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No Russian Operating System, At Least For Now 105

Posted by timothy from the nichyego-for-now dept.
Elektroschock writes "The project by 27 Russian parties to develop a National Operating System for Russia has not taken off, yet (Russian). Ilya Ponomarev, the responsible technology committee chair in the Duma, received a negative response from the government. The government argues that the project and Open Standards would not impact the society and economy. Parliament members regret the setback for Russia's digital independence. Ponomarev wants to find other interested partners in the Government now." The Google translation makes it tough to tell whether this project is actually dead, or just shelved for the moment. Any Russian speakers out there who can parse it with greater clarity?
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No Russian Operating System, At Least For Now More

No Russian Operating System, At Least For Now

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  • Not I (Score:5, Funny)

    by SpeedyDX ( 1014595 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .xineohpydeeps.> on Saturday May 02, 2009 @02:34PM (#27799851)

    I would, but then I would have to kill you, comrade. Our national secrets are safe from your translations of the Google.

    • Innovation comes from the Individual, not Gov't (Score:5, Insightful)

      by reporter ( 666905 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @04:57PM (#27800837) Homepage
      Seriously speaking, innovation comes from the individual, not the government. Take the case of Japan, which was once touted as the best example of government intervention. The Japanese Ministry of International Trade and Industry (MITI) set industrial policy that nudged Japan into the electronics industry but, importantly, stopped short of specifying the design of specific products. The transistor radio came from Sony engineers, not MITI bureaucrats. The DRAM chips came from NEC engineers, not MITI bureacrats. MITI provided the environment for fostering creativity, but individual engineers produced the creativity and the products.

      The Kremlin is wrong to think that the government can pick a winning operating system (OS) and then guide its develop.

      The best thing that the Kremlin can do is the following.

      1. Enforce intellectual property rights.
      2. Allow freedom of expression (an important part of human rights), thus fostering creativity. Freedom of culture expression (e. g., criticism of government) is just as important as freedom of scientific expression. Both types of expression are part of the same human mind. Scientists -- like Andrei Sakharov -- have been some of the strongest advocates of democracy and human rights. If you suppress one form of expression, then you will damage the other form.
      3. Eliminate corruption and legal nihilism.
      4. Heavily fund research projects at Russian universities. Japan's MITI did not heavily fund univerisites and but did heavily fund research consortiums or national research projects, both being staffed by employees from Japanese companies. MITI also steered low-interest loans (from key banks) toward Japanese companies doing research and development of various key technologies. This Japanese approach had the same effect as heavily funding universities.
      5. Protect Western culture by, for example, strictly regulating immigration. (Japan has strict immigration policies.)

      In short, create a liberal Western society and a truly free market. Within this environment, Russian engineers will, for reasons of greed or personal achievement, create the best OS that meets the needs of Russian society. If the Japanese can achieve such technological success, I am certain that the Russians can do the same.

      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) *

        innovation comes from the individual, not the government

        liberty, blah blah, Atlas Shrugged, blah, free markets and eternal copyright, blah blah.

        Tell you one thing: When it comes to figuring out innovative ways to get suspects to give up phony confessions and useless intelligence, you can't beat a conservative government.

        In short, create a liberal Western society and a truly free market.

        My friend, you have already seen the closest thing to a "truly free market" you will ever see outside of speculative ficti

        • nonsense, the state capitalism of the U.S. isn't free market. There are other places in the world where one can buy and sell anything and the market actually sets the price. nothing like not needing a doctor to get any medication you want....

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by mrraven ( 129238 )

            You remind me of the King Crimson song:

            "I repeat myself when under stress
            I repeat myself when under stress
            I repeat myself when under stress
            I repeat myself when under stress
            I repeat myself when under stress
            I repeat..."

            You Libertarians need a new riff before you become more unpopular than even George Bush himself. Hint a Libertarian is only slightly less repulsive than a neo-con. Yeah Libertarians get it right on opposing empire abroad, and police state at home, and your economic theory? Not so much...

