Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Windows Operating Systems Software

Windows 7 RC Rush Crashes MSDN, TechNet Pages 186

Posted by timothy
from the unimited-desires-v-limited-resources dept.
CWmike writes "Microsoft Developers Network (MSDN) and TechNet paid subscribers were supposed to find the 32- and 64-bit editions of Windows 7 RC available for download today. But in a snafu reminiscent of the problems Microsoft had in January when it tried to launch Windows 7 Beta, the download pages for the release candidate were inaccessible, despite numerous attempts over an hour-long span up until about noon Eastern. TechNet and MSDN subscribers were not happy. 'Man, this stinks,' said a user identified as Lyle Pratt, on a TechNet message forum at 10 a.m. ET. 'I can't believe we can still bring MSDN to its knees!' said John Butler, a Microsoft partner. 'Surely, they should be able to deal with this? Not a good advert for Microsoft.' The Windows 7 RC is slated to be available for public download next Tuesday, May 5. Meanwhile, Microsoft said today that the RC would operate until June 2010, for 13 months of free use — a significantly longer time than it did with Vista's previews."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Windows 7 RC Rush Crashes MSDN, TechNet Pages

Comments Filter:
  • Torrent? (Score:5, Funny)

    by ArchieBunker (132337) on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:04PM (#27780641) Homepage

    Torrent links anyone?

    • Re:Torrent? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Ilgaz (86384) on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:17PM (#27780821) Homepage

      I suspected the end user alpha release being "slashdotted" was a lame marketing game but if MSDN goes down, MS can't really maintain it, for real. For obvious reasons, they won't do the logical choice of running light httpd (Unix, God forbid) or similar on download server, they won't even bother calling Akamai.

      Nobody can blame them for not offering a torrent though. Thanks to MPAA/RIAA and various ISPs, P2P, especially torrent is an issue for large companies. If Apple used P2P to distribute very large OS updates (e.g. combo ones, XCode), we could blame MS for not using the option. Ask Apple why they don't use.

      BTW lets say you find a torrent from 3rd party, did the MS post its checksum (whatever system they use) to the download page or somewhere at site? I mean it doesn't look very right to "pirate" an operating system which has a huge industry abusing it. People torrenting it should either get MD5 from a trusted friend or MS. There are several "trojaned" Windows out there. It is the easiest way to have your own zombie army.

      • Nobody can blame them for not offering a torrent though. Thanks to MPAA/RIAA and various ISPs, P2P, especially torrent is an issue for large companies.

        Steam uses torrents.

        Most large companies do not use torrents because they are a little complex for most users - the equivilent is that they use a CDN to distribute the content across many servers, served locally to the user (I know it's not exactly the same but it has a similar effect of distributing load). I wonder if Microsoft was using a CDN or trying to

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Ilgaz (86384)

          Apple could embed libtorrent and use its functionality (just like rtorrent) in Software Update which is a dedicated GUI application. Perhaps they know all kinds of junk will happen to their customers such as throttling, letters and even "cable modem freeze" the day they use that system for such general purpose operating system updates.

          It is not simplicity, we have a company which can pack Mach/NeXT/FreeBSD and Carbon, get Unix 03 certificate and sell it as "World's easiest operating system". They sure know

          • by Chabo (880571)

            "cable modem freeze"

            The main cause of this is having the number of concurrent connections too high. If you set the default pretty low (10-20?), then most users shouldn't see any issues.

          • Apple could embed libtorrent and use its functionality (just like rtorrent) in Software Update which is a dedicated GUI application.

            True, since Steam also has basically an embedded torrent client... I think another possible reason might be they don't want the possibility of anyone injecting anything into the torrent. A CDN keeps things simple from their end and locks things down a little more.

          • If they do that without telling the user that they're going to be part of an upload network, I would be pretty damn pissed off. Say I'm on a connection which counts uploads, such as mobile (cell) broadband - I might be willing to eat the download hit, but I don't want the company to chew up my uploads.

            These are big commercial companies - we pay them a lot of money to get these uploads, I don't want them stealing my bandwidth too.

        • by Chabo (880571) on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:43PM (#27781137) Homepage Journal

          Steam uses a CDN, not torrents.

          WoW uses bittorrent for the weekly patches though.

        • by Firehed (942385)

          Since when has Steam used torrents? Blizzard does, but I was under the impression that Steam was using a traditional download protocol. Has this changed semi-recently?

