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Microsoft Discloses Windows 7 Pricing 821

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the snow-leopard-is-cheaper dept.
It's the tripnaut! writes "Information Week has posted prices for Windows 7. From the article: 'The full version of Windows 7 Home Premium is priced at $199, with an upgrade from Vista or XP costing $119. The full version of Windows 7 Professional is $299, with upgrades going for $199. Windows 7 Ultimate is priced at $319, with the upgrade version at $219.' In a nod to the global economic downturn, it is interesting to note that prices are 10% lower than Vista."
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Microsoft Discloses Windows 7 Pricing

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  • by phayes (202222) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:45AM (#28467059) Homepage
    Seems like MS has realized that upgrading to Vista was useless as otherwise the upgrade from Vista should have been cheaper...
  • Overpriced. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by barnyjr (1259608) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:48AM (#28467097)

    Yeesh... apple is releasing snow leopard for $29 and microsoft is still pricing stuff like this? When will they learn that a lower price will likely increase the number of people willing to pay for it instead of pirating it.

  • Editions (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sleekware (1109351) * on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:49AM (#28467109)

    I'm glad that with Windows 7 Microsoft mostly reverted back to the kind of editions they marketed Windows XP with. It's now much more clear which one to buy when it is distinguised by Home and Professional, then Ultimate for the power user.

  • by ActionJesus (803475) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:51AM (#28467139)

    It seems to me that everyone I know has a pirated copy of windows: the few people people that have legal copies have them because they were bundled with the computer they bought. When was the last time someone actually went out specifically to bought a copy?

  • Re:Overpriced. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Darkness404 (1287218) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:51AM (#28467143)
    Not to mention that most of the people who purchase Windows boxed either A) build their own PCs, B) are a business C) are a computer enthusiast or D) are a MS developer. Charging this much for people who are high up on the technology chain is just insane, especially because these people know of alternatives and they see Apple with a cheap but better OS and Linux with a free OS. Plus, what is the point of ultimate? As far as I can tell its nothing but a rip-off, there were none of the promised features, and you would think that MS would give them a free upgrade to 7 but I guess not.
  • You Mean (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Ian Alexander (997430) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:52AM (#28467159)
    Microsoft expects people to pay for Windows?
  • by Ritz_Just_Ritz (883997) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:53AM (#28467179)

    Why should Microsoft care if the Win7 prices are "competitive" or not? They've got a captive audience consisting mainly of new PC buyers and existing corporate seats. I suspect they simply did an analysis to determine the amount that maximizes license revenue from those two fish in a barrel and didn't even consider the cost of other alternatives.

    Best,

  • by Xiph (723935) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:54AM (#28467195)

    well, it's just a minor upgrade to windows vista, so...?
    It's a good upgrade to vista, they've taken care of many of the big grievances.

    Windows 7 is not that big a change, so it hasn't cost that much to develop, so it's cheaper.

  • by Darkness404 (1287218) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:55AM (#28467205)
    Lets see, businesses do, gamers very often do (hey, if they have the money to buy a $1,000 Core i7 extreme CPU, 6 gigs of DDR3 RAM, a top of the line graphics card, etc, $300 for an OS is a drop in that computer's budget), as do people who are still stuck in the '80s upgrade mentality or people who have Macs and want to run Windows under Boot Camp.
  • by Fahrvergnuugen (700293) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:55AM (#28467209) Homepage
    I agree with you, but to be fair, Apple knows that 99.5% of every boxed copy of OSX thats sold is going to be installed on a Mac which they already made money on. And up until now, every boxed version of OSX (which apple considers to be an upgrade) has been $129.
  • Re:Overpriced. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by roemcke (612429) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:57AM (#28467233)

    They don't expect people to buy stuff at those prices. The prices are high so that they can pressure OEMs into making shady deals.

  • Re:Overpriced. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jason1729 (561790) on Thursday June 25 2009, @11:59AM (#28467269)
    Most of the people who will pay $29 for snow leopard paid apple for their hardware. How many vista users bought their hardware from microsoft?
  • Re:How.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mejogid (1575619) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:03PM (#28467321)

    Snow Leopards adds no significant (home-)user visible changes - most of the changes are architectural and under the hood, aimed at developers. You won't get developers using features that most users don't have, so you can't sell a platform based on developer potential alone.

    Apple has recognised this and priced Snow Leopard to tempt developers, so that they can use the same base in future OSes (Open CL, 64-bit, full Cocoa etc). On the other hand, Vista is that new base and MS doesn't really care if you develop for Vista or 7, although you could argue they should've priced Vista more competitively.

    Oh, and you seem to be neglecting the fact that Snow Leopard is only that cheap for Leopard users - Tiger users need to shell out $169 for iWork, iLife and Snow Leopard. And let's not forget that Apple uses software to sell hardware - users will upgrade to Snow Leopard then realise they need a 64-bit processor (so no first-gen Intels) and a recent graphics processor (last couple of years) to take advantage of the most of the improvements. PowerPC users will also need to buy a whole new PC to use the new OS.

    MS' pricing may not be as low as we may have hoped, but let's not paint Apple as the angel it clearly isn't.

  • Re:Overpriced. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by iamacat (583406) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:05PM (#28467365)

    Cue in to Apple ads where people are sent to Best Buy to find an operating system for fifty bucks.

  • Re:How.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Darkness404 (1287218) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:06PM (#28467373)
    ....And the $120 price is if you already have Windows, considering that Snow Leopard is x86 only and most machines with x86 CPUs shipped with Leopard (a few shipped with Tiger though) its really the most average situation for a Mac owner to only pay $30.
  • by CohibaVancouver (864662) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:07PM (#28467387)
    [flame suit on]

    I know much of slashdot would vehemently disagree, but for the majority of users, Windows comes 'for free' with their PC. They buy a computer from Dell or whomever and it comes with Windows, then when the buy a new PC 4 or 5 years later, it comes with Windows again. Virtually no one I know 'buys' the OS - They'll simply get a the newest / latest when they buy a new computer.

    [/flame]
  • by OrangeTide (124937) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:08PM (#28467403) Homepage Journal

    Should be a free update to Vista. Given the problems of Vista and the high amount of customer dissatisfaction with the product.

  • Re:How.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ephemeriis (315124) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:09PM (#28467419) Homepage

    How does MS think this pricing is competitive in the least? Snow Leopard is going to be sold for $30 for upgrades while 7 costs $120?!!?!

    Keep in mind that OS X is, to a certain degree, subsidized by the fact that it will only run on official Apple hardware. Apple doesn't need to charge as much for the OS, because you've given them additional money for the hardware it runs on.

    I'm not claiming this is the only reason their OS is cheaper. Nor even that it is a major reason why their OS is cheaper. But it is something to keep in mind.

  • Fear of Windows 7 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:12PM (#28467449)

    How many of you zealots have actually used the W7 release candidate? From the look of the comments, not many. It's a fantastic OS already, and I'm betting it will be very successful, increasing Microsoft's market share.

    Oh, but this is slashdot. Anything Microsoft = bloat, crashes, unsecure. Get out of the 90's.

  • Re:How.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thepotoo (829391) <thepotoospam AT yahoo DOT com> on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:15PM (#28467497)

    If you're asking seriously, no, the EU would not go after MS for reduced pricing. They only care if companies are abusing their monopoly position in operating systems to break into other markets (like media players or web browsers). Maintaining control of their existing monopoly in OSs is fine.

    (Personally, I wish these prices were twice as high, and that the OS included some sort of truly unbreakable DRM (yeah, right). Linux could use a boost in its market share.

  • by xxuserxx (1341131) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:18PM (#28467553)
    So a graphics card pushing more polygons per second than anything else on the market is not high end?
  • by _Sprocket_ (42527) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:26PM (#28467683)

    If you buy a new computer, it'll come with Windows 7. You'll wind up paying for it whether you want it or not.

    According to that pricelist, you're buying Windows 7 and getting a free computer that comes with it.

  • Re:Overpriced. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jozeph78 (895503) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:26PM (#28467687)

    Yeesh... apple is releasing snow leopard for $29 and microsoft is still pricing stuff like this? When will they learn that a lower price will likely increase the number of people willing to pay for it instead of pirating it.

    Sure, you only have to pay twice as much for the non-upgradable hardware to run it.

    $6100 dollars for 8 4Gb sticks from the apple store (configuring a mac pro). That's about $400 at newegg.

    It's crap to compare the price of Mac OSX to Windows. I'd gladly pay Vista prices to run OSX on a PC.

  • Re:Overpriced. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:27PM (#28467699)

    I've always considered Snow Leopard to be more of a service pack than a new Operating System. Comparing it's pricing to Windows 7 isn't fair.

  • by causality (777677) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:28PM (#28467707)

    Never saw ANY of the benefits/Ultimate Content that was promised.

    The upgrade from Vista Ultimate to Win 7 Ultimate should be free.

    That will teach me for buying a boxed, non-OEM version of Windows I guess.

    Personally, when I receive a promise from a company and feel that they didn't deliver, I show my dissatisfaction with that company by no longer buying their products. That is, I try not to support business practices that are abusive or unfavorable or fail to deliver. That works because in most markets there are other companies to choose from.

    If there were any real competition in this market, you'd probably be saying "that will teach me for buying Microsoft". Just think about that.

  • Re:How.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Graff (532189) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:29PM (#28467731)

    Snow Leopard is going to be sold for $30 [...]

    ...If you already have 10.5.

    Well if you don't have 10.5 already then Snow Leopard is $120 for the non-upgrade FULL VERSION pricing. Compare that to the equivalent Windows 7 Professional at $299. And yes, you compare the regular version of Snow Leopard to Windows 7 Professional. Unlike Microsoft, Apple doesn't cripple their product for the home user. All the "professional" features in Windows 7 Professional are pretty much the same as what's in regular version of Snow Leopard.

    Apple has 3 pricing levels for their consumer (non-server) operating systems:
    $29 upgrade
    $120 home (same as Windows Professional)
    $199 family (5 license version of home)

    You can get discounts on these if you are a student, an educator, or a developer.

  • Re:Overpriced. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sean_nestor (781844) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:30PM (#28467745) Homepage

    Not to mention that most of the people who purchase Windows boxed either A) build their own PCs, B) are a business C) are a computer enthusiast or D) are a MS developer. Charging this much for people who are high up on the technology chain is just insane, especially because these people know of alternatives and they see Apple with a cheap but better OS and Linux with a free OS. Plus, what is the point of ultimate?

    The boxed price is high because if it were lower than say, OEM or volume licensing, the purpose of volume/OEM licensing would be completely defeated. I can businesses having their techs go out and buy boxed copies en masse, then ghost over images of the OS to OEM computers purchased without an OS preinstalled.

    The home user is actually the LAST person Microsoft is interested in selling an OS to. Businesses doubtlessly make up a vast majority of their customer base, and since businesses make of most of their profit, secondary markets like retail will see copies of Windows that always cost more.

    Also, few business give a shit about Apple computers or desktop PCs running Linux. Once you tell A PHB that certain software unique to the industry your business is in doesn't run on Mac OS/Linux, the conversation is over. And so the "alternatives" argument is effectively useless, at least for the time being.

  • by BrokenHalo (565198) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:30PM (#28467751)
    I thought Windows was freeware...

    Well, I guess there are always those who will bitch and moan about the price, but who cares? There are free alternatives. And in the non-free world, the price is comparable to that of a new release of OS X.

    Ultimately it all comes down to choice. If you really want/have to use Windows, then pay for it and shut up.
  • by DeskLazer (699263) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:31PM (#28467765) Homepage
    I have really no issues with Vista to be honest, and Windows 7 seems like it'd be alright. But seriously, if you're going to have an opinion and criticize other users for what they've said, at least post under your handle and have some balls so it doesn't look like cheap attempts at astroturfing.
  • Re:Editions (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ephemeriis (315124) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:34PM (#28467813) Homepage

    I'm glad that with Windows 7 Microsoft mostly reverted back to the kind of editions they marketed Windows XP with. It's now much more clear which one to buy when it is distinguised by Home and Professional, then Ultimate for the power user.

    Personally, I'd like to see all the various flavors go away. Just sell Windows 7. Have a default load and then allow all the extra bells & whistles to be installed as add-ons.

    There's no good reason why an XP/Vista/7 "Home" machine can't join a domain or run terminal services, Microsoft just decided to disable those features.

  • Re:Wow, $319US! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by AndrewNeo (979708) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:39PM (#28467887) Homepage
    If you're stupid enough to think that your Windows installation is going to be automatically assimilated by a botnet (or you're stupid enough to let it happen), then you're probably stupid enough to let it happen on Linux, too.
  • Re:How.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Marcos Eliziario (969923) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:42PM (#28467957) Homepage Journal

    Where you draw the line between what comes preinstalled with the OS or not? Is a Windowing System a legitimate part of an OS? GUI toolkits? Does an OS really need a text editor as powerful as emacs (well, in that case we name the OS an hypervisor that is running the emacs OS)?

    Following this logic, ancient computer makers should have been sued years ago for bundling their OS on their mainframes. There could have been an independent market for OSes.

    IMHO, EU instance on this is essentialy a non-tarifary barrier on American products. I doubt they would act the same if Microsoft were an European company.

    By the way, Don't you think that there could be an independent market for Telnet,SMTP,NEWS and Gopher clients on Unix machines if they didn't bundle that into the OS. Why things should be different with HTTP?

    People seems to forget that the real coup for Netscape was that Navigator 4.0 series was really a piece of shit, and their earlier versions for Linux were even worse. Nobody cared about using IE 3, when Navigator was clearly superior. People forget that at that time even Netscape basically gave a finger for W3C Does anyone remembers the Layer element? In the same verge, Javascript was not a de-jure standard before it became de-facto. So all this story about not following standards have to be taken with a grain of salt when we remember those times.

    If for some sudden-reason Safari got from night to day 90% of the market share, don't you think that developers would go jumping to use all those -webkit-whatever CSS goodies, being them already standards or not?

    IE has been a terrible browser compared with other options. All of my friends use Firefox and Safari, and so do I. We don't need to distorct facts or make that into a black-and-white issue. Power corrupts. Microsoft had power and used it as any major corporation does. But to believe that Netscape Navigator would be alive and well if it were not for Microsoft bundling IE takes a little bit of faith.

    (Personally, I wish Microsoft to make a good OS, and Linux to be a good one, and I wish people had freedom to chose the shoes that fit better on their feet, I am not a believer on OS feeble deities and adore them. Rather I follow the True and Only God: The Flying Spaghetti Monster)

  • Re:IMO... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ephemeriis (315124) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:43PM (#28467973) Homepage

    An OS should never cost more than $80.

    Maybe $100, but that's it. An OS is basically supposed to make your computer work - not be the focus of your attention on the machine. It's supposed to more-or-less stay out of your way and let you get work done. I don't want to pay more for my OS than for the application I'm trying to run.

    System Utilities should never cost more than $40.

    I'd go as high as $50... But again, it's supposed to basically make your computer work and get out of the way. I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars just to keep my computer working correctly. And I sure as hell shouldn't have to pay another $50+ every year to keep getting updates... If I want the new version, I'll go out and buy it. If I just want the antivirus definitions they should be free... Or maybe some nominal fee to cover the bandwidth... $10 or so a year.

    Games should never cost more than $50.

    Especially not with how little gameplay you get these days... My son bought something for $60 (+tax) last week, played through it in one day over the weekend... I thought maybe he just skipped over side-quests or gave up and quit early or something... Read a review or two on-line... There's apparently about 6 hours of gameplay in the thing. WTF?!

    Productivity apps can cost whatever, based on the size of their target market.

    Agreed. If you actually need PhotoShop, you need PhotoShop, and it is worth your money to shell out hundreds of dollars for it. If you don't actually need PhotoShop there are plenty of perfectly good alternatives that are much cheaper if not free. The same thing goes for just about any other product... If you really need the features that Acrobat/Microsoft Office/QuickBooks/whatever offers, you can afford to pay for it. If not, use something else.

  • by Obfuscant (592200) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:45PM (#28467995)
    ...but who cares? There are free alternatives.

    Unfortunately, there are hardware vendors who don't bother supporting anything but windows, and if you use your computer to talk to the real world sometimes you are stuck with windows if you want to get the work done. Wine is nice, but adding layers of abstraction adds a speed penalty, too, along with the question of "will it work, I don't know, let's spend a week testing it ...", which has costs of its own.

    If you really want/have to use Windows, then pay for it and shut up.

    Please send me your email address so I can subscribe to your "I have money coming out my wazoo and can waste it on overpriced operating systems" newsletter.

  • by Ephemeriis (315124) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:52PM (#28468101) Homepage

    How much DO Windows and Office cost?

    How much are you willing to spend?

    The fact of the matter is that Microsoft has no standard price. They've got discounts and deals to fit pretty much anyone and everyone - you just have to know about them. Government deals, educational deals, developer deals, big business deals...

    It's ridiculous.

  • And Apple's Not? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bkaul (1235970) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:54PM (#28468141)
    Apple charges $29 for their OS upgrade, but the Mac user who's getting that cheap upgrade paid 50% more up front for the computer that he bought from Apple. Microsoft, despite selling a few keyboards and mice, is not a hardware company, and doesn't make its money by maintaining exclusive manufacturing control of the hardware that Windows runs on.
  • by billcopc (196330) <vrillco@yahoo.com> on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:57PM (#28468195) Homepage

    This sort of attitude is one of the main reasons why anti-piracy lobbyists get so much love from legislators.

    If you pirate Windows, why the hell would you care about "alternatives" ? And vice-versa: if you're a linux fan, you don't need to pirate Windows.

    One thing is certain: bragging about your hypocritical stance on /. is not going to make Microsoft lower their prices.

  • by causality (777677) on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:58PM (#28468207)

    Given that Win 7 is essentially just a Vista service pack by another name, I will not be paying several hundred bucks to upgrade. I'll stick with XP until it is unsupported, and then I'll switch away from Microsoft altogether.

    Thank you. I was starting to wonder if Windows users had infinite patience for Microsoft or if eventually a point can be reached where they get fed up enough to go elsewhere. People who have enough reason will display a "suck it up" attitude towards the difficulties of moving to another platform, which I won't downplay. You really will have to learn a whole new system and all the complications that entails. It will be well worth your time, however. Especially if you go with a Unix-like system, you will develop a skillset that will transfer to many other environments.

    $30-40 I might just have considered paying, after trying Win7 myself to confirm that the problems were solved. What *should* have happened, though, was a free upgrade to the equivalent version for anybody who returned a retail copy of Vista, and a $30-40 paid upgrade to Win7 or a free downgrade to WinXP for anybody who bought a PC with Vista included.

    That would be the customer-friendly option, particularly for a company which is certainly not hurting for cash and is well able to afford to do that. Really that just reinforces what sort of company you're dealing with. Now, I don't like Microsoft and I make no secret of that, but this isn't meant to be gratuitous bashing. I think your grievance against them is quite legitimate and that there's nothing wrong with saying so.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2009, @12:59PM (#28468227)

    - If my Linux system dies, I can restore in it under 20 mins, from a dvd backup, config files and all. Try doing that with windows, WITHOUT buying a $80 backup program

    - Linux has issues, Windows has issues, I pay less for one, and in my experience, get LESS issues.

    - Linux generally does not issue 'security' updates that restrict my ability to use my computer or media

    - Linux does not assume I am a pirate, and insist on scanning my entire system to determine if it is 'genuine'

    - WIth VMWARE/Wine I can run only other kernel, application, and there are no "virtualization" license clauses in Linux

    - I get a Free:
            - Compiler C/C++/ObjC/Fortran
            - Java Interpreter
            - Debugger

    - Driver support has long since ceased to be an issue. Driver quality is comparable or better than windows for most commodity hardware.

    - No CD-Keys to lose, No 'authorization' needed to run software

  • by aardvarkjoe (156801) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:10PM (#28468391)

    I've never paid a cent for any version of Windows and will not until they make a quality product that stops crashing.

    Currently running XP Professional SP3.

    So you're willing to use Windows (despite the problems), but you're not willing to pay for it?

    Yeah, that's really a great stand against shoddy software you're making there. Either that or you're just cheap.

  • Re:How.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Archimonde (668883) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:11PM (#28468397) Homepage

    True enough, but they ask only $30 for upgrade, on a system you already paid and bought. So there is no subsidizing when we are talking about upgrades. And in that light windows 7 upgrade prices are very high.

  • by Bakkster (1529253) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {nam.retskkaB}> on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:20PM (#28468557)

    honestly, I haven't seen any features yet that I really consider an upgrade over XP, so perhaps someone could enlighten me about why I would even consider buying an upgrade?

    Windows are stored as vector graphics in video memory under Vista and 7. Previously, they were stored as bitmaps that needed to be redrawn every frame. This enables things like viewing a thumbnail of a window from the taskbar (including video) and windows still drawing their last good state when the process locks (unlike XP and before, where the window will be plain white). It's similar to the OS X system.

    There are security upgrades as well, but this reason is good enough for me.

    How is explaining my favorite feature of a new operating system to someone who asked about the features a troll? In fact, how can pointing out good qualities be a troll at all?

  • by JonathanBoyd (644397) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:28PM (#28468709) Homepage

    Prices are set to maximise profit, not to reflect production costs. Your question makes no sense unless you think Microsoft is a charity, not a business.

  • by Chabil Ha' (875116) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:33PM (#28468797)

    Anyone who has been following the development of Windows 7 (and isn't just another uninformed Slashdotter) knows there is a lot of changes from Vista to 7.

    I think most of the griping revolves around the opinion that Windows 7 is what Vista should have been. IMHO Vista was a stop gap to an already tardy release. Windows 7 should have been Vista SP3. If you look at XP SP2, there were great strides made when you compare it to its gold edition.

    For $29 bucks I would heartily upgrade to Windows 7. Now, I'm not so sure. I am, however, ready to line up for my Snow Leopard upgrade.

  • by ozbird (127571) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:38PM (#28468859)

    That's because they haven't recovered the development costs for Vista, so you also have to pay for that if you purchase of Windows 7.

    Not my problem. Make the upgrade cost competitive, or I'll install Linux. (Oh, wait...)

  • by rwalker429 (1452827) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:40PM (#28468885)
    I disagree with the argument that Win 7 is "just a slightly better version of Vista". The implementation of PowerShell V2 and it's ease of use over WinRM are in and of themselves worthy of consideration from an administrative standpoint. Hell, Win 7 would be rather worthwhile to deploy just as a vessel for putting PowerShell on every machine and making my life as an admin a hell of a lot easier. The significantly reduced hardware footprint is pretty nice from a business perspective and some of the downplayed features like the Problem Steps Recorder could prove to be really useful. It's cheaper than Vista and, based on what I've gotten to play with in the Beta and RC 1, I don't think the price point is entirely unreasonable. We can joke about how they should be practically begging us to pick it up after Vista, etc etc. and anything more than "free as in beer" would have incurred some complaining but let's be realistic here. That being said, I'll still be using OS X at home. ;)
  • by eth1 (94901) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:43PM (#28468945)

    Going from XP to 7 would probably entail almost as many training costs as XP to Linux. I skipped Vista and went from XP to the 7 RC, and spent an awful lot of time going "Where the *F* did they move X to?!" (and/or "What are they calling THIS function now?!")

    That said, I have to say I was fairly impressed by the ease of installation and transferral of user files/settings.

  • Re:How.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jmorris42 (1458) * <jmorris AT beau DOT org> on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:45PM (#28468977)

    > Well if you don't have 10.5 already then Snow Leopard is $120 for the non-upgrade FULL VERSION pricing.

    I'm really tired of that bullshit line. If the boxed copies of OS X were "non-upgrade FULL VERSION" then Apple wouldn't have a case against Pystar. It really is time for Apple and you fanbois to stop trying to have it both ways. Either the "non-upgrade FULL VERSION" is what it says or it is just an upgrade that will upgrade an older version than the $30 upgrade does. But being able to run around saying OS X is less expensive than Windows (see the $130 FULL VERSION") yet launching lawyers at anyone who actually believes it is dishonest to the core. Decide one way or the other and live with the consequences.

  • Re:Overpriced. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Carl.E.Pierre (1223962) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:50PM (#28469065)

    Heres the thing though, that is exactly what people will see. Change the UI up a bit, and they will come en masse to buy this 'new' OS.

    Of course they will learn their mistake afterwards, but as the say, hindsight is 20/20.

  • by agressiv (145582) on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:50PM (#28469075)

    64-bit execution that works. XP-x64 has poor application compatibility compared with Vista-x64 and Win7-x64.

    I call FUD. XP x64 is just 2003 x64, its the same kernel. 2003 x64 is rock solid, and so is XP x64.

    Maybe you had a few things that didn't work, but it doesn't mean everyone did. It simply went by the wayside right away because Vista came out shortly after.

    But in terms of speed and stability, nothing beats XP x64, in my opinion. I'd really challenge anyone to come up with a significant list of applications that work on Vista x64 that don't work on XP x64.

  • by MrCrassic (994046) <mrcrassic@gmail . c om> on Thursday June 25 2009, @01:56PM (#28469191) Homepage Journal
    When the prices are cheaper, people will complain that it's not cheap enough.

    When the product is gratis, people will complain that it's not quality enough.

    You can't please everyone, I suppose. I think this is quite a good price cut. (Because $400+ for Vista Ultimate was always ridiculous to begin with.)
  • Re:How.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by iamhigh (1252742) on Thursday June 25 2009, @02:16PM (#28469465)
    Agreed. Also this "OSX is like XP PRO" is just crap. Sure it helps the comparison from their perspective, but it doesn't do justice to the situation. XP Home has just about all a home user needs. There is really no reason for someone not on a domain to own XP pro (geeks excluded). So please, start comparing it to the home version!
  • Re:How.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Penguinoflight (517245) on Thursday June 25 2009, @02:17PM (#28469491) Homepage Journal

    Microsoft was guilty of the 4 counts that you listed, and more. In Europe they were only fined for a, which is the reason behind the "N" editions of windows.

    The case in the United States did involve the 4 aspects that you mentioned, but it was bungled horribly.

  • by tomthegeek (1145233) on Thursday June 25 2009, @02:33PM (#28469739) Homepage

    It's true you can't please everyone, but $300 for the full featured OS is just ridiculous. $300 will buy me a CPU, Motherboard and a couple gigs of RAM. Add in a case and drives (which I have laying around but the average person can just re-use what's in their current computer) and you have a whole new computer. Let's see, what do I want more? A new computer or a basically meaningless OS upgrade?

    The only reason MS can price things this way is because they have a monopoly on the OEM desktop market.

  • Re:Really? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dr00g911 (531736) on Thursday June 25 2009, @02:35PM (#28469775)

    To clarify: I'm not talking about using a single sticker to activate a ton of PCs, which is certainly possible under the current OEM activation structure.

    To be sure, I have had no moral issues whatsoever pirating Windows in the past, but I consider paying $129-ish per machine to keep version and config parity on my modest home office render farm a bargain in comparison to any alternative (apart from Linux, but we're talking Windows at the moment). I built the machines, and paid to get XP64 OEM for each of them (legitimately under the license terms). I'll be paying to install a Windows 7 OEM on those same Core i7 boxes later this year, and the day that Microsoft refuses activation of an OEM copy on an honest to God homebuild is the day that their platform gets abandoned entirely. An upgrade from XP64 or Vista 64 is most certainly not worth the price from a SOHO point of view when you're dealing with 5-6 machines.

    I guess my primary point was that a full, non-upgrade, OEM copy of Windows is both cheaper and more convenient to own in the long run (and even the short term) than an "upgrade" retail box... and the upgrade boxes are retailing for pennies on the dollar less than a full install. There's no compelling reason whatsoever to pay for an "upgrade" box because it's incredibly inconvenient to have to reinstall from one in the long run.

    There is no good reason to ever purchase an upgrade copy from Microsoft given pricing, convenience and licensing terms. If your personal moral code objects to sticking an OEM copy of Windows (or education copy for even cheaper) on a machine that isn't technically brand-spanking-new, then fine... but for God's sake don't buy the upgrade copy. Just spring for the full retail install.

    You save about $20 off retail (which costs twice as much or more than OEM) to buy yourself about 3 additional hours on every reinstall, and that's the part that chafes me. Or you can buy the OEM copy that's far cheaper and is the exact same as the retail box, minus superfluous packaging and which serial number it accepts.

    Until it's as convenient to be 100% EULA-compliant as it is to fudge a little on the OEM terms I'm gonna continue saving money at upgrade time and not lose any sleep over it.

    So, Microsoft: make upgrade boxes less of a pain in the ass over the long term -- or make the price on par with the additional hassle -- and I'll consider doing things your way. I don't trust you, I don't respect you, but I'm stuck with you for certain apps. You'd do well to learn a little about customer loyalty from Apple.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2009, @02:38PM (#28469825)

    I wouldn't say application compatibility is a problem with XP x64 -- at least not in my experience. Drivers, on the other hand, are a fairly big problem. My sound card and wireless card both have working Vista x64 drivers, but no XP x64 drivers. And this is despite the fact that both cards were released before Vista was even out!

    XP x64 is a bit like linux in that respect - if you deliberately build a system to support XP x64 / linux, it works quite nicely. If you don't, be prepared for hardware support headaches.

  • by Tubal-Cain (1289912) on Thursday June 25 2009, @02:39PM (#28469851) Journal
    The GGP did say:

    adding layers of abstraction adds a speed penalty...

    Some of us still have 512 MB machines at work.

  • by hairyfeet (841228) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday June 25 2009, @02:59PM (#28470179) Journal

    Actually I bought an AMD 7550 barebone with everything but the DVD burner for $281 with shipping at Newegg, so at that price it would cost me more than the actual box to run it on. No thanks, I'll stick to my XP X64 that I picked up for $100 when some places were dumping it for the "New and great Vista" (BWA HA HA HA!) and it works really nice. Supports more than the 32Gb max memory this box will hold, runs all my old software and new, and only uses 433Mb of RAM leaving the rest of the 4Gb for MY stuff, which I care more about than flippin 3d windows.

    If they would have had the prices that IIRC Best Buy was talking about, with $49 for Permium and $99 for Pro then I would have bought it. But $300? No thanks. And working on PCs for a living you couldn't pay me to run an OEM like a Dell or Compaq. They are just crap compared to what I build myself.

  • by hairyfeet (841228) <bassbeast1968NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday June 25 2009, @03:28PM (#28470613) Journal

    Uuuhhhhh....You Do know nobody actually does that,right? They just take it to a guy like me who uses something like driverpack [driverpacks.net] and then uses something like Almeza [almeza.com] to install the programs. Makes my job real easy and the customers are happy. I actually use a driver disc on DVD, but the guy puts out updates often on Rapidshare and since I haven't downloaded the last .rar for the latest I'd rather it not be Slashdotted.

    And I know the Linux guys will hate me for saying this, but you really want to know why Linux didn't gain squat even with a super turkey like Vista as competition? Because of the trinity of shopping-Best Buy, Staples, Walmart. You see almost nothing you buy in those three stores actually works in Linux. The few things that do will require major research to make sure that you don't get the "wrong" model, and from nearly 15 years in the PC biz I can tell you folks don't research anything that costs less than a car. And no matter how popular online shopping is to us geeks, ordinary folks like walking into those stores and going "Oooh...Sale!" and putting stuff in their cart. And the odds are when they get that stuff home it won't work in Linux.

    Which makes sense, actually. Linus can talk about desktops ALL he wants, but as in anything all you have to do is follow the money to see that talk of desktops is bullshit. Red Hat, IBM, Oracle, all the companies that spend major bucks on development and support for Linux spend it on server not on desktop. That is why things in the server market "just work" in Linux. By contrast unless you can write your own drivers a lot of times with the consumer level stuff in Linux just "don't work". And please let go of that "It's not our fault, they won't write drivers for us" because that is also bullshit. It is COMPLETELY your fault, because there is no stable ABI and writing a binary driver for Linux and having it work long term is like trying to hit a dartboard with a bumblebee. And give it up the vast majority of companies will NEVER release their specs and code under GPL, okay? Not going to happen.

    So if you want to know why MSFT can release a pile of poo and Apple can "fart in your general direction" while having crazy prices and Linux can't catch a break, that's why. The stuff consumers want to buy won't work without research they'll never do. This makes returns 400-600% higher when selling a Linux machines over Windows, which makes Linux a more expensive proposition from a retail standpoint than Windows. Sorry, that is the truth and that is just the way things are.

  • by Clairvoyant (137586) on Thursday June 25 2009, @03:42PM (#28470769) Homepage

    Because:
    1) That OS is built once, then the cost of "producing" it, is nill.
    2) There IS a competitor (which gives you the exact same crap); free download.
    3) Because your CPU does not FAIL as much as your OS will
    4) Because your CPU will still work in 5 years. Will the OS?
    Anyone who can add anything to this list? :)

  • by EmperorKagato (689705) <sakamura@gmail.com> on Thursday June 25 2009, @04:15PM (#28471367) Homepage Journal

    I read your post as:

    Windows 7:

    I know nothing about the upgrades that benefit the developer and I barely understand the long list of updates.

    10.6 has:

    I know more about the updates

  • Re:Pirate Edition (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 25 2009, @04:40PM (#28471813)

    Look, mcgrew, your anti-piracy trolling is well known (you made it to my foe list years ago), but at least don't make it sound like all pirated windows have malware. You just have to know where to get it, as with any other software.

  • by Hatta (162192) on Thursday June 25 2009, @04:59PM (#28472219) Journal

    For example, if you buy a game console when there are enough games for it out already that you can justify the cost even if no other game ever comes out, then you'll never be disappointed with it.

    If everyone waits for great games to come out for a console before they buy it, there will be no user base for that console, and no one will publish games for it.

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