      • You reminded me of a quote I've read recently:

        The market system delivers the goods people want, but those who make it work cannot readily explain why it is so. The socialist or communist system does not deliver the goods, but those who operate it can readily explain away it's failure.

        -Peter Bauer, London School of Economics.

      • # Enforce intellectual property rights.
        # Allow freedom of expression

        Make your mind up, which one of these do you want?

        Protect Western culture by, for example, strictly regulating immigration

        How would they benefit by cutting off the influx of talent and ideas? And why would an Eastern country want to protect Western culture?

      • You incorrectly attrribute the creation of the transistor radio to Sony, and I quote:

        There are numerous claimants to the title of the first company to produce practical transistor radios, often incorrectly attributed to Sony (originally Tokyo Tsushin Kogyo). Texas Instruments had demonstrated all-transistor AM (amplitude modulation) radios as early as 1952, but their performance was well below that of equivalent vacuum tube models. A workable all-transistor radio was demonstrated in August 1953 at the Düsseldorf Radio Fair by the German firm Intermetall. It was built with four of Intermetall's hand-made transistors, based upon the 1948 invention of Herbert Mataré and Heinrich Welker. However, as with the early Texas units (and others) only prototypes were ever built; it was never put into commercial production.

        (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_radio [wikipedia.org])

      • "In short, create a liberal Western society and a truly free market."

        Because that worked soooooo well for us now didn't it? Tired stale Libertarian rhetoric, is tired, stale and so 2006. A xenophobic Libertarian wonderful good thing your user id is 666... that ought to be a tip off right there. SIGH!

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by dimko ( 1166489 )
      No its not. And i am not your comrade ;p THIS IS MY "NOT VERY GOOD" TRANSLATION BELOW: Letter of member of Duma(russian parliament), Ilya Ponamorev, addressed to President Medvedev regarding of creation of "national programming platform" was readdressed to ministry of communication. Widely discussed initiative, strengthened by 27 representatives of different 19 organizations didn't seem to find any support in parliament. In return letter to member of Duma from "profile ministry", there is interest in sup
      • It is obviously a backward step for the russians to "roll their own" OS. This would (in the long run) stop the training that many spammers/phishers/botnet/virus/trojan/etc writers get, as its fairly obvious that a high percentage of those types of programs are actually written somewhere in the old Soviet block. It would also reduce the amount of trained personel that have attempted access to "sensitive" western computers, putting the Military in a bind should relations with the west deteriorate much further

  • In Soviet Russia (Score:5, Funny)

    by abigsmurf ( 919188 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @02:35PM (#27799861)

    The system operates you!

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by JustOK ( 667959 )

      Is it written in CCCP?

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Yoozer ( 1055188 )
        Yes. There is no Start button - there's a Forwards, Comrades! button.
        The default theme is Red, and it can't be changed.
        If you play Minesweeper and finish it, the KGB will visit you - because you know too much.
        Klipski in Word will ask you if you want to unite the socialist workers from all over the world.

        The good part? It's free of errors - the Glorious Leader designed it, and he doesn't make mistakes. Well, except for that nasty Dissident Error that might sometimes pop up, but all you have to do i

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mc1138 ( 718275 )
      Operating system ctrl-alt-del's you!

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by jo42 ( 227475 )

      Hate to break it to you, but "Soviet Russia" ceased to exist last century...

      Or is this simply a case of /.'rs beating a dead meme into the ground through to China?

      • They feel they owe you no respect for your comment, and so I will copy it for you to eleven other sites.

      • I did say old Soviet Russia specifically to fend off comments like yours. It implies all the countries that were originally associated with that political block.

        • I did say old Soviet Russia specifically to fend off comments like yours. It implies all the countries that were originally associated with that political block.

          Do you have any idea how offensive that blanket association-without-consent is to some people in the countries you refer to? Many residents of "the Baltic States" are quite furious about still being associated with the country which took them over by force majeur in the 19th and 20th centuries. Equally, many residents of the Baltic States who have b

  • "Russian Windows will not be" (Score:3, Informative)

    by Laxori666 ( 748529 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @02:43PM (#27799913) Homepage
    The article title is: "Russian Windows will not exist." So probably not. One of the quotes says how he would like a repository of open-source stuff for the benefit of society, but now, such a repository will not exist. So it seems dead.

