An anonymous reader writes "Bill C-61, the previous attempt at a Canadian DMCA, may have failed, but it is clear that the music, movie, and business software industries are engaged in putting massive pressure on the Canadian government to bring it back. Lobbying records show several meetings each week with Government Ministers for CRIA, CMPDA, and Microsoft over the past month. Meanwhile, the CRIA is preparing a grassroots campaign in support of new copyright laws, even claiming that the current rules are costing jobs to truck drivers delivering CDs and DVDs."
But the tubes have to go a longer way here in Canada, so the cable and telephone monopolies naturally made them smaller. That's why we have bandwidth caps. That's why we still need truck drivers to deliver physical media!
See... you backwards Canadians. They made the tubes out of metal, didn't they? They could have made the tubes smaller, and made them out of glass. Glass tubes are more slippery and let the packets go through faster.
Though I admit that a moose could probably do more damage stumbling over a glass tube than a metal one.
Glass tubes are more slippery and let the packets go through faster.
Don't forget that they need to be straight, or on a very gradual curve. Otherwise the 1's and 0's can start clogging up the tubes, especially if its looped.
I've met people from accounting firms who have paperless offices. Computers probably increased employment in accounting because more could be done at reasonable cost.
If these media companies keep this shit up, I think a lot of creative people will stop providing them with content.
It would be fun to form a mass co-op type business, pool everyone's cash and buy up as many band contracts as possible just to keep them off the major labels.
Yes, I know, and I think it is a step in the right direction. The thing is that Radiohead, N.I.N. and co. all went through the "system" first. I can't wait till a significant portion of the worlds popular artists have NEVER had a major label contract. Labels may never die completely, but they will be left with the Britney Spears and Jonas Brothers markets only, and even then they really won't care about music sales, as all the profit in that market is merchandise anyway.
A membership based record store would be interesting, kind of like the old Colombia House mail order thing, put a physical store. Charge a flat-rate for membership, then have the music for sale at 75% off. If you made it so everyone got one free CD a month, I bet a lot of people would pick up a few albums just 'cus they were in the store anyway to get their "Free" CD.
is that the recording companies can no longer force people to buy a whole album (CD) to get one or two good songs. People are paying a buck or so for individual songs, and just passing up the bad ones. So the recording companies' revenue goes down proportionately... as it should. But they want to keep forcing you to buy a CD.
The old model of "let's spend millions promoting this artist, then sell 6 million CDs at $20 each" just won't wash anymore. But they don't want to accept that. Well, that makes them
I think the other bonus now is that artists are (or will) be working harder at making a whole album again since people CAN buy single songs on iTunes/online now. Live show are getting better again too. I detect more effort being put into live shows now at ALL levels of musical fame. The whole concept of playing live only because you are supporting and promoting an album is pretty silly for most types of music anyway.
It's an admirable effort. Unfortunately the industry can always go find the next teen sensation... with a few hundred thousand bucks worth of marketing, they seem to be able to sell anyone's crap these days.
But thanks to copyright extended to more than a life after the artist death, RIAA will enjoy money anyway.
However, I think that the only way to wake up the "common person" to the current abuse of copyright by RIAA is for RIAA to be even more abusive. History tell us that only after tyrants have done truly outrageus act then the people will stand up, not earlier (unfortunately).
The problem is that the last two WIPO treaties require DMCA style laws. Pretty much any country that doesn't implement those will end up being passed over in other crap that the international community does. It will hurt trade and cause financial issues.
The American DMCA provisions are more or less taken straight from the requirements of the WIPO Copyright Treaty or WTC [wipo.int] and the WPPT or WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty [wipo.int] with the exception of penalties and a few extremes. Canada signed onto both of the treaties on 12/22/1997. Focusing on the media companies will only result in disappointed losses in the fight. You need to get the government (your local government as well as other country's governments) to change the treaties and international obligations to them to reflect the will of your people.