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by jonadab (583620)
          > Most large companies do not use torrents because they are a little complex for most users

          Yeah, but you can put that under the hood and the user never has to know the details. You give them a normal http link to download an executable "installer" which downloads the rest of the thing using whatever protocol you like. A few years ago most large software companies were doing this to distribute large freely-downloadable stuff. The protocol under the hood obviously wasn't BitTorrent at that time, but the
          • However, for someone like Microsoft distributing something like a Windows 7 beta build, you're still going to want to spread the load across multiple servers on multiple continents and so on and so forth, which, yeah, is sort of what services like Akamai are all about. If Microsoft doesn't want to contract out like that, they could probably just do something similar with their own resources. I'm pretty sure they're big enough to be able to handle that.

            Microsoft (at least through the MSDN download site) uses their own transfer protocol and file transfer management tool (Microsoft File Transfer Manager) to access the content. They do indeed use Akamai to host and distribute the content.

      • by f0dder (570496)
        Why is Blizzard able to pull it off with their hack version of a p2p for WoW updates?
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Ilgaz (86384)

          I suspect there is something going on with the packet identification in regard to WoW updates. Large ISPs are running very advanced systems to do such "conspire torrent downloaders" tricks and they could be identifying the WoW updates. Or more basically, ISP could be shutting down "conspire P2P" switch when Blizzard does updates.

          I have actually used (via VNC) an American friend's system since I had hard time believing that his connection loses its mind when he runs torrent. It was amazing thing to see and I

        • If you look at the downloader, there's also an HTTP source in case torrents are blocked. At least that is the case for the SC2 battle report video downloaders and WC3 downloaders that I've used.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Anpheus (908711)

        Microsoft and Akamai have a friendly relationship, but because they want to control the distribution they release everything on their site. That's something you really, truly, cannot do with torrents, because you can write your own torrent that ignores the tracker's rules on DHT.

        No matter what your distribution method, you have to remember that they are distributing hundreds of terabytes of data over a tenuous and fragile internet infrastructure. It may not even be Microsoft's links that are failing when yo

        • by Chabo (880571)

          That's something you really, truly, cannot do with torrents, because you can write your own torrent that ignores the tracker's rules on DHT.

          Nobody would bother. This isn't like on private sites, where you can hack your client into reporting that you uploaded 2TB today to give you more credit, the only benefit from using a hacked client on MS's servers is a possibility that you'll acquire peers more quickly.

        • because they want to control the distribution they release everything on their site

          I suspect this is the case, but as with many bloated corporations ran by pointy haired mobs they don't have a clue. As soon as the bits are copied from their server to some other machine on the internet they no longer have control. The fact that they refuse to use available technology that was developed outside their labs shows corporate arrogance and ignorance.

      • "...I suspected the end user alpha release being "slashdotted" was a lame marketing game but if MSDN goes down,..."

        Eh?

        Surely, you are not suggesting that Microsoft intentionally brought down their own server to give the impression people were crowding in line to download the RC?

        That would be like a politician, up for re-election, committing Seppuku to impress voters (Hey, we can dream, can we not?)

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by poopdeville (841677)

          Why would Microsoft PAY to not have this happen? Everybody who wants the RC will get it, in time. And now they have free publicity too.

          I am not MS-head, but from what I gather, the MSDN works just fine under normal load.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by w0mprat (1317953)

        Nobody can blame them for not offering a torrent though

        <blame>

        Microsoft could use their own customized download tool that leverages bittorrent, but does not require publishing a .torrent file to the web or to torrent search engines for use with a non-Microsoft download client. For example the tool could pick up the torrent file from authorized servers only. I think there is really little excuse other than not undermining the anti-piracy FUD engine

        </blame>

      • by trawg (308495)

        Nobody can blame them for not offering a torrent though. Thanks to MPAA/RIAA and various ISPs, P2P, especially torrent is an issue for large companies. If Apple used P2P to distribute very large OS updates (e.g. combo ones, XCode), we could blame MS for not using the option. Ask Apple why they don't use.

        I don't want these companies to be using my Internet connection to distribute their software and enhancing their profits. I don't want my updates to be reliant on everyone else seeding properly.

        What happens if I'm updating an old box and there's like, one seed running at microsoft or apple.com and I get 2kbytes/second because I'm in the middle of nowhere?!

        Torrenting also has implications to their EULAs, many of which state you're not allowed to redistribute. Torrenting, imho, implies that you are granted a

      • by Kalriath (849904) *

        they won't even bother calling Akamai

        They do use Akamai.

      • by Marauder2 (82448)

        "they won't even bother calling Akamai."

