Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? 1354
JustShootMe writes "I have a question for my fellow Slashdotters, and yes, I realize I am entering the lion's den covered in tasty meat-flavored sauce. I have never been a very social person, preferring to throw myself into technology; therefore, I've been spectacularly unsuccessful in developing any meaningful interpersonal relationships. Lately I have begun to feel that this situation is not tenable, and I would like to fix it. But I really don't know how and haven't the faintest idea where to start. I know that I am in the minority and that there are many different kinds of Slashdot readers, most of whom have more experience in this realm than I do. So please tell me: how, and more importantly, where do you meet fellow geeks — preferably including some of the opposite gender — in meatspace?"
Learn to dance (Score:5, Interesting)
Go to a dance instructor. You've got the money. Pay for lessons. Then go to group dance lessons. Meet people there and then get groups going to dance clubs.
All your problems will disappear.
Unless you're a girl. All the above assumes you're a boy. You're a boy, right? OK, then go learn to dance.
Here are some ideas... (Score:4, Interesting)
Things I have found helpful (Score:5, Interesting)
The only place I actually enjoy shopping. . . (Score:5, Interesting)
Relax (Score:5, Interesting)
Fellow geeks? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why limit yourself to geeks? I spent years at various Universities trying and failing to meet women and it wasn't until I started doing stuff outside of my normal group that I did. I took up figure skating of all things and met my future wife. Now you may ask why a red blooded male would take up figure skating. Same reason I did cookery at school. No red blooded male would do them so there were loads of females and no competition.
Get out, take up a social activity. A friend of mine in a similar situation took up dancing and ended up meeting lots of girls too.
Yoga (Score:2, Interesting)
Posting anon since my wife is a geek (Score:3, Interesting)
Wife #1: Took community college courses in tennis and volleyball when recovering from a motorcycle accident. Lots of single women there.
Wife #2: IRC
Another suggestion: volunteer for your favorite flavor of politics. And if not into politics, some other form of volunteering.
Twitter! (Score:1, Interesting)
A really nice way to meet new people, then if some meeting of twitters is organized on your area you can absolutely meet the geeks you follow in person, including male and female :P
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, yes, it's Slashdot and supposedly the blind leading the blind on this question. r-d-r-r. I get it. But I've been enjoying this site for a full decade now (late 20s) and I find that whenever these sorts of non-tech/science questions come up, the responses are often some of the most highly thoughtful and interesting on offer. So as long as we're all here and considering justshootme's question of "where do you meet fellow geeks -- preferably including some of the opposite gender", I would like to ask about fellow geeks interested in meeting the SAME gender for said purposes implied in the original question. I find that this exceptionally difficult, as there are very few other gay dudes willing to tolerate discussions about supersymmetry or the history of thermodynamics or mediaeval history for more than a few milliseconds at most. Should I resign myself to the fact that my demographic is simply to narrow and settle? I am beginning to think so.
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Drive a taxi (Score:3, Interesting)
Do it part time. One or two days a week, even more if you want. This will force you to interact with the hoi polloi. The general day to day communication skills you learn will help you to communicate better with others, including geeks.
Where to meet fellow geeks? University is the only place I have ever meet such people... oh, and then there was linux.conf.au where my partner said that I actually looked normal rather than the usual "out of place awkward geek that I really am".
Volunteer to be an IT geek at an elementary school (Score:5, Interesting)
My girlfriend is a 2nd grade teacher. She and all her co-workers are single, female, very intellectual, super educated (masters degree is required), and very hot. Can't meet anyone of the opposite sex at work? They can't either!
Re:Here are some ideas... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm effectively agnostic, hardly ever read the Bible but can still spot an obvious confidence trick.
Get A Dog (Score:2, Interesting)
1) You will have an instant best friend.
2) You can meet people at your local Dog Park.
Play with him (or her), teach him to do tricks, scratch him on his belly until his leg goes crazy. You will both learn social skills as you train him. Also, I have found that people who love animals are generally kind and friendly. Best of luck.
Take salsa! (Score:1, Interesting)
That's what I did, and while I didn't go out on dates, it certainly helped with my confidence and learning how to socialize in the real world. If I ran out of stuff to talk about, it was no big deal since we would always rotate partners every 3-5 minutes. Plus, the women in Salsa class are socially awkward as well, otherwise they'd be going to night clubs dancing freely to hip hop.