You or I or anyone can complain about Disney or Warner bros or whatever. They are as powerful as they are in this fight because they are attempting to get the governments of countries to make good on treaties that almost all countries in the world have signed an obligation to. It's the reason that the pirate bay just got into trouble, it's the reason why their laws are being changed and why charges were being brought against a group of people on the behalf of people and corporations that most likely don't even have offices in the country.
Sure, keep believing media corps are evil. I'm not asking you or anyone else to embrace them. I'm asking people to actually pay attention to where this crap is coming from so that we don't dick around with seemingly related issues that end up being a dead end. The treaties need to be adjusted-changes-destroyed-whatever before this threat goes away. When I can say Canada or any other country has to pass a law because a treaty they signed obligated them to, no matter how much it looks like I am the bad guy, I'm more or less only reminding those countries of their obligations.
It would be fun to form a mass co-op type business, pool everyone's cash and buy up as many band contracts as possible just to keep them off the major labels.
While it would be fun, that's all it would be "for fun". Or at least until the right crap was changed out. Even if "big media" had no clients, they could/would still push for the treaties to be implemented.
Maybe its time for a global over arching consumer group on a par with RIAA, to coordinate a global push back. RIAA and its associated entities besides having the cash have better global coordination.
There seem to be disparate consumer type groups that operate country by country, lacking cash and proper media profiles...
Just a though anyway
to contribute. The page says "End Warrantless Wiretapping!" but it is actually a membership page. Sign the hell up and give them some money. You are not limited to their fixed amounts, they will take any donation.
I can definitely think of reasons they wouldn't help in Canada, not the least of which is an entirely different legal framework within which to fight, where the US constitution does not apply and your legal rights are different (greater in some areas, lesser in others).
But, anyway, they do support a Canadian organization:
Not formally affiliated but they are more or less the Canadian equivalent. The EFF defends rights in the US constitution which simply do not (legally) apply in Canada. The EFC defends those laid out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
That said, both of the organisations come with baggage that is not really related to the RIAA (for example, Warrantless Wiretapping). If you want to support them in opposition to the RIAA, make sure they don't disagree with you on some important principle. This goes generally for any activist or charity cause, but I feel it's important to call out that it's not a single-issue organisation.
But they don't... at least the EFF doesn't, I don't know about EFC. In any case, the EFF has been staunchly adversarial to the RIAA and just about everything they are doing.
This is great advice. I donate what I can every year. If even a tenth of the Slashdot visitor population did the same, I'd feel a lot better about things.
Then maybe the media levy that is currently distributed amongst artists should also be distributed to truckers too?
Problem solved.
Long story short, Canada doesn't have a copyright problem. Tweak the levies if you want, but don't blow a good thing. DMCA style laws haven't worked anywhere else they've been implemented. The Canadian levy system shows far more promise. Heck, maybe the U.S. should be adopting our levy system instead of trying to make us adopt their horribly broken and ineffectual laws!
the levy system most certainly doesn't work. you end up paying for something you don't want. I, for example don't ever wish to purchase a top 40 cd. but due to the levy system if i purchased a blank cd in canada my money would be funneled directly to the very people i don't want it to even through i've never downloaded anything that belongs to them.
The blank CDs could be packaged up with a little art and levies(levi?) going to the source that you most like to download. Gotta stay honest though and buy spindle for both your porn and underground music.
the levy system most certainly doesn't work. you end up paying for something you don't want. I, for example don't ever wish to purchase a top 40 cd. but due to the levy system if i purchased a blank cd in canada my money would be funneled directly to the very people i don't want it to even through i've never downloaded anything that belongs to them.
yes, perfect system indeed.
Conversly, after buying blank CDs I remember to go download big label music.
WE aren't trying to get you to adopt our laws!!! Excuse me, but those are YOUR OWN companies doing that. WE don't like the DMCA any more than you do. It was sneaked past us (or most of us anyway), when we weren't looking.
And it is true that the DMCA doesn't work worth a damn, except to make things more difficult for the consumer. On the other hand, the levy system (as it has been proposed here, anyway) would not work either, since it collects money from honest people to pay for the activities of dishone
Unfortunately, the biggest problem with this situation is ill/mis informed or the lack of informed people.
