Right-to-Repair Law To Get DRM Out of Your Car 403
eldavojohn writes "Ralph Nader's back to hounding the automotive industry ... but it's not about safety this time, it's about the pesky DRM in your car. Most cars have a UART in them that allows you to read off diagnostic codes and information about what may be wrong with the vehicle so you can repair it. Late model cars have been getting increasingly complex and dependent on computers which has caused them, as with most things digital, to move towards a proprietary DRM for these tools, diagnostic codes and updated repair information. This has kept independent auto-shops out of the market for fixing your car and relegating you to depend on pricier dealers to get your automotive ailments cured. The bill still has a provision to protect trade secrets but is a step forward to open up the codes and tools necessary to keep your car running."
Re:Good. (Score:5, Informative)
The real problem right now is reprogramming data. OBD-II cars (everything 1996+ and some earlier) have standard protocol, connector, pinouts (kind of), et cetera. They also have standardized codes. But there are also manufacturer-specific codes which are only required to be provided for a reasonable fee which means (in practice) they can be presented as a book of text and they can charge you a hundred bucks. And most importantly there are manufacturer-specific codes which get sent to the PCM ("powertrain control module", what we used to call the ECU or "engine control unit"... but PCM is standardized terminology per OBD-II spec) which are used for tuning, for example for altitude.
Happening in Canada too (Score:3, Informative)
Right-to-Repair is also being fought over in Canadian federal parliament. Bill C273 just passed its second reading
http://www.righttorepair.ca/ [righttorepair.ca]
Re:The roll of the dice (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Good. (Score:4, Informative)
Also, generally if your engine light comes on, your car will go into limp home mode, which is a cut back operation that uses default configs and ignores either all or some of the sensors just to enable you to get home, or to a workshop somewhere without the working sensors.
Re:Good. (Score:5, Informative)
CAN is a wiring spec and a protocol and falls under OBD-II; You can read all about the SNAFU on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] but the short form is that there are five protocols including CAN, which is mandatory on 2008 and later vehicles. Wikipedia doesn't make it clear that CAN has been allowed for in OBD-II for years, if not all along, but that is indeed the case. AFAIK CAN is the most expensive of the protocols to implement, so some OBD-II interfaces don't include CAN support. CAN is also commonly used for communications between the PCM and the computer which operates the transmission, so your PCM might actually have multiple CAN interfaces, though only one of them pins out to the OBD-II connector.
Re:Good. (Score:5, Informative)
Time to spend more of my state-sponsored education. The mandatory light on all 1996+ cars is known as the MIL or Malfunction Indicator Light. The MIL lights when your vehicle's emissions are out of spec for any reason. I shit you not, that light is there specifically to tell you that your car is putting out excessive emissions. This happens whenever any of the "monitors" fails. A monitor is a list of conditions. Most monitors are "trip" monitors; a trip is a certain set of driving conditions. For example, if you run the vehicle at 50% or more load for a certain period of time and then coast for a certain period of time the car will operate the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve, and it then has a chance to test to see if it is working. There's also a comprehensive monitor which runs every so often (pretty often actually) and checks to see if any sensors are giving a value which seems exceptionally wacky, either on its own or compared to the state of other sensors.
The MIL will clear itself so long as the fault was not serious (IIRC there are four conditions) if the monitor which failed passes three times in succession. All this is from memory so, bear with me if I get something slightly wrong. When it happens a snapshot is also stored. This is some of that "black box" data that can tattle on you in an accident; the car knows the position of the accelerator pedal and how fast it thinks you were going (and usually also knows what gear you're in and how many RPMs you're making, anyway, from separate sensors/senders) as well as the state of every other sensor under the hood, and possibly some others. There may also be a CEL (check engine light) and if the manufacturer is feeling particularly benevolent, a "check gauges" (or even "check gages"... heh heh) light which lights if, say, your oil pressure is low or your coolant temperature is high, but not so high that the computer thinks that what the sender is saying can't possibly be right.
Anyway, when any major sensor/sender flails the car will go into limp-home mode. It will also happen if there are repeated misfires, but misfires cause at least one of the monitors to fail (I forget which one though, sorry) and should light the MIL. The limp-home mode will not only retard the timing and thus reduce performance and worsen emissions, but in some cases it will also restrict maximum speed. When limping home the vehicle usually runs rich, which can kill your catalytic converter but which helps reduce misfires due to many types of engine problem.
Re:I can access codes on my car without any tool. (Score:1, Informative)
Then again, BMW has build a few models that have no dipstick and no oil cap (visible, anyway)... :(
They bigger problem is that BMW has gone to runflat tires to save the space for the spare tire. Runflats are handy, but they are MUCH more expensive to replace. Winter runflat tires are even more expensive.
Re:DRM ? UART? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually there are lots of buses in new cars. CAN bus is used for component interconnection. LIN bus is used for sensors. MOST bus is used for car multimedia. FlexRay is the replacement for CAN bus but not yet widely used. That UART mentioned is just a diagnostic output.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
Washington was against political parties, and said so in his Farwell Address [yale.edu]:
In contemplating the causes which may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by geographical discriminations, Northern and Southern, Atlantic and Western; whence designing men may endeavor to excite a belief that there is a real difference of local interests and views. One of the expedients of party to acquire influence within particular districts is to misrepresent the opinions and aims of other districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heartburnings which spring from these misrepresentations; they tend to render alien to each other those who ought to be bound together by fraternal affection.
. . .
However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.
But not everyone agreed, even back then. Washington was the first and last President to not belong to a major political party (except, kinda, John Tyler, who was thrown out of the Whig party).
Re:some comments on OBD-II (Score:5, Informative)
If the mix is rich, and the computer KNOWS that the mix is rich, that narrows it down quite a bit. Then the only possibilities are the airflow sensor, or possibly the fuel pressure regulator. (Of course, if it's a car without an airflow sensor, it could potentially be the throttle position sensor or maybe the manifold air pressure sensor. But most cars rely on a MAF sensor nowdays.)
If the mix is rich, and the computer claims "fuel mixture lean" or believes nothing at all is wrong, the problem is most likely the O2 sensor, and the computer is being fooled into enriching the mix.
I think the codes are quite useful. They let you know what the car is thinking.
More complex than that (Score:3, Informative)
The ODB2 standard defined certain codes that had to be standard and certain codes that must be revealed and any $49 code reader can read them and potentially shut them off.
But manufacturers also implement extensions to those codes that are for diagnostic purposes or option enabling purposes that they do not allow access to except through proprietary computers which they sell at extremely high cost (high 4 figures) mostly to dealers or to mechanics who specialize in one make of car.
The problem is a "we work on all cars repair shop" can't have the diagnostic computers for all the makes let alone all the manuals that tell them how to troubleshoot the problem (multi-page flow charts), the parts on hand to make the repair a prompt one, the specialized repair tools necessary to do the job or the expertise to do the job right.
I have all the repair codes for one of my cars and all the repair manuals and a code reader. Doesn't mean I can or should do most of the work, (but it does help me keep the repair shop honest).
Doesn't mean a do everything shop is gonna be the right place to take my car for all the possibilities of failure either. I want a shop working on my car that is doing the same car day in and day out and thus has the computer, manuals, parts and expertise to do the job right and promptly.
All makes shops can do some jobs, but there are lots they shouldn't attempt any more than I should.
Nadar's request won't change this because the do every make shop will still not have the parts or manuals or expertise to do many jobs.
It is up to us as consumers to know what each shop can do and pick the right one.
Re:I believe in free market capitalism (Score:4, Informative)
OBD-II [wikipedia.org] is the spec. However, manufacturers tend to add all sorts of extentions and lock-out codes. With the right legal fanagiling, you could argue that these are copy protection schemes under the DMCA, or maybe just trade secrets. Either case is a government-enforced monopoly.
Re:I believe in free market capitalism (Score:3, Informative)
Big corporations generally screw you six ways from Sunday by buying up the law in one way or another. The more you regulate the economy, the more likely that guys who have connections will have the ability to ruin you.
Re:Good. (Score:3, Informative)
It can't, because there could be many causes, most of which mea absolutely nothing to a non-mechanic.
High cyl head temperature = bad thermostat or blocked radiator or failed water pump or broken belt or low coolant level(why? because the radiator has a pinhole) or collapsed return hose or 18 other things. For something so 'simple' as the cooling system.
Troubleshooting/diagnosis is quite often not so simple.
For those of us who CAN troubleshoot, the tools are easy to buy and use.
Re:I can access codes on my car without any tool. (Score:3, Informative)
Lots of cars were like this. I had a Mazda with with a few terminals. There was a screw to ground a pin to reset the codes. Another terminal you could put an multimeter prong in when you grounded another pin with the same screw. Then you watched the needle for the codes.
I had a Volvo that had a little box with a LED and a couple of buttons, very simple. These were early OBD-II cars.
Re:BMW vs. Mercedes (Score:3, Informative)
Odd, I chose Mercedes for exactly the same reason. Mercedes service information is available for all post 1994 models at www.startekinfo.com. The complete Electronic Parts Catalog ( EPC ) is free to residents of the US. Full DVD service manuals are available for models that are out of warrranty. Of course the techs won't tell you this, they would lose business. I do most of my own work on my CL500 and AMG.