It is not to say that all female students taking salsa class are dis-coordinated, but most of them are just as insecure as us guys. It took me a good 10 months of just to be confident being around girls without stammering with sweaty palms. Trust me when I say I have social anxiety, and tackling this was like trying to get over fear of heights by visiting the top of Sears Towers every Tuesdays and Thursdays. 10 months may sound a lot, but I needed all that time to develop confidence to engage in real life social conversations - of course, your mileage may vary. Salsa was a good practice, and plus I would tell my future dates that I could dance which was impressive to them.
A year later I found a great girl, and now we're in a great relationship close to two years. Salsa is more organic, but if you want something more precise with fewer moves (at least in the beginning), try tango. Either way, the ratio will be something like 4:1, and male dance partners are always in high demand. And when you discount the hardcore dance douchebags, the fabulous dancer, and the guy-who-got-dragged into the dance class by the wife and purposely fuck up every move, your odds for being the favorite dance partner only increases.
Good luck!
Get a motorcycle! (Score:5, Interesting)
I met my wife online too, but before that, a motorcycle did wonders for my social life (in fact, it was the bike that gave me the confidence to meet her in person.)
Before I had the bike, I was shy and had low self esteem ... I was dateless for over two years. Within a few weeks of getting the bike, I was getting 2-3 girls a week asking me out! Seriously.. a motorcycle turns "shy and introverted" into "dark and brooding". (But don't assume that every woman will ask you out - if one comes over and talks to you about your machine, chat with her a bit about the bike and offer her a ride.)
Some caveats:
My solution (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.meetup.com/ [meetup.com]
I had the same problem as you, when my ex-girlfriend moved out; she'd managed to alienate literally everyone I'd previously ever known, including family members.
I joined a Meetup group about 18 months ago, and was eventually made Organizer. I host monthly groups, and out of a resident membership of around 100 people, I get regular attendance of close to a dozen people now. There are also Meetups for just about every possible kind of general interest you can think of, including some which are purely for random socialising.
step one-Lock Nouns. (Score:3, Interesting)
MEET-SPACE.
"Meatspace" right when you're made out of meat. (Score:5, Interesting)
For one, if you're geeky enough to use the word in casual speech, you might well find people who freak out at such vocabulary to be tiresome, so using the term works as a kind of social self selection.
For two, read the wonderful short story, They're Made out of Meat [terrybisson.com]. Choice quote:
Cheers,
Re:Here are some ideas... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Really? (Score:1, Interesting)
The person asking this question here does not seem to be specifically referring to romantic relationships, but just where to meet other geeks that might share his same interest.
I disagree. Because if it wasn't romantic relationships, "gay" wouldn't be an important criterion.
But I'd say, dig deeper in non-geek milieus, there are geeks everywhere. I know one gay geek, he's a geographer/demographer/political activist. He doesn't consider himself a geek, but anybody who has 4 networked computers and a bookshelf filled with books about pivot tables and mapping, and (for no pay even though social security is his only income) does all-nighters generating technical output that almost no one understands certainly qualifies, even if he does have to call me when he has connection problems. Ok, he's 70 and not looking for a relationship beyond porn AFAIK, but he has counterparts everywhere.
Re:step one (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Learn to dance (Score:3, Interesting)
If you can't talk to chick drunk in a bar, no way you're going to strike up a conversation during dance lessons that will work out for you.
Huh? I'm the sort of guy that would never dream of chatting up a random girl in a bar, but whenever I go swing dancing I'm meeting and happily chatting with several women every half-hour. The atmosphere is just totally different from the bar scene and the women in the dance scene tend to be much more intelligent than your typical bar ladies.
Here's what worked for me: find a cause, and volunteer.
This is actually quite a good suggestion. I generally think it's a good idea to just try several different things and find what appeals to you.
Motorcycles and/or horses.... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you find a gal that is candid, then you will know that the similar stimulation factors involving the motorcycle's seat/vibration characteristics compare favorably to the seat/movement stimulus of a horse under saddle for said gal.
For you motorcycle-less, and horse-less dudes, there is still hope.
Howard Stern conducted an impromptu 'experiment' involving a powerful subwoofer that the gal could 'ride' astraddle of a sub-woofer under his control that achieved the same orgasmic results of motorcycles and horseback riding.
Imagination and creativity is your friend.