The DMCA laws extend directly from the WPPT and WCT treaties (wipo)and Canada signed them in december of 1997 but hasn't implemented them yet. This is actually where the US originally got the DMCA from too. Now you can argue all you want that the media companies cause the treaties to have the wording and all that, I won't dispute it. The issue currently on the table is that many different countries are
Signing the treaty doesn't create the obligation, it's ratifying it that does. Canada signed those treaties, but hasn't ratified them. It's like the US position regarding the Kyoto Protocol, or the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child: signed, but not ratified, so not bound by the terms of the treaty.
Stop funding them. More and more artists are starting to see the light - that even if they give away their new albums online, and make their money via live concerts, they will *still* make more than they are through these usurious contracts they have with Big Media, Inc.
If people would just stop buying RIAA-produced crap (and stop stealing it!), the problem would eventually solve itself. It's no secret that they'll need to be dragged kicking and screaming back to this thing we all know as 'reality,' but it's gotta happen sooner or later. Right now we're just prolonging the agony for everyone.
Fewer trucks on the road and fewer CDs being smelted cannot possibly be a bad thing in the big picture. Not a big impact but would positive contribution if it was not BS trying to pass a law.
even claiming that the current rules are costing jobs to truck drivers delivering CDs and DVDs."
This is a fun game!
I will see your "jobless CD and DVD delivering truck drivers", and raise you one "dependence on foreign oil funds terrorism". So see, distributing digital material online actually reduces global terrorism and is thus a "goof thing"! Your move.
If these people are having THAT many meetings with government officials, they aren't talking about whether or not it will happen, but HOW it will happen.
It must be stopped. A TV campaign must be put on the air stating what happened in the U.S. and how it was passed and that the same law had failed in Canada but they haven't given up. People need to know what demon they are attempting to give birth to and how it harms the people.
I woke up this morning and ate a piece of toast. Five people simultaneously died in Japan. Eating toast kills Japanese people.
In all seriousness, technology marches on. The number of folks earning a living building horse drawn carriages dropped off sharply with the advent of mass-produced automobiles.
I hail from Saskatchewan, Canada. The general public here (farmers) could be gullible enough to believe that those newfangled bit-torrent do-hickeys are contributing to the trucking industry's troubles.
I'm from Saskatchewan, Canada, and there is no way we would believe the trucker's woes are caused by a drop in CD and DVD sales. We all know it's the atheists, causing a decreased demand for bibles. Simple when you think about it.
I'm from Saskatchewan, Canada, and somehow we have the only ISP in Canada not thoroughly devoted to screwing the customer.
Who would have thought that a government owned telecom would actually end up LESS scummy than the commercial alternatives?
I know for a fact that stricter copyright laws will NOT be saving any jobs in the trucking industry.
Well, shipping bits pressed into plastic disks on the highways in trucks certainly requires more truckers than delivering those same bits over the net, but the point here is that truckers hauling disks around are a misallocation of transportation capabilities. You can't ship lumber and washing machines over the net, so it makes more sense for truckers to be hauling those goods instead.
Especially the bulky boxes and advertising that go with those disks. And especially when the first few patches are actually _larger_ than the original disks.
I would love to see all game and software distribution restricted to standard CD case size, just for enironmental reasons. I can see having a recyclable plastic case to protect it, but who needs those artifically long DVD boxes?
You inadvertently bring up another good point, too.
If internet piracy means less trucks on the road, does that make internet piracy environmentally friendly? Would encouraging piracy help Canada fulfil its G20 green commitments?
There are far fewer CDs being solde these days, therefore less truck drivers are needed to ship them.
Blame Brittany Spears, Blame ITunes.
What an inane argument by a clueless government. Shipping data digitally is so much more cost effective, cheaper, lowers gas consumption (which both lowers emissions, and the pressure on the price of gas).
