point so my theory seems just as likely as anyone elses.
Re:They told if George W. Bush got elected... (Score:5, Interesting)
Before we let run wild our confirmation biases...
We might wait on news of what the raid is actually about? Man, trotting out the partisanship at this point is pretty ugly.
Speaking of jerky behavior, the agent in charge of the raid was reported by the CEO to have said [google.com]:
Geez, the CEO must be a real criminal to merit that treatment. Better pre-emptively pull out his toenails.
Re:They told if George W. Bush got elected... (Score:5, Interesting)
Politicians love power, and what President would want to limit his own? Look for Obama to amend such laws late in his first term, when it looks better, if that even comes.
But don't you think it's a bit early in his term, one encumbered from the start with heavy baggage, to begin dealing with the myriad problem laws that have been passed during the last half century?
FWIW, RICO was passed in 1970, and the Feds love its vagueness to death. Easy prediction: Obama will receive no recommendations from his cabinet or federal appointments to crimp or change it. Between RICO and Patriot, we're not going to see the end of fracked-up warrantless situations like Core IP, not until a President alters the makeup of the Supremes, and subsequent legal challenges bring down the over-broad aspects of those laws.
Re:Incredible (Score:2, Interesting)
It just shows they probably had no idea what servers they were seizing, or what each server was. They just decided to indiscriminately take everything, no matter who owned it, or what type or purpose the equipment had. An utter failure to comply with the constitutional requirement of "no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "
This is like getting a search warrant for Main Street, and seizing all the hundreds of cars parked along it, and anything displayed in any store windows along the street.
A hosted environment is a virtual city. The colocation provider is a landlord, but their commission of a crime does not entitle law enforcement to search all their tenants' effects without probable cause..
Search warrants for datacenter environments should include the right to compel compliance to a search and possibly download a copy of all contents of certain servers, if so warranted, but no privilege to take a site offline.
Depriving innocent business users' of their customers can easily be more severe than the damage done by any crime allegedly committed.
It renders the actions of government ineffective for serving the purpose of government, and is an instance where law enforcement does more harm than good.
Re:What if this WAS a valid search? (Score:2, Interesting)
The didn't take an entire data center, they took an entire customer out of a datacenter. That customer was coreip. coreip resells rackspace. coreip only has 50 machines. This puts things in perspective to me.
Exactly. Despite /.'s kneejerk reaction that the FBI is in the wrong on this one, no one here knows for sure what was on the warrant and why.
Reading between the lines, Core IP's machines were seized because Core IP itself is the target of the investigation.
Under what circumstances do you send 15 police cars and a SWAT presence to the home of the CEO of a IT firm?
My guess, something fishy's going on at Core IP.
Re:Too late FBI (Score:4, Interesting)
TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the difference between "cloned the hard drives and returned the hardware the next day" and "left the entire data center in a warehouse to rot for a year" is whether anyone on the paper trail has a personal beef with the company in question.
Re:Too late FBI (Score:3, Interesting)
The major downside is that harsh penalties are sought to justify the overreaction - and then things escalate over time. Simple fraud is now "cyberterrorism" while really that word shouldn't be used unless there is a robot with a bomb.
Re:They told if George W. Bush got elected... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:They told if George W. Bush got elected... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well when Dubya was elected I was hoping he would be better than Clinton, and he was at first, but after 9/11 he turned into a War Hawk. Very disappointing. The proper response to 9/11 should have been the same as if it was a major traffic accident that killed 1500 people - mourn, rebuild, move on. NOT go out and commit mass murder against Iraqi and Afghan citizens, which makes us no better than the terrorists. (I'm glad I voted libertarian.)
As for Obama, I never expected much from him. An outstanding speaker is not necessarily a good executive. Plus he's doing exactly what I expected - spending our children and grandchildren's income. Nice job.
Re:Incredible (Score:3, Interesting)
The FBI had a warrant, which means they didn't go in for "no reason".
Unfortunately, the fact that they seized everything leaves us with few possibilities
1. The FBI lied about what they needed to seize on the warrant affidavit & a Judge signed it
2. The warrant was narrow & specific and the FBI exceeded the warrant's scope
3. The FBI actually needed to seize everything (incredibly unlikely)
4. The FBI knew that the server(s) they needed to seize was in the data centre but did not know which physical server it was. So they just seized everything.
Re:All servers!!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
By the way I might add that the largest ISP in the country, boldly displays a sign in their office window advertising no restrictions on bittorent or P2P downloads.