Sun To Build World's Biggest App Store Around Java 325
CWmike writes "Sun Micro plans to launch an App Store that could make Apple's look smaller than a 7-Eleven by comparison, CEO Jonathan Schwartz wrote on his blog this week. Schwartz indicated the Java App Store, code-named Project Vector, will focus on PC users and estimated the size of the community at 1 billion. Sun plans to allow Java application developers to submit programs to a simple Web site so the company can evaluate them for safety and content before presenting them to the Java audience. Sun will charge for distribution. The company will reveal more details at its JavaOne conference, which opens June 2 in San Francisco, Schwartz said."
Software repository... (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with this idea, is that PC users already have an App Store... It's called the Internet. Or Walmart.
Seriously, there's no incentive to use their Java App Store on an open system (home computer) which is very much unlike with the iPhone, where you have to use it in order to get apps.
Geez, Mr. Ellison (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Probably the largest developer base short of Javascript.
2. Unemployment is through the roof.
3. Corporations looking for ways to cut costs.
4. Open Source hackers continue their enjoyment of food and shelter.
5. Oracle got Sun for pennies.
If this was your idea, Mr. Ellison, take another sailboat out of petty cash. You've earned it.
Java.com App store (Score:1, Insightful)
Didn't Sun already try this in 2003 when they launched java.com?
Today it is nothing but a PR site, but in 2003 they were actively trying to sell 3rd party Java apps..... and failed.
Meh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Still-born hype for JavaFX, Sun's shiny new device agnostic platform.
As we've seen with the recent article about JRE security on OS X, users are generally reluctant to run client-side Java. Swing hasn't managed much traction, with desktop consumers overwhelmingly preferring native apps. Somehow a new JavaFX facade over JNLP/Applets and an App Store will change this?
Phones may be a different story but I suspect any JavaFX adoption would be significantly trail iPhone and Android in terms of relevance. Perhaps 3 years too late.
What would Larry do if he were running Sun? :-)
Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, seriously, who cares?
Sun plans to allow Java application developers to submit programs to a simple Web site so the company can evaluate them for safety and content before presenting them to the Java audience. Sun will charge for distribution.
This model is meaningful for Joe Sixpack audience, which does need that click-click-click-bought, installed & running approach. But how many Java apps for that market you know? It's all desktop ones, remember, and Swing still looks and feels horrible on any desktop, from Windows to X to Mac. We're in double digits for the total usable app count, at best...
Server apps and development utilities/libraries? Java ecosystem there is OSS-centric a long time ago, and you aren't going to scare a Java developer with .tar.gz files, regardless of the platform - they have to learn to deal with that stuff for the most basic tools, starting from Ant/Maven, and for most handy frameworks, too. Then, of course, OSS guys aren't going to use a paid distribution service anyway.
In fact, Schwartz seems to recognize that no-one needs this for Java, and so:
This creates opportunity for everyone in the developer community - and specifically, for any developer (even those not using Java/JavaFX) seeking to reach beyond the browser to create a durable relationship with their customers
Oh, great. So it's another Sun product with "Java" in name which has nothing whatsoever to do with Java, except that your next Java update will run an installer with "Install Java App Store client" checkbox set by default. Sounds familiar? [ekschi.com] Don't they ever learn?
Schwartz goes on to boast Java market penetration, careful to mention " billions of ... mobile devices, and smartcards, millions of enterprise servers, set top boxes, Blu-Ray DVD players" - all of which, of course, having no relevance to the subject being discussed. But he has to, because if you look at figures for the desktop, it suddenly doesn't look so impressive. Frankly, I'd suspect that Google has a higher percentage of Toolbar & Search installs then desktop Java on Windows today. Not to mention Microsoft, if it decides to jump on the bandwagon... imagine an application store with Windows Update integration for purchased applications.
Re:Have they thought about the logistics of this? (Score:3, Insightful)
That is not correct (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing about the iphone, love it or hate it, is that the apps on it all use the same constrained user interface, and thus many of the same ui widgets and conventions.
Have you SEEN a good sampling of iPhone apps?
While there are some conventions around things like pinching, the UI is anything but constrained and app UI's are all over the map, very few apps use the standard widgets for example without at least some tweaking or changes. I mean this in a good way, because the wide variety of ways to input or manipulate leads to some great finds.