If the government actually wants to help the citizens who (barely) voted them in, they should ban the physical shipment of anything that could otherwise be sent digitally.
But no, they are clearly in the sway of the media megacorps (none of which are Canadian) for some unknown reason (kickbacks) that they plan to set Canada back years to protect an obsolete business model.
Jobs (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what costs jobs? Technological change -- it's a good thing.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
But the tubes have to go a longer way here in Canada, so the cable and telephone monopolies naturally made them smaller. That's why we have bandwidth caps. That's why we still need truck drivers to deliver physical media!
Re:Jobs (Score:4, Funny)
Though I admit that a moose could probably do more damage stumbling over a glass tube than a metal one.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Don't forget that they need to be straight, or on a very gradual curve. Otherwise the 1's and 0's can start clogging up the tubes, especially if its looped.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Fuck! Time to burn all those computers to ensure more accountant, science, mathmatics, physics, secretarial jobs don't get "lost".
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I've met people from accounting firms who have paperless offices. Computers probably increased employment in accounting because more could be done at reasonable cost.
Re:Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I say lets cut off their content... (Score:4, Interesting)
If these media companies keep this shit up, I think a lot of creative people will stop providing them with content.
It would be fun to form a mass co-op type business, pool everyone's cash and buy up as many band contracts as possible just to keep them off the major labels.
You are a bit late. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:You are a bit late. (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, I know, and I think it is a step in the right direction. The thing is that Radiohead, N.I.N. and co. all went through the "system" first. I can't wait till a significant portion of the worlds popular artists have NEVER had a major label contract. Labels may never die completely, but they will be left with the Britney Spears and Jonas Brothers markets only, and even then they really won't care about music sales, as all the profit in that market is merchandise anyway.
A membership based record store would be interesting, kind of like the old Colombia House mail order thing, put a physical store. Charge a flat-rate for membership, then have the music for sale at 75% off. If you made it so everyone got one free CD a month, I bet a lot of people would pick up a few albums just 'cus they were in the store anyway to get their "Free" CD.
Parent
One of the reasons the old model is dying (Score:2)
The old model of "let's spend millions promoting this artist, then sell 6 million CDs at $20 each" just won't wash anymore. But they don't want to accept that. Well, that makes them
Re:One of the reasons the old model is dying (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh I completely agree!
I think the other bonus now is that artists are (or will) be working harder at making a whole album again since people CAN buy single songs on iTunes/online now. Live show are getting better again too. I detect more effort being put into live shows now at ALL levels of musical fame. The whole concept of playing live only because you are supporting and promoting an album is pretty silly for most types of music anyway.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, you just want that Money song, they charge you the moon.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I found this Jamendo site recently, free music from independant artists...50% of advertising revenue goes to artists and 100% of all donations made.
Sounds like workable model.
Will be curious how it all turns out.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I say lets cut off their content... (Score:5, Insightful)
But thanks to copyright extended to more than a life after the artist death, RIAA will enjoy money anyway.
However, I think that the only way to wake up the "common person" to the current abuse of copyright by RIAA is for RIAA to be even more abusive.
History tell us that only after tyrants have done truly outrageus act then the people will stand up, not earlier (unfortunately).
Enjoy your music :-)
Parent
Re:I say lets cut off their content... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, it's not the media companies.
The problem is that the last two WIPO treaties require DMCA style laws. Pretty much any country that doesn't implement those will end up being passed over in other crap that the international community does. It will hurt trade and cause financial issues.
The American DMCA provisions are more or less taken straight from the requirements of the WIPO Copyright Treaty or WTC [wipo.int] and the WPPT or WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty [wipo.int] with the exception of penalties and a few extremes. Canada signed onto both of the treaties on 12/22/1997. Focusing on the media companies will only result in disappointed losses in the fight. You need to get the government (your local government as well as other country's governments) to change the treaties and international obligations to them to reflect the will of your people.