        Tell me why then, when I just downloaded it through my TechNet subscription, it used the Akamai downloader...

    • Just for verifying that the ISO download with BitTorrent is the real deal, would somebody please share the MD5 hash of the ISO downloaded from MSDN, TechNet?
      • by Tony Hoyle (11698) *

        Microsoft themselves publish the SHA1 on MSDN.. just run sha1sum on what you have.

        • by cciRRus (889392)
          I found the hashes online but not from MSDN:

          File Name: en_windows_7_ultimate_rc_x86_dvd_349010.iso
          Date Posted (UTC): 4/30/2009 6:00:41 AM
          SHA1: 7D1F486CA569EFFFFB719CFB48355BB7BF499712
          ISO/CRC: E8A1C394

          File Name: en_windows_7_ultimate_rc_x64_dvd_347803.iso
          Date Posted (UTC): 4/30/2009 6:00:41 AM
          SHA1: FC867FE1AB2E0A9796F9E4D155B44EA6998F4874
          ISO/CRC: 58FB2BE0

          Since I have no access to MSDN, can someone please verify if the SHA1 hashes are indeed correct? If you ha
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by D4MO (78537)

            Screen cap from MSDN [imgur.com]

            en_windows_7_ultimate_rc_x86_dvd_349010.iso MD5 Hash: 8867c13330f56a93944bcd46dcd73590
            en_windows_7_ultimate_rc_x64_dvd_347803.iso MD5 Hash: 98341af35655137966e382c4feaa282d

            The x64 leak on mininova [mininova.org] has the same MD5

  • Not thinking (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Joe U (443617) on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:08PM (#27780679) Homepage Journal

    Microsoft releases Vista/2008 SP2 AND Windows 7 RC AND Windows 2008 R2 RC AND Virtual PC RC AND the Windows 7 SDK on the same day and they don't expect to have bandwidth problems?

    Geez, what were they thinking? SP2 should have come out on RTM day, that would at least cut a few hundred mb downloads out of the picture.

    • Re:Not thinking (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Malc (1751) on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:18PM (#27780835)

      It's called Content Delivery Network, and in this case, Microsoft are using Akamai. Bandwidth shouldn't be a problem. I'm downloading Win 7 right now. People need to get a life... so what if they can't download at this very moment an RC of an unreleased OS? This isn't story isn't news; move on.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Ilgaz (86384)

        In "consumer alpha" slashdotting issue, people found the file and posted its link, directly from Akamai. Sorry for forgetting it in my post. The link worked perfectly and they downloaded it very good speed.

        You know what was the issue? Their Windows server processing, the "key generation" part and the "passport sign in" part. It could be similar issue today and if you ask me, if it is the issue, people trusting their scalability issues (win 2008 downloaders) should think again.

    • Re: (Score:1, Redundant)

      by Ilgaz (86384)

      They could use the same (or similar) system which Apple uses for OS X updates, HD Movie Downloads, Music Distribution and recently 1 billion hit App Store. It is Akamai/Edgesuite. Apple uses their own XServe for regular, dynamic content and offloads to Akamai (EdgeSuite) for big files. Nobody questions them for that decision as it is the logical thing to do. Just imagine the load of distributing 1 billion downloads in a completely random manner. It is just "app store". Now add HD Movies, World's most popula

  • I'm a PC... Windows with no boundaries... er.. well...um...
  • by Knara (9377) on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:09PM (#27780697)
    Buncha consumerist lemmings :)
    • by guruevi (827432)

      How 'bout you try running on Vista and then being told that the faster version of Vista is coming out today. You'll be willing to pay your ISP to get you more bandwidth just so you can begin installing it faster.

    • by jmichaelg (148257)

      You laugh but it's a pattern that repeats over and over. In the early 20th century, the Mexicans developed a passion for Hellman's mayonnaise. Forget that you could make better at home, it had to be Hellman's. Only problem was, Hellman's was manufactured in England and so it had to be shipped. The Titanic was carrying tons of Hellman's when it went down. It was a national tragedy as the shipment was the entire month's supply for Mexico. The Mexicans were so shocked by the loss, that they've commemorated th

  • by Matt Perry (793115) <perry.matt54@yahooNETBSD.com minus bsd> on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:16PM (#27780809)

    No joke. They should have provided a torrent. This type of distribution is what bittorrent excels at. It would have provided everyone with a better experience and saved MS some bandwidth.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sexconker (1179573)

      They probably have CONTRACTS with Akamai.
      You know, CONTRACTS that state something along th elines of "You gotta give us ur moneys all teh time you do major content delivery.".