    • Actually, it says that while support of Russian developers, stimulation of domestic software development and use of Free Software is a strategic benefit for Russian economics and it is a government priority, there will be no "National [Computer] Program Platform", because government officials believe it will not solve the problems of IT development in Russia.

      So yes, there will be no Russian Windows alternative. And, really, I do agree with these Russian government officials -- there is no need for an offici

  • Riiight.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tubal-Cain ( 1289912 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @02:53PM (#27799969) Journal

    The government argues that the project and Open Standards would not impact the society and economy.

    No NSA backdoors, a patriotic/nationalistic project, no licence fees (or less piracy, at least), software that wasn't originally created in America...

    Yep, absolutely no impact on society or the economy.

    • NSA backdoors? If there were going to be any backdoors in Russian software, they would be put there by other Russians... either the Czar (Putin) or the gangsters (Russian Business Network) or maybe even both.
      On a somewhat offtopic note: I continually find it amusing that people on Slashdot simultaneously believe the NSA has a magic backdoor into every Windows box on earth that nobody has ever actually been able to proves exists (because there isn't one), but at the same time they have no pro

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by gad_zuki! ( 70830 )

      Prove the NSA backdoors before adding more to the FUD-pile that is slashdot commenting on commercial software. Ill help you start: a mention of the letters NSA via a hex dump isnt proof of anything but your own credulity.

      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by V!NCENT ( 1105021 )

        You are one of those complete morons who can't think for themselves.

        What backdoor are we talking about? E-n-c-r-y-p-t-i-o-n... whoooopyyyy!

        What has the NSA done? Work with Microsoft... on encryption... whoooopppppy!

        How many master/mother keys are there? Three.... whoooppyyyyy again.... yesh, yu liiiiikeee?

        What is the third key's title? NSA... woooooooowwwww...

        Then the NSA key title debug symbol was not removed.... wow... still following? Good... I'm glad you have the brains to read...

        Then there came this Mi

      • There probably isn't one (but it wouldn't surprise me). More important, though, is the fact that we can't prove otherwise. Would you entrust your national security to software from a company in China?

        • If you use Linux you are entrusting your security to the NSA since code that the NSA wrote is already in the Linux kernel (see SELinux). As mentioned above, plenty of people can see the Windows source code to check for malware.
              Of course, be it Linux or Windows, even having security audits doesn't mean there are no security holes... why bother writing your own backdoor that will likely be easier to trace when you could just use the same exploits that the malware writers use?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by 1u3hr ( 530656 )
            If you use Linux you are entrusting your security to the NSA since code that the NSA wrote is already in the Linux kernel

            Sure. And the Russians can just replace that and recompile it with their own version, eg from the FSB. That's the whole point of Open Source.

            With Windows, even if you have the code and the rights (MS will let big enough customers have it), if you did roll your own, quite likely a whole lot of things would stop working. It's funny that Microsoft application are the most sensitive to t

      • Prove the NSA backdoors

        Hard proof is hard to do when deniability is part of the design.
        But here is something extremely suspicious, "a weakness that can only be described as a backdoor."

        http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2007/11/securitymatters_1115 [wired.com]

  • This article basically says (Score:5, Informative)

    by loonycyborg ( 1262242 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @02:57PM (#27799997)
    that the government refused to support the "national software platform" but it still plans to stimulate development and use of FLOSS software. This is a point of view I personally agree with. Why reinvent the wheel once again when you can just pick a linux distro and tweak it according to your needs? :)

    • just pick a linux distro and tweak it according to your needs?

      I'll have to think about that a little bit.

      Linux becoming the official OS of a nation. Hmmm.

      I'm going to have to think about it a little more.

  • Russian speaker here (Score:5, Informative)

    by Harinezumi ( 603874 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @02:59PM (#27800003)
    From what I can tell from the article, the proposal was forwarded to the Communications Ministry, which replied with a rejection letter, citing the expense involved and lack of clear success metrics. There were also concerns over ghettoizing Russian IT industry away from the international mainstream.