Studies conducted decades ago came to the conclusion [citation needed-too lazy to look]that date scenarios that induced adrenaline and other thrills increased your odds of getting lucky on dates...scary movies, thrilling carnival rides, riding 'shotgun' in safe, sanctioned drag races, bungee jumping, etc...all produced positive results far better than the typical 'dinner, chic-flick movie, then try to enter on delivery to domicile'(can I come in for coffee, or 'one for the road') approach.(there seems to be some correlation between adrenaline induced episodes invoking some kind of sexual arousal...may be related to some survival instinct or dopamine levels in the brain chemistry)
It seemed that the more novel the date setting==increased 'getting lucky' factor.
Exercise her mind and imagination with the date setting, don't be afraid as being lame for not following the time accepted formula..chicks dig getting a non-standard date...it shows innovation and 'outside of the box thinking', which will make them feel special and cherished.
I once took a gal to an annual 'Machinegun shoot' in Arizona, packed a picnic lunch.
I let her fire many different select fire, and automatic-fire weapons during the day.
We did not get 3 miles from the shoot and she was suggesting us getting a motel room to 'work off' the excitement.
Get out to groups that share your interests, and talk to any interesting(to you) gals in those groups to find likely candidates for dates.
Being turned down is just a filter to apply, not the end of the world, nor hope. Even if just talking to them gives you a platonic friend, that's still a plus!(hint:the more desperate you seem/act/come across as, the less chance you have.
A wedding band caused me to need a baseball bat to keep them away right after I got married!
Act somewhat aloof, but friendly to all for good results.
Somewhat shadier, but extremely successful, is if you have a friend that has a small child, especially a really cute 4-5 year old boy...offer to babysit, then take him grocery shopping. Make sure to take your 'little black book', as you will fill it before you get to the checkout line!!!!!
My college roomate (female-it was a 'big brother/surrogate hubby relationship-purely platonic..she was a single Mom, 12 years my junior, but convenient for us both at the time to 'set up house' together-we had separate social lives) had such a son, so I know it works(see shopping/babysitting tip above...I was exhibiting a 'nurturing/protective' attitude that long-term relationship gals were looking for subconsciously. apparently, and they came in droves and flocks!
I have found other effective techniques, but the bottom line:
1. stick to the truth at all times, it's much easier to remember 'one true story' that subsequent inquiries will inevitably expose/uncover, thus corroborate...it will happen!
2. avoid bars/clubs as 'girl shopping' areas, unless you are a 'knight in shining armor', and can afford to put up with the complications tha always seem to arise...still recommended against, but YMMV. YMMV adversely to exceptions more often than not-be forewarned!
3. avoid preconceptions and expectations, enjoy and treasure the jewels you find...even if they are not 'that right one'
4. beauty is not skin deep...beauty is like a properly cut, dressed, faceted, and polished gemstone. There are many facets that combine to make true beauty, which endures
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
> Why are enjoying science and gay sex mutually exclusive?
They aren't. It's just that you're applying two very selective filters at once, so few people are going to make it to the output stage.
Think about it this way: How many people care about your research? A few hundred? A few thousand? There's your first narrow filter.
Then you need one who is a homosexual male -- just for the sake of argument let's put that at 10% of the population, and assume your profession has a typical demographic. Even assuming your field is 80% male (the numbers don't change much even if it's 100% male), that means you just eliminated 92% of that few hundred or few thousand. At best you now have a few hundred candidates.
Then add in a filter you probably didn't consider -- they have to be close enough to actually meet and have sex with, and they have to speak at least fluent one language in common with you (you won't be able to talk shop in a pidgin dialect). Long distance relationships suck. Unless you are in a major hub location for your field, you can probably count the remaining candidates on one hand (in binary).
I think your best bet would be to apply the narrowest filter first -- start hanging out with people who care about asymmetric catalysis organic chemistry. Although most of them won't be interested, I know I (as a straight male) would have no objections to setting up two gay friends or acquaintances if I thought they'd like each other. I've done it before.
If it turns out my dating version of the Drake equation proves horribly wrong and there are millions of such candidates out there, then invoke Rule 34 and get rich. Or as George Carlin put it, "nail together two things that have never been nailed together before, and some shmuck will buy it."
Mal-2
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is one of those things that a nerd can't ask normal people and get an answer worth two cents.