You or I or anyone can complain about Disney or Warner bros or whatever. They are as powerful as they are in this fight because they are attempting to get the governments of countries to make good on treaties that almost all countries in the world have signed an obligation to. It's the reason that the pirate bay just got into trouble, it's the reason why their laws are being changed and why charges were being brought against a group of people on the behalf of people and corporations that most likely don't even have offices in the country.
Sure, keep believing media corps are evil. I'm not asking you or anyone else to embrace them. I'm asking people to actually pay attention to where this crap is coming from so that we don't dick around with seemingly related issues that end up being a dead end. The treaties need to be adjusted-changes-destroyed-whatever before this threat goes away. When I can say Canada or any other country has to pass a law because a treaty they signed obligated them to, no matter how much it looks like I am the bad guy, I'm more or less only reminding those countries of their obligations.
While it would be fun, that's all it would be "for fun". Or at least until the right crap was changed out. Even if "big media" had no clients, they could/would still push for the treaties to be implemented.
Parent
Global Consumer RIAA needed maybe? (Score:2, Interesting)
Huh? Ever heard of the EFF? (Score:2)
https://secure.eff.org/site/Donation2?idb=138949259&df_id=1220&1220.donation=form1 [eff.org]
to contribute. The page says "End Warrantless Wiretapping!" but it is actually a membership page. Sign the hell up and give them some money. You are not limited to their fixed amounts, they will take any donation.
I admit they are not Canadian... (Score:2)
Re:I admit they are not Canadian... (Score:4, Informative)
I can definitely think of reasons they wouldn't help in Canada, not the least of which is an entirely different legal framework within which to fight, where the US constitution does not apply and your legal rights are different (greater in some areas, lesser in others).
But, anyway, they do support a Canadian organization:
http://www.onlinerights.ca/ [onlinerights.ca]
Not formally affiliated but they are more or less the Canadian equivalent. The EFF defends rights in the US constitution which simply do not (legally) apply in Canada. The EFC defends those laid out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
That said, both of the organisations come with baggage that is not really related to the RIAA (for example, Warrantless Wiretapping). If you want to support them in opposition to the RIAA, make sure they don't disagree with you on some important principle. This goes generally for any activist or charity cause, but I feel it's important to call out that it's not a single-issue organisation.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (Score:2)
Problem solved.
Long story short, Canada doesn't have a copyright problem. Tweak the levies if you want, but don't blow a good thing. DMCA style laws haven't worked anywhere else they've been implemented. The Canadian levy system shows far more promise. Heck, maybe the U.S. should be adopting our levy system instead of trying to make us adopt their horribly broken and ineffectual laws!
Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (Score:5, Insightful)
yes, perfect system indeed.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
The blank CDs could be packaged up with a little art and levies(levi?) going to the source that you most like to download. Gotta stay honest though and buy spindle for both your porn and underground music.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
the levy system most certainly doesn't work. you end up paying for something you don't want. I, for example don't ever wish to purchase a top 40 cd. but due to the levy system if i purchased a blank cd in canada my money would be funneled directly to the very people i don't want it to even through i've never downloaded anything that belongs to them.
yes, perfect system indeed.
Conversly, after buying blank CDs I remember to go download big label music.
Huh? Don't blame us! (Score:2)
And it is true that the DMCA doesn't work worth a damn, except to make things more difficult for the consumer. On the other hand, the levy system (as it has been proposed here, anyway) would not work either, since it collects money from honest people to pay for the activities of dishone
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately, the biggest problem with this situation is ill/mis informed or the lack of informed people.
The DMCA laws extend directly from the WPPT and WCT treaties (wipo)and Canada signed them in december of 1997 but hasn't implemented them yet. This is actually where the US originally got the DMCA from too. Now you can argue all you want that the media companies cause the treaties to have the wording and all that, I won't dispute it. The issue currently on the table is that many different countries are
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Signing the treaty doesn't create the obligation, it's ratifying it that does. Canada signed those treaties, but hasn't ratified them. It's like the US position regarding the Kyoto Protocol, or the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child: signed, but not ratified, so not bound by the terms of the treaty.