Independent shops aren't locked out (Score:3, Informative)
Independent repair shops in the US can purchase the same tools and repair information that franchised car dealers can.
Details about individual manufacturer's offerings to the aftermarket as far as tools, service information, and training can be found at http://nastf.org/
You almost had me believing you knew stuff.... (Score:3, Informative)
...until you tossed out 1970's era emissions gear assumptions. Most modern emissions control gear actually works by improving the efficiency of the engine. Not all of it (have to put that here because it's /. and someone will point out catalytic converters and a few other things) but mostly, all that computer control fuel metering and mixture controls, increased engine running temperatures and variable timing (and so on) serve to make the engine run more efficiently, which is why there are fewer artifacts of poor combustion left over. The "smog pump" pretty much went out with bell bottom pants.
Re:This is a very old issue (Score:3, Informative)
Proprietary, not DRM (Score:3, Informative)
Back around 2000 I did some work on diagnostic tools. Engine- and emissions-related trouble codes are industry standard as defined by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). There are plenty of tools that will read these trouble codes. Where it gets interesting is that in various cars, the communication hardware could be UART-based, PWM, in the last few years, mostly CAN, but there were others.
A decade ago, I think it was under a consent decree, the 3 Detroit auto companies had to make diagnostic information available after one year. This being the auto industry, through incestuous business relationships one company got to collect the information, and of course they were the only source for the second year, and after that your friendly neighborhood repair shop could get the information from several sources.
The thing about vehicle buses is that they carry a lot more information besides diagnostics, and this "everything else" is held pretty closely by the auto companies. Dealers get access to at least some of it because repairs are where the cash flow is. Also, making warranty repairs quicker helps the auto companies keep their costs down.
Slashdot readers should realize that the world of embedded software inside the car has very little in common with desktop computing; automotive electronics resemble distributed systems more and more every year; and the shadetree mechanic is SOL these days.
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Informative)
Where is that?
It's sure as hell not the UK, or France. Heck, not even the scandinavian countries hit 60%.
Re:Good. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Good. (Score:4, Informative)
"Engine is hot, continued driving may cause engine failure and damage requiring expensive repair or replacement of the engine. Stop the vehicle in a safe location and keep the engine running."
When in park,
"Cylinder head temperature is dropping, do not turn off your engine, unless there is a safety issue. The cylinder head temperature gauge is measuring 477 degrees. Normal operating range for cylinder head temperature in this vehicle is 180 to 350 degrees. Operation with cylinder head temperatures above 450 degrees for more than a few minutes can lead to head gasket failure, lubrication failure, and will eventually lead to complete engine failure. Possible causes for elevated cylinder head temperature include cooling system failure, lean fuel mixture, and operation at high engine load for extended time in a hot environment. As long as the cylinder head temperature continues to drop quickly, the engine should be kept running to allow the cooling system to operate. This vehicle has experienced high cylinder head temperatures 3 times in the past year, indicating a possible intermittent problem with the engine, or operation in extreme conditions. Consultation with a qualified mechanic is recommended."
Later,
Cylinder head temperature is 342 degrees, this is within normal operating range (180-350). All other engine status monitors are within normal range. If cylinder head temperatures continue to run above normal your vehicle should be serviced by a qualified mechanic as soon as possible.
Most of this information is already codified in a reasonable form for the service techs, it wouldn't take as much effort or expense to put it into owner consumable form as it does to formulate a seasonal marketing strategy for a splinter brand (Pontiac, for example.)
One diagnostic that I could have used would have read something like:
The engine coolant temperature gauge is measuring 877 degrees. This indicates a lack of coolant in the system, or possibly a faulty temperature sensor. All other engine status monitors are within normal range. Recommend service with a qualified technician as soon as possible, the engine monitoring system cannot function properly without accurate engine coolant temperature information.
Instead, I just got a pegged temperature gauge and a check engine light. This, coincidentally, happened just after I hooked up a rather heavy trailer to a new-ish pickup truck. Freaked me out, but it was just a bad sensor, we were lucky to find a mechanic in a strange town who would fix it on a Saturday afternoon. If the light had come on 3 hours later, it would have been a nerve wracking Sunday driving 400 miles with the temp needle spiked, check engine light on, and nothing really wrong.
Re:Prediction (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Prediction (Score:3, Informative)
They've both been running to center trying to grind out the votes necessary to win without any concern for what principles or political values they're even suppose to stand for anymore. Isn't politics suppose to be the art of comprise[...]?
[emphasis mine] Assuming you meant "the art of compromise", that can be construed as "running to center". If "center" is the endpoint of a compromise between two sides, then you are vilifying them for doing the very thing you complain that they aren't doing, in the very next sentence.