Ugh, I hear that. I had this conversation when I was at a party and someone asked me why I was single. I let them know I don't go out much and I generally just don't intrude into people's life by imposing myself. I was told to go to church (I'm atheist) or online dating. It's like shopping for humans to me. The women get virtually prettied up and try to portray their better side and sit back waiting for a guy to hit on them. Nothing is different but the location.
Re:Get a motorcycle! (Score:1, Interesting)
I do agree with the motorcycle, it gave me a passion other than playing with technology, and riding will get you out of the house and out to see the countryside. You'll meet some of the most interesting characters on a bike and you will hear some good stories, and will gain some great friends. Join up with a local riding group, depending on where you live, there's always a few, and you're sure to find a group or two that you fit in with. There's also bike model specific forums/bike forums, just to keep your geek side going, and these are a good way of meeting friends, organising rides, etc.
Also, most geeks have rather good motor skills and actually enjoy maintaining/tinkering with their bike, so it's a nice hobby. It's fun to have a few beers with riding friends and trying to figure out what's wrong with your bike.
I've met my fiancee because of my bike, she rides as well.
get a life (Score:1, Interesting)
find some interests outside of computers. not just to meet people, but also to make yourself more interesting. If all you know is computers then what are you going to talk about.
hang out at bars on the weekend. This will be an excellent environment to learn social skills with "real" people. Take some friends if you're not confident going alone. You don't have to meet lots of people straight up, but just get comfortable being around people and eventually it will happen by itself.
Re:Fellow geeks? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Go old school (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, senior citizens are a good start, since many of them have grand-children. I am not joking, it works. First seduce the grandmother or the mom, to a certain point I mean, then be introduced to the daughter.
Make sure you get to the last step, of course
Meeting Women! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Don't forget to pull the trigger. (Score:3, Interesting)
If you think things are going well, and you feel a spark, initiate some kind of physical encounter. Start with casual touch (putting your hand on her shoulder, or on the small of her back), then move up to less casual from there
I've been able to get up to that point on a number of occasions, but never actually had any sort of touch. Just touching another person is awkward for me; the notion of deliberately touching a girl is almost terrifying. For the last most-of-a-year I've been living in Europe where a standard greeting is to kiss on the cheeks. But this hasn't really got rid of the awkwardness; although I can do it somewhat, it's just another safe point-of-contact like the handshake.
Can you give some advice on *how* this contact actually happens. How do you get yourself into the position that putting your hand on her shoulder or touching her lower back is actually physically possible?
I don't expect you to solve my awkwardness/fears: but if I can see how it's meant to happen, I can usually get over myself. I used to be socially awkward, then I pretended I wasn't, and now I'm at the centre of a number of groups. I used to hate warm weather (which is a problem in a city when it's often above 30 deg. C), then I decided I loved it, and I did. I had no idea whether-or-not I liked eggplant, someone asked me if I did when I was ordering it (to try) in a restaurant, and I said I did: so I did/do. I have a lot of free will/power to change my mind. (That said, I'm still much too scared to eat tomato—but that has the advantages of being a topic of conversation when necessary.)
The other thing I can't do is start a conversation/revive a dead one. I can kinda make it clear I want a conversation (i.e. not creepily, but just by using the normal sort of start-up "hey how are you" thing that results in a conversation when I'm talking to people with better social skills than me). That basically puts me at a disadvantage—as I said, I can have a conversation with people with better social skills than me, but not with people who have the same level or worse. (In fact, I often seem to be the centre of attention, a skill I've somewhat developed to allow me to control the attention given to me. It is much better than my previous approach of staying on the walls.) I have got some ideas recently, and it will be necessary to try them out soon.
This has been a great thread for me today, because I started out thinking my life was crap, and now I've written this and I've realised it's not, I just need to work on it.
Re:Not a matter of where (speaking as a girl here) (Score:1, Interesting)
As a chubby girl who is a nerd, I will say that if a clean overweight guy approximately my age asked me if I'd split a turkey leg with him, I'd say sure thing. If, upon talking with said guy, I found out he reads /. too, I'd be suggesting other things we could do together that would be geeky fun.
In my experience, that's not how it goes, though. The clean overweight guys approximately my age are attracted to younger, thinner women with prettier faces (that they usually can't get, but that doesn't seem to change what they want, and I'm not sure that it should anyway). I can get all the 50+ year old men, of all shapes and sizes, that any woman could ever want. Maybe 50 is around the age that guys realize there's more to women than physical beauty, and can appreciate my humor, my willingness to jump into a tide pool just because it's there and contains a tiny sand crab I wanted a better look at, interest in asking questions about anything and everything because I enjoy broadening my horizons, and my friendly, outgoing nature -- to say nothing of my ability to use shop tools that come in handy for robotics work, and to tell you what my name does to a document when it's typed in vi in command mode -- without thinking, "but gee, do I want to restrict myself for the rest of my life to just sleeping with that, even if she is flexible enough to do the splits and is enough of a realist that she would agree to an open marriage so that I could go get what I need elsewhere?". But just like the guys my age aren't interested in chubby girls, I'm not interested in someone I can't enjoy my current life stage with because he's already been there done that. (I'm not a bimbo model who'd marry an 80 year old billionaire "because she loves him").
Maybe when I'm 50, I'll finally find someone in my age range. I hate to wait until then, because there's a lot of fun I could have with a like-minded male nerd today, but it seems to be what I've been stuck with for the past decade and I just don't see it changing soon. For that reason, I can empathize with the guys my age who see pairing up with me as a "missed opportunity" in terms of their ability to spend the next 30 years sleeping with a supermodel.
Until then, I will remain a virgin, like at least a few of my male /. peers. I'm going to just hope that other women on /. have it easier on this front than I have, because I've had a particularly hard time of it. C'mon, how many girls have ASKED guys they were attracted to for sex, after going out with them a while? Betcha not many. Probably even fewer have been refused every time. It's not that I haven't been asked, but I've only been asked by bored single male friends who are not interested in me romantically (I'm good company, so I have a lot of those until they couple up), and by literally more than a dozen age 50+ guys, not by people with whom I'm in a dating relationship. I really, really don't want to grow old, but it's not like I don't see ANY benefit at all in doing so.....
So nerd guys, you think you have troubles? Try knowing that you've been refused for sex a half dozen times, when you're a nerd GIRL. (And yes, I've asked my friends, and none of them can believe that the guys in question would say no. In their minds, we were pretty equal on the attractiveness/social scale. Oh, and I've asked: I don't smell, either. ;-) It's just that my particular variant of nerd girl just doesn't seem to rate with my male peer group.)
Re:Go old school (Score:3, Interesting)
LARP's are fun and social, but they can seriously distort your social interactions for the rest of the world (such as meeting girls, of whom there remain very few).
Volunteer work, however, with your local Red Cross, animal shelters, and soup kitchens can't be beat for meeting different _kinds_ of people than just us geeks. They can use your help if you're willing to do the work, and even if you're not making friends as fast as you like, you can feel good about what you're doing for others.
The goth scene (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a small trick somebody not habituated to meatspace can easily pick up: if you wear all black, it's dead easy to look good (for some values of good, but still better than not bothering), and easy enough to finetune. Additionally, the goth subculture is particularly friendly to geeks, consisting (in places) largely of geeks.
Structured Social Interaction and Courting: Tango (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot has been said here allready, and a lot of it is important: Patience, Persistance, Success by volume of throughput, focussing on non-IT stuff, etc.
What can help is structured social interaction. That doesn't exist anymore and was lost throught the last 100 years - aside from very small and limited areas. One of them is dancing, more percisely: Tango dancing.
I got lured into it by a former colleague of mine, a teacher I once worked with. She asked me to join her in Tango lessons, since I have stage-dance and Aikido experience and she could use a little help. I agreed and didn't think much of it and expected to drop pair-dancing right after the course again. However, I'm *totally* hooked! Tango is a very hermetic scene - and for good reasons too - with own dance events called Milongas and an eventually very close and intimate style of interaction between the dancing partners.
As a super-geek and nerd I find that Tango covers a lot of aspects for me that would otherwise be beyond my controll:
1) People dancing tango are smart and more on the intellecutal side of things - no ultimate idiots or drunkards involved, as Tango requires a working brain (and a little more) to do. I've allways felt that clubs are stupid and pointless. Now I know it and have found a place where people go that think the same way.
2) Modern Tango and Tango Nuevo in particular still have the important remainders of formalized interaction between the sexes as seen around 1900 or so. You need to get confident in asking the next lady to a dance (or 10 dances as the case may be) but with pratice your confidence grows and even a turndown (which I've both gotten and also given) is allways polite and non-offensive. It's even possible to dance with ladies that don't even speak your language, or only a little. ... Like that cute slender Korean beauty thats currently visiting her local relatives and visiting Europe and will be at my favorite Milonga on wednesday again ... :-))) Asking to a dance can be done with simple gestures - no speaking involved.
3) All abount pair-dancing but also the special thing called Tango (Tango is not generic latin dancing - its an own thing) can be formally learned like learning programming techniques or a martial arts style. You can rehearse the steps and styles on your own or with another insecure member or your or the opposite sex. There are quite a few of those too, you'd be supprised. It also is a normal thing to switch leads and practice with members of the same gender, especially for men. That comes from the olden days when access to women was rare and wide and far between and you wanted to be good when the chance to prove yourself in leading a lady came up.
4) Lot's of people dancing tango are motion legastenics themselves, so if you put a little extra effort into it (I go to 3 milongas a week and take at least to classes with different Tangoschools) you'll be king of the dancefloor in no time. I had ladies lining up to dance with me last week at my favourite weekly milonga! Seriously. You can imagine how that feels - and it *does* feel great.
5) Tango is a cheap and fullfilling. Dancing shoes and some chump change for non-alcoholic drinks at Milongas and the admittance boil down to 50 Euros a month at max. And that's if I by drinks for two ladies per milonga. Which I rarely do.
6) Dancing Tango with a Lady is a *very* good method to find out if she's a good partner and mistress. It goes just as well the other way around. 3 dances and I'll tell you if the lady and I go well together. And we won't need to speak a word.
7) Since scoring a pickup is a secondary and having fun dancing is a primary for all people involved theres a lot of humor and nonchalence involved in all social interactions. You sit together with the guys and judge the ladies and the ladies sit together and do the same. Experienced ladies and the Tango instructors in your local scene will acutally come up to you and tell you that you sho
Re:Motorcycles and/or horses.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Even without that specially-designed sub, the right sound system can help.
Back in 1994 or so, around the time I had first met the woman who is now my wife, she and her then-boyfriend were visiting me at my apartment. It was a great apartment, being over a detached garage, because whatever I did didn't bother the neighbours.
So you now have the setup. I was talking computers with her then-boyfriend (who was my then-friend) and I mentioned a project called IUMA, which posted free music online in MP2 format, and I played some of the music on the little bookshelf speakers I had in the computer room.
Then we hit a song by Velvet Chain called Lovin Ain't so Easy which has a very deep, powerful bassline to it. Without any ill intentions, I said, "Oh, you need to hear this one on the speakers in the other room".
The speakers in the other room were a pair of 70's vintage Harmon Kardon acoustic suspension speakers with 12" woofers that could flood that little apartment with all the bass you could stand, and do it without ringing.
I pushed the "B" speakers button on my amp and the sound came booming in from the next room, to which my very-soon-to-be-girlfrend (i.e. my very-soon-to-be-ex-friend's very-soon-to-be-ex-girlfriend), unprompted, declared, "Oooh baby!"
Obviously, there is more to the relationship than this, and we have been happily married for 11 years, but it was one of the things that got the ball rolling.
Oh, and I still have those speakers.
good podcast (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Go old school (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed! Many of us doctor chicks are geeky and dig smart guys even if we aren't computer geeky (ditto for the lawyers I know).
Also, if you are under 35, the ratio is in the favor of you guys, so chin up. There are more young female MDs and veterinarians than male. In fact, vet schools are graduating at around a 7:1 f:m ratio. I'm pretty certain graduate schools are also putting out more female than male doctors.
Here's how I meet geeks:
Martial Arts - I used to do TKD, but I met my best friends in Krav Maga. Find one you like and not only will you improve potential exposure, you'll get in better shape.
Other sports: rock climbing, biking, kayaking... local groups often meet or organize for these. If one interests you, look them up.
Volunteering - what? It's just what it sounds like. More people are volunteering these days with their unplanned time off (layoffs/furloughs).
Mutual friends - know anyone in a grad program? That's likely to be a ticket to a target-rich environment. I know, this isn't as true in tech/engineering/math fields, but a new friend-group is the key to meeting new people.
Classes - if you are working on a degree, remember: stats is the great melting pot. All of the sciences have to take it.