Here's an idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop funding them. More and more artists are starting to see the light - that even if they give away their new albums online, and make their money via live concerts, they will *still* make more than they are through these usurious contracts they have with Big Media, Inc.
If people would just stop buying RIAA-produced crap (and stop stealing it!), the problem would eventually solve itself. It's no secret that they'll need to be dragged kicking and screaming back to this thing we all know as 'reality,' but it's gotta happen sooner or later. Right now we're just prolonging the agony for everyone.
Great for the Environment (Score:5, Insightful)
Fewer trucks on the road and fewer CDs being smelted cannot possibly be a bad thing in the big picture. Not a big impact but would positive contribution if it was not BS trying to pass a law.
All this for "entertainment" (Score:2)
They treat this like it's a matter of national security.
For goodness sake, it's entertainment!
Why can't they focus this hard on things that actually matter to the health and success of their people?
Of course we in the US are just as guilty.
Broken window fallacy (Score:5, Funny)
even claiming that the current rules are costing jobs to truck drivers delivering CDs and DVDs."
This is a fun game!
I will see your "jobless CD and DVD delivering truck drivers", and raise you one "dependence on foreign oil funds terrorism". So see, distributing digital material online actually reduces global terrorism and is thus a "goof thing"! Your move.
Re:Truck Drivers? (Score:4, Insightful)
If these people are having THAT many meetings with government officials, they aren't talking about whether or not it will happen, but HOW it will happen.
It must be stopped. A TV campaign must be put on the air stating what happened in the U.S. and how it was passed and that the same law had failed in Canada but they haven't given up. People need to know what demon they are attempting to give birth to and how it harms the people.
Parent
Re:Truck Drivers? (Score:5, Insightful)
In all seriousness, technology marches on. The number of folks earning a living building horse drawn carriages dropped off sharply with the advent of mass-produced automobiles.
Parent
Re:Truck Drivers? (Score:5, Funny)
Thank god no Americans died because of your toast, or you'd be a terrorist!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Truck Drivers? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Truck Drivers? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Truck Drivers? (Score:4, Insightful)
I know for a fact that stricter copyright laws will NOT be saving any jobs in the trucking industry.
Well, shipping bits pressed into plastic disks on the highways in trucks certainly requires more truckers than delivering those same bits over the net, but the point here is that truckers hauling disks around are a misallocation of transportation capabilities. You can't ship lumber and washing machines over the net, so it makes more sense for truckers to be hauling those goods instead.
-jcr
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Especially the bulky boxes and advertising that go with those disks. And especially when the first few patches are actually _larger_ than the original disks.
I would love to see all game and software distribution restricted to standard CD case size, just for enironmental reasons. I can see having a recyclable plastic case to protect it, but who needs those artifically long DVD boxes?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You inadvertently bring up another good point, too.
If internet piracy means less trucks on the road, does that make internet piracy environmentally friendly? Would encouraging piracy help Canada fulfil its G20 green commitments?
Re:Truck Drivers? (Score:4, Insightful)
There are far fewer CDs being solde these days,
therefore less truck drivers are needed to ship them.
Blame Brittany Spears, Blame ITunes.
What an inane argument by a clueless government.
Shipping data digitally is so much more cost effective, cheaper, lowers gas consumption (which both lowers emissions, and the pressure on the price of gas).
If the government actually wants to help the citizens who (barely) voted them in, they should ban the physical shipment of anything that could otherwise be sent digitally.
But no, they are clearly in the sway of the media megacorps (none of which are Canadian) for some unknown reason (kickbacks) that they plan to set Canada back years to protect an obsolete business model.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I say they should encourage piracy to make sure the lawyers always have work.
Mind you if I have to choose between truck drivers and lawyers...
Re: (Score:2)
It's far from over yet. There is still an lengthy appeals process to go through.
Re: (Score:2)
And soon they will transport solid state disks instead.
The catch with copyright laws is that the amount of fair use seems to be cut down bit by bit for every new release.
I'm still of the opinion that there shall be limitations on copyright: