"In the fact pattern for this case, you have to know that the damage to the family is considered 'consequential' or 'indirect' damages - not actual damages. In a copyright suit, actual damages are the financial losses incurred as a result of lost profit from your work."
Joshua King, an attorney with Avvo.com, a site that provides attorney ratings and other services to help consumers navigate the legal profession, agreed: "Even if a court were to consider the father's lost business, those damages would be considered consequential damages." Three other lawyers who responded all said essentially the same thing.
So those were the points where the lawyers agreed. But what about a fair use defense? From years of reading Copyright FAQs, you probably know that the fair use doctrine allows third parties to use portions of a copyrighted work without the copyright owner's permission under some circumstances. As Mike Plumleigh, an intellectual property lawyer in California summarized it for me, the four factors that determine whether a use qualifies as fair use are:
Although, whenever I read a law or legal text earnestly claiming that such-and-such depends on this other list of factors, it seems ironic that the list is intended to "clarify" the meaning of the law, when the list items are often just as open to ambiguous interpretation as the original item they were intended to clarify. The acid test of whether a rule has been "clarified" is how much experts agree on how to interpret the rule in a given situation; if experts can't agree to interpret it, then it's no more "clear" than it was before.
That seemed to be the case in this instance, where I got a lot of conflicting answers from the attorneys who responded. Joshua King said: "The newspaper may well have a fair use defense even though they published the whole thing." Mike Plumleigh agreed with the likelihood of the "fair use" defense and gave a longer explanation (referring to his numbered list above):
"Not to go into detail of how a court might rule on the analysis, but here's my quick take:
- Under (1), the use could be found to be for criticism, comment and (by the paper) news reporting (and the cases also consider 1st amendment factors under this one)
- Under (2) and (4) the original work was not intended for commercial purposes, had little apparent market value, and is more a short statement of fact/opinion rather than having significant creative or other "authorship" elements.
- Under (3), all of the "work" seems to have been reproduced, but this factor would likely be outweighed by the others.
I haven't seen the published letter or the original journal post, so my analysis above might be somewhat different if what was copied was a longer essay about life in Coalinga or similar. Nonetheless, the market value/effect would still be an issue, and the criticism/commentary purposes could still tip in favor of fair use."
Venkat Balasubramani, a Seattle copyright attorney, cast a vote-with-caveats for the fair use defense as well:
Fair use is always tough to predict and fact-intensive. On the one hand, there's little commercial value in the letter. Also, the fact that she published the letter in MySpace may itself be newsworthy and the newspaper is entitled to publish at least portions of the letter. Overall, her copyright claims are weak, damages minimal, and the newspaper's fair use arguments fairly strong. (Caveat again the fair-use is fact-intensive.)
In the other corner, Phil Marcus, a negotiation and intellectual property lawyer in Baltimore, commented, "I do not think 'fair use' includes using a person's words to get them run out of town." Professor MacArthur said, "There is no way what the paper's use of the student's writings qualifies as fair use." I asked if the other factors wouldn't weigh in favor of the newspaper, since there was no apparently commercial market for the essay, but Professor MacArthur disagreed:
"The nature of the copyrighted work as a temporarily published work that the girl choose to pull off of her MySpace page. She has the right to remove her writings from her MySpace page and no one has the right to continue to distribute those writings in their entirety without her consent. So, number 2 is her favor (really, issue number two looks more at non-published vs. published, with non-published being afforded more protection).
In terms of number 4, the claim could be made the that there is an impact on the market. These are her personal writings. Perhaps, in the future, she wants to put them on her own web site and make a profit via Google's AdSense or via a pay for content web site. The newspaper, by publishing her writings, may have lessened her ability to charge for this piece/monetize it. I'm not saying she is going to do this, but this issue is something for a judge/jury to decide."
Stephen Roe, an attorney with Lathrop Clark in Virginia, was even-handed but leaning against fair use:
"Were she to sue for copyright infringement, I think the court would be faced with a difficult decision. Were I defending the newspaper and principal, I would certainly assert fair use, in that the purpose was for news reporting and comment and criticism. However, they would appear to have a problem, in that the girl's letter was not submitted BY HER as a letter to the editor, and thus was falsely attributed to her as a letter to the editor... A court may be willing to find that the principal and the paper were NOT within the fair use safe harbor, especially if she could establish ill intent. Were I hearing the case, I would be very sympathetic to her situation, especially given the relationship between the principal and the editor and the apparent mis-attribution."