Ren Faires - geeks. Many of them female. Lots of bosoms. Sharp, pointy objects. Things on fire. There are worse ways to spend money.
Online - there's nothing wrong with dating sites as an option. Some are even geek oriented, like soulgeek.com and gk2gk.com :-)
Good luck!
Kali
Re:Really? (Score:3, Interesting)
There are two sets of skills that a person needs to learn to develop relationships.
1) Socialization skills - How to meet people and appeal to them.
2) Relationship skills - How to not make people hate you over the long term.
Both of these things are skills that need to be developed, just like learning to code. Only they're a lot harder to learn, since instead of a computer that just tells you if things worked or not, you've got to practice on people, and figuring out what went over well is a lot harder. And instead of black & white specs for programming languages, there are a mountain of guides & non-succinct books that don't necessarily tell you what you need to know about people.
Nevertheless, once you find a good guide, learning is the same - practice practice practice. The more you practice, the easier it gets. Once you realize that embarrassing yourself is no big deal, it gets even easier.
As far as where to find & meet people, that can be done in many ways. I'll post on that later when I'm not so sleepy.
Re:Fellow geeks? (Score:2, Interesting)
THIS. I met my guy at a live music night in an artsy coffeehouse, not a geek-cred place. I 3 my geek guy. He was true to himself, not full of the BS crap I'm so used to- pickup lines, acting certain ways to "ensure" a date, etc. It wasn't about going home with him, so the pressure was off. So I ended up going home with him. And hey- complex mathematics are sexy. Mmmm quantum physics-related specials on Discovery...
Re:Great idea. (Score:3, Interesting)
That relationship left me with two (actually more but the rest are too discouraging to mention) insights: First, I'm happy I'm not that social a person; having your social life be equivalent to a part-time job really messes up your schedule. Second, I'm not entering into a relationship with a person with that kind of social life again. I'm not going to spend twenty hours a week meeting people I don't know on the off chance of perhaps actually spending an afternoon with my partner (if I even get invited/can afford to come along, that is).
I think you can condense those two insights into one: you learned a little about what works for you.
I'm not a very social person either, I like to recharge by doing as little as possible. My wife likes to go out every now and then because she can't stand just hanging around the house. The reason it works though, is that neither of us is at either end of the spectrum so we're able to meet in the middle. Some days we stay in and watch a movie and other days we go to the park or host a party. It's very important that if you don't share the same level of introversion/extroversion that you're at least able to reach a compromise. While you probably walked away from that relationship a little sore it sounds like you also walked away a little wiser. ;)
To answer the original question, I live in an area where finding local geeks is pretty difficult. To fill that need I communicate with them on the Internet and occasionally try to arrange meet-ups when I'm vacationing in their area. I dated a geek girl for a while in high school but found it way too difficult because we tended to end up in power struggles on the topic of computers. Even if you define yourself as a geek you shouldn't limit yourself to searching for friends and women in the same field. Try to diversify as much as possible.
Re:Go old school (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Really? (Score:2, Interesting)
Nevertheless, once you find a good guide, learning is the same - practice practice practice. The more you practice, the easier it gets. Once you realize that embarrassing yourself is no big deal, it gets even easier.
This is one of the problems. A lot of geeks are stuck mentally in high school, where embarrassment seemed lethal. The real world is different in two way.
First of all, most people are polite. Even if you are boring them, and they don't like you, they will just politely attempt to escape. Even if everyone, even you, know what they're really doing, we all pretend they did have some friend on the other side of the room they had to run over and greet, if you'll excuse them for a second.
Everyone has a polite facade called 'tact' and whatnot that means you don't sit there and laugh at people where they can hear you. But behind their back? That brings us to the second difference:
Secondly, the real world is big. If you have a group of friend, I won't lie to you, knowledge of your embarrassment can spread within them. But, hey, they're your friends, it's fine.
But otherwise, if you did something embarrassing, no one's going to talk about you, even people there, even people who you embarrassed yourself with by asking them out when they're way out of your league. Because they have no idea who the hell you are.
Likewise, when you attempt to meet someone else, she will not know of that incident at all.
A Possible Method (Score:1, Interesting)
Well - I have a method and it worked for me.
Step 1: Use the Census data to find where the highest concentration of eligible women are that meet your demographic criteria.