    Ponomoarev is not giving up, though, and is seeking direct dialogue between his parliamentary committee and representatives of the Ministry, and also considering discussing his proposal with other government agencies.

    • Good news (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Roman Mamedov ( 793802 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @03:32PM (#27800211) Homepage

      They basically suggested ditching the ambitious from-scratch "national software platform", or the infamous vapourware "Russian OS", and instead focusing on contributions to existing Free Software projects.

      The key sentence from TFA:
      "The communications ministry has instead suggested to use the possibilities offered by the Free Software development model. The limited national resources should be put to further the development of "the best internationally-created solutions, in cooperation with the leading specialists from around the globe".

      Yay, there are sane people in our government.

      • Please note that in russian free, as in beer, and Free, as in liberty, are different words. The Ministry replied with support for Free, as in liberty, Software development.

    • Authors of the reply [...] agree that "supporting a national developer is a strategy" and that "the stimulation of creation and use of free software is a priority in the government policy, as it relates to information and communication technologies [ICT]." Yet they decided against creation of a national software platform and said that it would not solve any problems in the national IT sector.

      The ministry of communication suggested to explore the options which are available through the [existing] free software development model. They said, the government's resources are limited and should be directed towards development and improvement of "the best solutions available in the world, in cooperation with leading specialists abroad".

      From Ponomarev's reply:

      The parliament member is sure that the ministry of communication does not want to invest in ICT sector, but instead wants to stimulate the development according to the liberal theory [of market economy?]. "Government was indirectly involved in all major successful hi-tech projects. Internet, UNIX: they all are collateral results of government programs. Market stimulation methods will not work. This can only happen in an established market, which we do not have at the moment."

      Translation is mine.

      Hey, I kind of agree with the government. Why fork it again if they can simply adapt one of the mature distributions out there and give some people research grants to work with free software developers around the world? It sounds like the representative is simply trying to create a government-funded software company they do not really need. I mean, Russian works in Ubuntu out of the freaking box.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by edis ( 266347 )

      Very correct summary.

      There were also concerns about enormous possibilities for corrupt misuse of funds for that pretentious attempt. Personally, I am supporting expressed view and concerns of the Ministry.

      OTOH, they have nothing against the benefits, that OSS can provide with - just within the mainstream of world development. Ideas of supporting national developers, creating central repository for national OSS are supported in general.

      Ponomarev emphasizes, that Internet, Unix had roots in governmental progr

    • Why doesn't the Russian government just give official sanction to the Russian-language version of Ubuntu Linux 9.04 and end it at that? It'll save the Russian government a "mountain of kopeks" in development costs and avoid the IT industry ghettoizing issue, too.

  • It is dead (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 02, 2009 @03:01PM (#27800027)

    Original Russian text says that Government supported the idea of using open source software, but declined to support National OS.

    So the project is dead.

  • Translation of the first half of the article (Score:5, Informative)

    by tetromino ( 807969 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @03:16PM (#27800131)

    There will be no "Russian Windows"

    Deputy Ilya Ponomarev's letter to President Medvedev about the creation of a "national software platform" was redirected to the Ministry of Communications. According to CNews sources, the Ministry's reply letter to the deputy supports the orientation towards domestic and open-source software, but criticizes the deputy's main point - Ponomarev's "national software platform" proposal.

    The authors of the reply (CNews has obtained a copy) agree that "supporting domestic developers is of strategic importance" and "stimulating the creation and use of open-source software is one of the government's priorities in the area of IT policy". However, they argue against the creation of a national software platform, believing that such a measure will not be a solution for the domestic IT sector's problems. The ministry writes that "the creation of such a combination of operating systems, software tools, software applications and open standards will not give a return to the economy and society".

    The text directly mentions the high cost and risk of the project from the corruptibility point of view, due to the uncertainty of the criteria for project success. The authors also see a danger in the separation between the domestic and world IT industries that would result from the choice of such a development policy.

    The Ministry of Communications proposes an orientation towards the possibilities that are enabled by the open-source model of software development. It proposed to direct the nation's limited resources towards the development and modification of "world leading solutions in cooperation with the world's best specialists".

    • Second half (Score:4, Informative)

      by tetromino ( 807969 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @03:34PM (#27800227)

      Considering the above, the reply proposes to "harmonize Russian normative regulations with international law, including the Civil Code and a number of federal laws". Among the other proposed measures are the development of a list of prescriptions to ensure the compatibility between government IT systems, pilot projects for switching government agencies to open-source software, the creation of a repository of such software, and legislation to counteract monopolies in government IT purchases.

      Ilya Ponomarev, chairman of the Duma technology development subcommittee, has not received the reply so far, but agreed to comment on the text that is in CNews' possession. "All of the Ministry's proposals on the one hand are directly listed in our letter, and on the other hand contradict the argument given in the reply", the deputy says. "I can only welcome the creation of a repository for domestic open-source software, if it will be created. At the moment there does not exist such a repository."

      The MP is is sure that the Ministry of Communications does not want to engage in investment activities in the IT sector, but simply wants fo stimulate them within the framework of economic liberalism. "All successful large-scale high-tech projects have been completed with the indirect participation of the state. The Internet, Unix -- these are all indirect results of government programs. We will not succeed purely by market stimulation measures, such a development is possible only given an established market, and we do not have one," Ponomarev told CNews. "I am happy that the Ministry has realized the necessity of legislative initiatives, and I await Ministry representatives to present their proposals to our committee. If the Ministry of Communications does not want to deal with the national software platform, we can partner with other government agencies."

      • All big sucessfull [sic] highly technological projects happened while being directly affected by goverment [sic]. Internet, Unix...

        I guess that's the big brother mindset. I don't remember the US government, much less any bunch of murderous commie assholes having anything to do with Unix.

        When the Duma see a way to line their pockets with something, they will embrace it (or when Vladimir Putz tells them to).

  • My understanding of FOSS in Russia (Score:5, Interesting)

    by zlogic ( 892404 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @03:38PM (#27800247)

    I live in Russia, and my understanding of the government's Linux usage is this:
    A few projects are being written using FOSS software, and depending on the outcome Linux will be either considered for other uses or will be abandoned completely. Corruption is a big problem because some companies (mostly Microsoft) bribe the people deciding which software will be installed.
    Police raids searching for illegal software only accept a receipt or a license with a hologram. These are mostly directed at companies and, recently, individuals who install or troubleshoot software for a living. Even if you use Ubuntu you'll probably be considered a pirate 'cause you won't be able to show valid proof that the software is legally purchased. Some companies sell an Ubuntu DVD plus a license certificate for a nominal fee.
    Another problem is the so-called "otkat" bribery: when a manager buys Windows for his company for $200, he may ask the store to sell it for $300 (and print a receipt for $300), and split the $100 difference between himself and the store's manager. Linux costs less or is even free, so less money may be extracted from its purchase.

    OTOH, I was recently applying for a new passport and the whole system was running on Linux. It automatically OCRed the forms and extracted stuff like signatures, placing them in a database. The system was very simple to use, the computer booted and the app started automatically, it was written in QT3; the OS was some kind of custom Linux distribution based on AltLinux (which itself was forked from an old Mandrake release).
    And, Microsoft started suing organisations using pirated software, the solution is either switching to Linux and spending money on training employees, or spending about the same amount on Windows+Office. If enough companies choose the first option, it may actually become the year of Linux on the desktop. Especially since the recent crisis lowered salaries and increased prices of foreign goods by nearly 30-40%.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) *

      Can you get Linux drivers for ICBMs?

      • Russian ICBM's have a mechanical gear box, you insensitive clod! (I am almost not joking.)

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by toby ( 759 )

      Corruption is a big problem because some companies (mostly Microsoft) bribe the people deciding which software will be installed.

      Happens worldwide, including the US.

      Police raids searching for illegal software only accept a receipt or a license with a hologram. These are mostly directed at companies and, recently, individuals who install or troubleshoot software for a living.