So, three votes on either side. I myself would probably argue on the side of the fair use defense against a pure copyright violation, because the girl was not selling her work, and the principal was trying to convey the fact of the girl's dislike for Coalinga (which is inappropriate conduct for a high school principal, but not against the law).
I think the lesson here is that even though many Internet copyright controversies depend on what is protected under "fair use," that is much less clearly defined than one might hope. If someone blatantly lifts content from your home page and posts it on their own website for commercial gain, that's a copyright violation, but what if they only post excerpts for the purpose of "commenting" on it? What if you posted something snarky on your blog, and later took it down, but someone else archived a copy on their blog in order to show the world what a dick they thought you were? You may not know offhand whether these actions are protected under "fair use," but it would be nice to think that the answer exists, and that a lawyer could steer you towards it. No such luck in some situations.
Or, perhaps the more general lesson is that when seeking advice from lawyers, it's worth getting multiple opinions. Sometimes if a lawyer tells you, "I'm sure that I'm right about this, because I'm a lawyer," they really are right, as in several of the points above where they set me straight. But not always. And the way to find out is to ask four or five different lawyers and see what they say. I'm a member of a cheap legal insurance plan ($20/month) that entitles to me to call "in-network" lawyers for a few minutes of advice each on a given legal question. The provider probably thinks of this as a cheapo option for people who can't afford real legal consultations, but I think that 10 minutes of advice from 6 different lawyers, is enormously more valuable than one hour of advice from one lawyer, because then you can categorize their advice into things they agree on (which are likely to reflect "the law") and things they don't agree on (which are likely to be just their opinions).
If more legal debaters recognized this distinction, perhaps many bitter legal disputes outside the courtroom could be resolved by agreeing to disagree. Prior to a court ruling, "the law" is just defined as the consensus among legal experts on how to interpret a statute. So if experts are divided on a given question, then by definition there is no consensus and hence no "law," so what are they arguing about?
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Whatever the legal question (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not clear on whether the newspaper was complicit in publishing something they knew to be copyrighted. Did the principal send it in with a note that said 'Hey, I found this on the internet, thought you might like to publish it.', or did he simply send it in as if it came from her directly?
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Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:5, Insightful)
As several lawyers said to me while I was asking them questions for this story, the girl would probably have a better claim for "intentional infliction of emotional distress" and for "false light publicity"
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Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention creepy as hell. Good going, Roger Campbell of Coalinga High. Now everyone knows you stalk teenage girls.
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Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:5, Informative)
I don't believe it was a lapse on the part of the former principal, I believe it was a flagrant action with malicious intent. Not to mention creepy as hell. Good going, Roger Campbell of Coalinga High. Now everyone knows you stalk teenage girls.
Some info about the creepy old man: http://www.coalinga-huron.org/chs/administrators.html [coalinga-huron.org] You can find both his picture and his email address from that site.
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Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:5, Informative)
Reading elsewhere, the girl pulled the post from MySpace a few days after posting it, found out the principal had already passed it along to the editor, and asked them not to publish it. At that point, the publisher said they wouldn't, and then turned around and did it anyway.
But on the other hand, the editor in question was fired over the incident. Not much else the paper could have done at that point, one of the things about being an editor is that you don't have many people looking over your shoulder to see what you are doing.
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Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:5, Insightful)
But on the other hand, the editor in question was fired over the incident. Not much else the paper could have done at that point [...]
There's lots more the newspaper could have done (and, for all I know, they may have done some of this as well):
Just quietly firing the person who causes embarrassment for the company is frequently all a company will do, but it's never all the company can do.
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Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't understand. Why would you use those words together like that.
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Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:5, Informative)
Not presented in the summary, but still relevant, is the fact that the editor in question knew both that the letter was not submitted by it's author (because the editor and the principal were pals) and knew that the actual author did not want the letter printed (because the girl contacted the editor once she learned it had been passed along and requested they not print it).
As such, regardless of whether I agree or not with your statements, they are moot. This was a deliberate act by the editor and not a simple mistake.
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Re:Whatever the legal question (Score:5, Insightful)
It is telling that enough of the townspeople were offended by it that they boycotted her father's business out of business. I couldn't find the full thing, but unless she gave away the town's secret recipe for the world's best apple pie, or revealed that the town enjoyed ritualistic killing and eating of vagrants, I can't fathom what would get under reasonable people's skin that much.
Conclusion: Coaligna is indeed a town full of assholes.
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The wrong issue (Score:5, Insightful)
I would have thought the real issue wouldn't be copyright violation, but more of misrepresentation? The letter was represented as a letter to the editor from the girl, when it was not....
Re:The wrong issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:The wrong issue (Score:5, Insightful)
True. And what kind of redneck a-holes live in this town. Death threats... Running the family out of town... Over, their barely out of her teens daughters essay on why she hates the town. Like she is the first adolescent to feel this way. Didn't they just prove her right? What happened to being an adult and laughing off the antics of children rather than responding in a more childish manner oneself.
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Re:The wrong issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks for proving my rant accurate beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Sincerely,
- The 20something girl
PS: You still suck.
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Re:The wrong issue (Score:5, Funny)
and it is the Principle that should get hammered
The principAL should get hammered principALly as a matter of principLE.
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The real issue... (Score:4, Insightful)
In any case, there could be a good argument for damages (assuming a sympathetic jury), not from the abuse of copyright but from the assault on the family's privacy and business interests. However, this would be better if the suit came from the father (who lost his business) and/or the family as a whole (who suffered the consesquences), on the basis of slander (the MySpace entry portrayed the opinion of one as the sentiments of the entire group).
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed. I would look at this like less of a Copy Right issue and more of a digital trespass issue. Although, I think the digital side would be much easier to prove if you could get a conviction for copy right violation. While the newspaper has pretty solid grounds for their publishing, I'd be hard pressed to believe that the Principal could make the same arguments successfully.
-Rick
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The wrong issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? You think the proper behavior for the High School principal is browsing former students MySpace pages and if he decides he doesn't like the content conspiring to "Out Them". Really? Is this the kind of person you want in charge of your child's education? The entire series of events is unclear but if he forwarded the post as her to the newspaper at minimum he fraudulently misrepresented himself and probably forged her identification. Since this was mailed that would constitute Federal Wire Fruad...
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Re:The wrong issue (Score:5, Funny)
I agree, the best solution is to simply have people kick the crap out of him and leave him in a place and put him in a situation that will screw up his public life forever, Like tied to a bed in a local brothel wearing bondage stuff and a couple of shaved collies, take photos and call the cops that there is a guy in there with a gun. they come and arrest him, he get's exactly what he deserves.
but dont fire the guy, that's just wrong.
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Re:The wrong issue (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, this is, to a certain extent, a betrayal of the trust of current students at the high school, it sends a message that, even if you leave town, we know where your family lives, and if you do anything that, by the moral standards of that community is untoward (even if the rest of the world doesn't find it unethical - like saying you don't like your home town and you're glad you left), your family can and will be punished for it, outside the law, by the community.
Thus is the tyranny of small towns. I really wish the girl and her family had appealed, because I suspect if the case had reacheda court that wasn't as "tainted" by the region, she might have gotten an actual fair hearing.
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Tell her to file a suit (Score:4, Insightful)
Law is bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a computer-engineer-turned-patent-attorney.
My undergraduate degree was filled with (relatively) clearly-defined and immutable rules of logic and physics.
Law school was the polar opposite.
TL;DR (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:TL;DR (Score:5, Funny)
Girl regrets MySpace post.
Lawyers argue.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Creepy high school principal roots around former female student's MySpace page.
Hick town turns vengeful against family of student.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I love jokes that are as insightful as they are funny. I'm surprised no one has pointed it out yet, but I was always told the rule was "don't post anything to a website you wouldn't mind showing up in the local paper". Seems appropriate in this case.
This is a tricky situation to me; while the newspaper obviously has some pretty extreme ethics problems, it's hard for me to argue that they don't have the right to report on what she said. But then, they passed off what she had said as a letter to the editor
Re:TL;DR (Score:4, Informative)
Ok, slightly longer version:
1. A girl's MySpace rant was copied by a newspaper and her dad's business apparently went under as a result (?)
2. The girl sued the newspaper.
3. This reporter surveyed a bunch of lawyers about the merits of her copyright claim against the newspaper, in light of the newspaper's possible "fair use" defense.
4. He got a bunch of different answers on some topics, while there was agreement on others.
5. Reporter seems surprised that there is a diversity in the accuracy/quality of legal opinions. The reporter then waxes philosophical about the nature of law based on the lack of consensus from lawyers.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Great, now we're back to TL;DR!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Some years ago someone I was reading mentioned that you should always put an explicit copyright notice on your resume if you put it on the internet. Apparently unethical recruiting agencies will troll the internet for resumes and submit them to all their clients. This is a problem if you're trying to apply to a company your resume has been sent to, as company rules usually forbid directly hiring anyone who has already been submitted throu
How often do lawyers really say... (Score:4, Insightful)
Any decent lawyer knows that unsettled areas of the law are, by definition, unsettled. Cases can end up in court because the facts are in dispute, but they can also end up in court because the law is not clear with regards to the situation.
The most common answer you get from a lawyer are the words: "it depends." An undisclosed fact, a pertinent case not considered, or the whims of a judge and jury can all affect how a case would play out if tried.
A lawyer saying "I'm right, because I'm a lawyer" would be like a programmer saying "this program is bug free, because I'm a programmer." It just doesn't (or at least shouldn't) happen that often.
What's wrong with this town? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What's wrong with this town? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, I think that the people of Coalinga have, by their actions, proved incontrovertibly that Coalinga sucks.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What's wrong with this town? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's every small town and suburb in America, that's what's wrong with it. Insular, conservative, hyper-proud, self-important, sluggish, anti-growth, closed-minded, conceited, and delusional.
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Identity theft? (Score:5, Insightful)
The newspaper did sell copies, yes? (Score:3, Informative)
She is therefore, in my mind, entitled to the revenues generated -- some or all -- from the unlawful distribution of her work. It can't be lawful distribution, because it was a reprint of something already copied without permission by the person who submitted it to the paper, who was not reporting news or making commentary.
IANAL, but it seems fairly clear to me that damages include not compensating her for printing her work in whole (in order to sell papers) without her permission. I'd say she's owed something on those grounds.
Hmm. (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202429677896 [law.com]
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/04/court-your-myspace-page-isnt-private.ars [arstechnica.com]
And the court summary..
http://fsnews.findlaw.com/cases/ca/caapp4th/slip/2009/f054138.html [findlaw.com]
Interesting, I did not know of this. In the UK I think she would of had more success with the courts.
In any case it is common sense to watch what you post online. Once you click that mouse its gone, and you can never be sure that you can retract or recover.
Court Rules MySpace Posts Aren't Private (Score:4, Informative)
Following a visit to her hometown of Coalinga California in 2005, Cynthia Moreno wrote "An ode to Coalinga," and posted it in her MySpace page [law.com]. The Ode opened with "the older I get, the more I realize how much I despise Coalinga" and made a number of negative comments about Coalinga and its inhabitants. The entry was posted for six days before Moreno removed it but that was long enough for the principal of Coalinga High School to find the ode and forward it to Pamela Pond, editor of the Coalinga Record, who published it in the newspaper's letters section. Local reaction was swift. Moreno's parents say they received death threats, a gun shot was fired at their home and her father's 20-year-old business lost so much money that it was closed and the family moved out of town. Moreno and her family responded by suing for invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress. Now a Fresno based appellate court says Moreno had no grounds for her claim of invasion of privacy even if she meant her thoughts for a limited audience [findlaw.com]. "Cynthia's affirmative act made her article available to any person with a computer and, thus, opened it to the public eye," wrote Justice Levy. However, the claim for intentional infliction of emotional distress was not dismissed and a jury will get to decide if the defendants' conduct was extreme and outrageous. In the meantime the editor who republished the essay has been fired and lawyer Eric Goldman, Associate Professor of Law at Santa Clara University School of Law, wonders "if the violent and ostracizing community response to Moreno's post didn't in fact validate some of her critiques [ericgoldman.org]."
where is the full text of 'Ode to Coalinga'? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IANAL (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:You do end up sharing some of those rights, tho (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, but that's for YouTube, so it's irrelevant. The question is, what do you agree to in MySpace's TOS?
Besides, even if we did assume it was like YouTube's in that you grant YouTube (or analogously, MySpace) a right to redistribute, the redistribution in this case was done by a third party who never had that right anyway!
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:IANAL (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:IANAL (Score:4, Insightful)
Bollocks. It may not be called "fair use" but it exists.
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Everything is protected... (Score:4, Interesting)
...but copyright is the wrong battle here I think.
But how can someone sue for a copyright violation when there was no copyright?
There is always a copyright. All works are protected by copyright law, including this very post and yours (yeah I quoted you...if you wanted you could sue me but your case for damages would be weak, but you still have that right).
You would've figured that out if you RTFA--and you didn't even need to follow a link to do it! But, this is /. and RTFA is just not done here unless you are weird I guess--especially if you are trying to be first post.
Anyways, there is a problem with using copyright as the legal weapon in this battle. Since you are too busy to RTFA, this is why:
1 the work is NON-registered. Without registering copyright in a timely manner you are limited to actual, direct monetary damages.
2 the "work" is a catty rant on myspace--little to no tangible worth to that being supply exceeds demand by a huge margin and nobody has to pay to see it.
3 do the math: 1 plus 2 equals you get nothing in court. Daddy lost his business? Sorry. not actual, direct damages to the creator. Denied.
A civil case based on "false light publication" is a better alternative I'd think, as briefly mentioned in the article. The principal acted in appalling fashion and should lose his job and be sued into oblivion. Sad how such an immature person of such weak moral character could be in a position of professional responsibility like that. Perhaps a symptom of low pay and inadequate respect for the job. The newspaper also did very shoddy work in publishing the letter without verifying the source. I mean...that seems like a very basic common sense thing to do. Intent was clearly malicious and meant to deceive. Strictly speaking if the principal should have prefaced the letter with something like "this is what one of my students thinks about this town" and as a professional kept the contributor anonymous...and disclosed that he/she was the contributor of the letter not the original author. Teachers always tell students to properly cite works not created by them...it is disgraceful that the principal would not set a proper example.
Additionally, criminal prosecution should be pursued against those making treats. Either this girl said something especially offensive or she is right about her town. People who would utter threats or work to destroy the livelihood of innocent family members not associated with the author's statements hardly deserve to be called human beings. But, I suppose the author herself might have been a nasty person herself...I can't make those judgements conclusively without knowing the whole story.
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the heart of most of the copyright problems (Score:3, Insightful)
given the nature of computers and the Internet, almost every action one takes makes a copy of digital content - making the "automatic copyright" at the heart of the current problems. copying is using, which makes all content created near useless without specific permission (fair use aside).
it seems to me, things would work a lot better if copyright had to be claimed, and it could be claimed by an easy and free method, digitally (eg submit a hash to a central registry, get a number, and post the number with
Re:What about MySpace TOS? (Score:5, Informative)
6. Proprietary Rights in Content on MySpace.com.
1. MySpace.com does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post to the MySpace Services. After posting your Content to the MySpace Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the MySpace Services, you hereby grant to MySpace.com a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content solely on and through the MySpace Services.
from:
http://www1.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=misc.terms [myspace.com]
So it sounds like she probably retains the copyright.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Who is benefiting from the work? Isn't the newspaper selling copies of its papers? Don't you think this work of the girl's sold more copies? If the newspaper benefits from making copies of her work and has no rights to do so, then her copyright has been violated, hasn't it?
Re:Legal Insurance (Score:4, Funny)
I know that the internet is incredibly difficult to use, but there is this incredibly complex and secret thing called a "search engine" the most popular one is called "google" and it can give you what you are looking for.
It is insanely difficult to use, I gathered several PHd's together and they found what you are looking for. It cost me millions but I love to help the helpless...
http://tinyurl.com/n8499y [tinyurl.com] -- here is what you need. No need to thank me, it's my secret super power.
Now I'm off to help a Nebraska woman not insert her curling iron into an orifice.
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