Step 2: MOVE THERE
Step 3: Assuming you can handle Step 2, look around and figure out what other real people wear - do your research
Step 4: Change your wardrobe (don't worry - she will change it again for you soon if you screw this up)
Step 5: Blend into the local activities (markets, dance instruction, church, country club, hunt club, *school / college*)
Step 6: Learn to eat sushi and other crap that women like so you can order when she does and like it (wow I never really tried it but I like it)
Step 7: Offer to have lunch at your favorite fast food place, when she frowns - say - "Okay - how about sushi?" Women dig it when you can recover well, but the fast food place shows you are not going overboard
Step 8: NEVER look at other women while you are with her - try to pay attention - look for flecks of color in her eyes
Step 9: Plan a date and make your move (go with a formula like such...)
The date: Plan for a physical activity followed by casual dinner. Sweat a hell of a lot. Suggest that you are too dirty to go to a nice place with her. Stop either at your place or her place to shower and change. If it is your place, it should be clean but not spotless. Use a clothes hamper and have stuff out that you want her to see - (vacation magazines, physical hobby magazine, home fix it yourself books) These show her you will take her places, keep in shape and do the honeydo lists. Be able to back some of it up. Okay - if you have not already made her your girlfriend once you shower and baited your trap.... Take her to her place to clean and get ready. Be prepared to wait. Read a magazine on travel maybe - and wait. Wait some more. Prepare to wait. Okay, if she has not made you her boyfriend by the time she dresses. Prepare to pay a lot of money - take her to said sushi place. Maybe the one next to either a chocolatier or marble slab creamery, or a place like an outdoor artsy theater/music something or other. If by the end of the date - you are still not a boyfriend... Make sure she knows where you will be as you had a nice time. Say you would love to go out once you get back from a short vacation to see a beach near her parents house. If she does not invite herself along to see her parents or you did not find out where her parents are... SHAME ON YOU. You want to see the older model (mom) to see what your wife will look like after you have kids.
If you drink or have other vices, do them with extreme moderation. You are quitting.
Okay - I am sure you think this is overplanning, but birds do it all the time. If you really need to stack the odds, then make the date just after Christmas when she is sad she does not have a boyfriend (new years is good) and try to shedule your beach vacation near Valentines day... If you have not closed the deal by the end of Spring - MOVE ON. If she does not like you in SPRING - you are hosed as biology or something is wrong.
If you find that you just missed, remember all the things she pointed out about other guys that she liked while you ONLY paid attention to her. Change one or two only. Leave something for the next girl to fix.
(I will tell you that this works. Think about it. Oh and remember this line for the intial pickup "Hi (and smile)", after a pause "My name is ****." If that line does not work, she is not looking for a relationship. Just buy her a drink if possible and look for another if you are in a bar. Be prepared to move on. If approaching a flock of women - be prepared to take out the wingwoman - usually a real pretty one has at least one. Ignore the pretty one and go for the wing - they are not expecting that. If you are lucky, the primary will interrupt politely to take over from her friend. If not, then the primary did not like you anyhow. But this will give her a chance to look you over without being obvious and
Re:My solution (Score:1, Interesting)
Ugh, have you actually found a group there yet that isn't spam? I went on a hiking meetup, and the entire time the organizer was trying to sell us on a new timeshare on the WA coast. In the Seattle-Iranian meetup group, it was all about selling term life insurance. The real estate group I went to with my sister (she's an agent) the organizer was spamming for his "wealth building" seminars.
No thanks. Never again will I be fooled by those jerks at meetup.com.
Re:Not a matter of where (Score:1, Interesting)
> flattered and decline or say yes
But the question of how often you get a yes is a very important detail that you're leaving-out. If you're an average guy, it's almost never. For me (successful guy w/ several nice cars and a nice house on a lake near Seattle), I have never gotten a yes. Not once. When I kept count, and I stopped because it was just too depressing, I was at over a hundred in a row w/o getting a yes.
Also, most girls are not "flattered." Usually they're angry that they're being approached by someone that isn't in the top 10%. Very often they're angry enough to try to embarass or hurt you. I very specifically used the 10% number because according to a study that a friend did the technical work on, the top 10% of single guys have 80% of the sex. The other 90% are left fighting for the remaining 20%.
Re:Here are some ideas... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life? (Score:2, Interesting)
Hmm... a gym might be a better option. Improving his physique would likely improve chancing of finding a girl... plus a good number of women at the gym are in good shape themselves.