      And this is exactly what Microsoft wants to happen everywhere, especially the US.

      (If you don't like it, do something about it.)

    • I'm living in Russia too. Report of Linux use for issuing passports is a nice surprise for me. While Linux and BSD are not rare among grass-roots projects, you can hardly point to them in the commercial installations. Before one rushes in with a handful of counter examples - will you please check with recruiting agencies demand for Linux specialists besides masters-of-all-trade. What really amuses me - someone took seriously that PR BS. This government (and the one before that and another one...) can only w

  • Russian Linux distribution (Score:5, Funny)

    by K. S. Kyosuke ( 729550 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @04:04PM (#27800423)
    They should use some Russian Linux distribution. And use Russian Tux [nocookie.net] as their mascot.

  • When Gazprom decides that it's time to monopolize the Russian software market, we'll see what happens.

  • Russia made an Apple // Clone [vintage-computer.com] with no troubles. How come they cannot fork a Fedora clone from the open source code? I think even China was able to do that with Red Flag Linux. Maybe they can license Red Flag Linux from China? I am sure it has all of the Communist customizations for spying on their citizens built into it. :)

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by OrangeTide ( 124937 )

      Red Flag Linux is missing software used to track your bribes, so is completely useless for Russians.

    • The bigger question is why should they bother? They can just work on existing projects, put patches out and delay the decision to fork until if and when it becomes necessary.

      Otherwise they're just re-inventing the wheel.

  • Anonymous Coward (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I'm from Russia and it's obvious that the project wasn't aimed to provide a really good alternative platform but to make a buzzword and PR for initiators. The people who really do something, like Alt Linux or ASP Linux or Mandriva Ru get no support ever. And so is true for most independent russian companies that try to develop free or open source based products.

  • Sadly disappointed... (Score:5, Funny)

    by rts008 ( 812749 ) on Saturday May 02, 2009 @05:49PM (#27801131) Journal

    I was so looking forward to trying the 'Stalinux' distro, comrade.

  • Historically, innovation comes from top to bottom in Russia, not from roots to leaves. I am tired of all those silly government projects, when they see smth good in neighboring nations, and then decide to immediately develop "same thing, but of our own making". Or rather, allocate budget for this and consequently spend it together with their buddies.

    Would they really wanted Russian OS, they would fix juridical system first, for judges to have real independence instead of being on government's pay, and for i

  • That's what this will be (a mandated OS). And it will go the way of Ada. Not that Ada was bad - it is a fine language, but something of that nature done by a mandate, it might not be economical on the long run.

  • Who needs a new OS when there are lots of Linux distributions.

    There are some Russian Linux distros and what's good for them is that they don't have some legal issues because Russia is patent free as far as algorithms are concerned. They can add any features they want to make a customer happy :-)

  • From what I can grab between the lines the guy (Ponomaryov) wants to get a piece of russian bailout pie under pretext of creating "national os." This same line was played many times before in Russia, Ukraine, and China (Red Flag Linux.) Apparently Ponomaryov lacks connections with right officials so he does not know whom to bribe. That explains "lack of interest" from the ministry quite perfectly.
    If he eventually finds a bureaucrat who takes the kickback at best he would release CentOS with Russian as defau

  • When Ballmer announced that this year Microsoft will spend a lot of money on innovation (the Microsoft way) in Russia I suddenly remembered Russia's serious commitment to its national OS. Now I know my suspicion came true, I knew Microsoft's commitment is there to kill another Linux move, that they would bribe officials which, like in Spain, would result in a sudden drop/lack of interest to move to Linux, and that's exactly what happened. One must have less than 2 brain cells to not understand what's going
  • For now the Russian government is just a big oil/gas corporation. Sometimes they do some populist stuff, but that's basically all. All they care is their profit, anything else is being viewed from that POV. Why should they care about IT independence or something as complex as that? If they want to please a crowd, they'd better purchase an expensive soccer coach from abroad, or start talking about future space programs. OS development is not something that common folks understand, it's not something that giv

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