The only constants in the app store are the inputs for an app, not how an app might use them... people crave variety, and on that front a store that can succeed really engages people to discover different things.
Now the ironic thing is your summary was right on target - less is more. The most successful apps have focused very narrowly and done a great job in refining the UI for that task. To the degree that is possible in Java (and it very much is) the store could succeed.
Re:Java.com App store (Score:4, Insightful)
2004 called; they want their Java 'ecosystem' [eclipseplugincentral.com] back.
Re:You forgot something (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not really NetBean's fault. The JVM authors seem to take the classic computer science tradeoff of memory for speed to heart.
They unfortunately don't seem to realize that memory *is* speed, especially in today's world of pervasive multitasking, and therefore end up trading off speed for... nothing at all.
Re:Write once (Score:4, Insightful)
>Not to mention that we already tried that "write once run anywhere" approach about a decade ago...
>And we all know how "that" turned out.
Really, really well? Better than any other portability endeavor in computing history?
Re:Required sales pitch... (Score:2, Insightful)
Sun doesn't have sales pitches. They just add anything they want to promote as an extra 'feature' of their always running java updater / open office pimp.
Re:The problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The problem... (Score:2, Insightful)
Why not just build the app store on top of apt? It's already a stable mature package management system, all you have to do is add package restriction and a payment mechanism.
You could even call it the Apt Store!
Re:The problem... (Score:1, Insightful)
It doesn't matter if PC users don't want to use it... it'll still be installed on their computer.
Sun has the Java runtime distributed and installed on a massive number of computers around the world. Those runtime distributions will automatically update themselves in the future to pull in the new Java Appstore that Sun is planning.
People don't install the runtime by choice, they do so because something else they want to use relies upon it. One can assume that most people would just have to put up with whatever bloatware Sun bundles with the runtime, as they're already locked into using the platform.
There is a very good chance you'll get this Appstore whether you want it or not. Or at best, it'll be an "enabled by default" checkbox that most users won't uncheck (this would be by design).
Re:You will, eventually (Score:5, Insightful)
and iPhone is a sheer wonder of marketing genius by any measure...
Those who dismiss usability and design (and the network effect!!) under the gauzy umbrella of "marketing" are doomed to incorrect predictions until they learn otherwise.
Re:I wonder if it'll be coded in Java... (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, how does one build "the world's biggest app store" unless one can guarantee more apps than any other store? Unless they define 'biggest' by some crazy arbitrary measure like "number of servers in the server farm" or "physical footprint of the data center". To make them come, it's no longer enough just to build it. It has to be not only as-good-as but compellingly better than the existing options for it to be competitive. I wonder what they've got that makes them think it's so much better?
Re:The problem... (Score:2, Insightful)
Just to add on, it's only a matter of time until cell phone run debian.
Re:The problem... (Score:2, Insightful)
Why would the future let it go (Score:4, Insightful)
2004 called; they want their Java 'ecosystem' back.
I can't help but find it incredibly odd that someone would point at Eclipse as a "failed" Java ecosystem!
That's the very example of why one would think a Java app store might be able to work.
Why do we need this? (Score:1, Insightful)
*cough* sourceforge
The solution... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet people use apt-get instead of just downloading the tgz's directly on Linux, why is that?
Because if you do have a centralised app repository that is extremely easy to use and which contains quality, tested applications it's much easier to use than searching the internet for something that may or may not do what you want and may or may not be trojan infested.
equation (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
There are several "app stores" already for PCs, they've just concentrated on games in the past.
Steam [steampowered.com] is a really good example of this, including automatic updates.
Re:Better question.. (Score:2, Insightful)
All Java code runs under a security manager.
Wrong: see http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/security/overview/jsoverview.html [sun.com]
"Java applets and Javaâ Web Start applications are automatically run with a SecurityManager installed. However, local applications executed via the java command are by default not run with a SecurityManager installed. In order to run local applications with a SecurityManager, either the application itself must programmatically set one via the setSecurityManager method (in the java.lang.System class), or java must be invoked with a -Djava.security.manager argument on the commandline."