    • It would have provided everyone with a better experience and saved MS some bandwidth.

      It's worth noting that it doesn't provide everyone with a better experience - just the people downloading.

      Anyone playing online games or visiting websites might notice the internet is running slower - not a better experience.

      Though I would rather see torrents being used for stuff like this, rather than *cough* other purposes. :P

      But if it can be distributed via CDN, then that's even better.

      • by Shikaku (1129753)

        How to not get fucked over by a bittorrent client internet connection wise:

        1. Find your upload limit. If you aren't doing anything else on the internet limit it to around 80%. If you are limit it to 50%. Drop more if needed.
        2. Limit your global and torrent connection numbers. You would never need more than 50 peers. 100 is pretty good too, but anything over is literally overkill. Also dead and slow connections are automatically killed.
        3. Set your torrents to stop at 100% seeding. Or whatever you want

        • I remember reading that in Vancouver, BC (Canada), there's parts of the Shaw network that were 98% torrent traffic at various hours of the day.

          This was before they implemented traffic throttling.

          I can remember quite often I wouldn't be able to visit websites with servers in the US, presumably because the pipes through Seattle were choked. Any servers in Canada, the UK, etc. were fine.

          But Verizon's solution was even better - connecting closer peers, so the whole damn network doesn't slow to a crawl.

  • by westlake (615356) on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:17PM (#27780823)
    East Coast developer tries to download the ISO during his lunch break. It ain't gonna happen.
  • by DavidKlemke (1048264) on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:19PM (#27780843) Homepage

    Seems Microsoft might be trying to make the best of a bad situation when it comes to people pirating their software, but turning them into beta testers. Sure you have to give them something for free but in the end you'll get a whole lot of people who would just pirate your software anyway doing a whole lot of free QA for you. Pretty smart move if you ask me.

    Funnily enough I didn't hear anything about Microsoft pursuing the Pirate Bay for hosting the torrent of their latest builds, which seems to support this theory. Anyone seen anything?

    • Forget everything, can you believe the lemmings download it from Pirate sites? An operating system? Give me an NSA SE Linux ISO and I can modify it (with my low knowledge) the best trojan, spying, listening, watching OS ever. You got the OS install image to modify, can it get easier? :)

      Even the highest of highest end antiviruses which can still sell for money gives no guarantee if they are installed to an already trojaned/wormed/rootkit infected system. That is why they always want to do a complete low leve

  • by Kelson (129150) * on Thursday April 30, 2009 @07:27PM (#27780953) Homepage Journal

    Looks like this story [slashdot.org] was right!

    Except my computer hasn't started to freeze and jitter. What's up with that?

    • by Ilgaz (86384)

      I guess your ISP is very technical and you didn't see a "brownout". I have seen one, when the idiots (at billing) decided to give me IP but did not allow any data in or out. Some system parts were seriously shaken, frozen because they weren't coded with such possibility in mind. I reported all to my OS vendor and couple of apps vendors. One application became such a zombie that kill -9 didn't help. Reason? It was checking for updates. That is all! Some apps refused to display a GUI until I hand edited their

  • The one the internets seemed to distribute (probably via Sweden) for a week now?

    MS is doing it wrong.

    • by geekoid (135745)

      That will happen naturally.
      Let someone who doesn't like the bandwitdth issue post it as a torrent. Then if people start embedding Trojans MS can wash there hands of it.

  • installed it a few days ago.

    quite nice.

  • by nizo (81281) *

    Maybe they need to upgrade their web servers [wikipedia.org]?

  • Windows Server just cannot handle the load.....
  • Surely, they should be able to deal with this? Not a good advert for Microsoft

    Or you could say that it's actually an excellent advert, because now MS can say that so many people suddenly wanted to download it.

  • The MDSN users are clearly to blame here. They are probably using Vista and IE8. They should be using a Mac and Safari.
  • Hah! Hah!!
    Try Wubi.exe' [wikipedia.org]

  • Typical /. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by W2k (540424) <wilhelm.svenseli ... m minus language> on Friday May 01, 2009 @05:37AM (#27784697) Homepage Journal
    Of course, if this had happened during an RC release of a major Linux distro, the comments would be more along the lines of "zomgwtfbbq, Linux is so popular now the masses can't get hold of it fast enough" whereas since it's a Windows RC being released, people are taking the opportunity to flame like idiots instead.

    Doesn't paint a very pretty picture of the FOSS community.

HEAD CRASH!! FILES LOST!! Details at 11.

Working...