Linguistic Clue Pushes Back Origin of "World's Oldest Computer" 141
Calopteryx points out a piece at New Scientist which suggests that the Antikythera mechanism may be even older than previously thought; an ancient Greek word on of the device's dials suggests the device may date to the early second century BC. The article is accompanied by a great animation of its (deduced) workings, too.
Re:Computer? (Score:3, Informative)
I disagree with you.
This not a free form stick and sand device.
It's a mechanical device that deterministically computes planetary data based on user input.
It's a highly specialized computer in my book.
Full res video and more info. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It it hadn't been for the Catholic Church .. (Score:4, Informative)
Ah to add an example the so called dark middle ages, were the foundation of the first universities in paris and there was a huge exchange between the scholars of france and granada (which was the science capital of that time)
The situation was simply that the roman empire was crushed and so in the european world science was lost what was saved mostly could be found in cloisters which also opened the first schools, the other roman world the byzantime empire still had it thriving but was constantly under war so they had higher priorities, but nevertheless all the science also went into the arabic world and from then again into europe!
Re:It it hadn't been for the Catholic Church .. (Score:4, Informative)
Not more than many other churches, as soon as extremists have a certain percentage every religion starts to suck.
There are churches on the protestant side and on the orthodox side which are so extreme that the catholic church looks like a bunch of liberal hippies compared to them.
Re:Is it a 'computer' ? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:It it hadn't been for the Catholic Church .. (Score:3, Informative)
That's 20 I suppose. Mendel died in 1884 [wikipedia.org].
Re:It it hadn't been for the Catholic Church .. (Score:4, Informative)
And build universities and schools and fund scientists. Funny how Europe can have so many old universities isn't it?
[citation needed]
University of Bologna, founded in 1088 and received a charter from Frederick I, King of Germany and Italy in 1158.
Salamanca - founded by Alfonso IX, King of Spain in 1218
University of Paris - founded between 1160 and 1170 and later recognized by Pope Innocent III (who was a graduate in 1182).
University of Oxford - founded in the 11th century, not by any pope.
University of Cambridge - founded by students fleeing the University of Oxford...
University of Padua, founded 1122 by students of the University of Bologna
in fact, here's a link [wikipedia.org] for you, where you can see that really not that many universities were founded by popes - especially outside of the Italian peninsula, and most of those were founded 200+ years after the first universities because Italy was starting to lag far behind the rest of the world. The renaissance may have begun in Italy, but if you look at the names of the great scientists, most of them are German, French or English.
I will argue that the pope's main interests in the universities was to assure that the "fourth" doctrine, theology, was taught properly, and that none of the other fields of study (law, medicine and philosophy) strayed from permitted doctrine.
An even earlier "device" for calculations (Score:4, Informative)
Full story in a Telegraph article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1388038/Mysterious-gold-cones-hats-of-ancient-wizards.html [telegraph.co.uk]
And, no it doesn't run linux but it may be possible to imagine a beowulf cluster of them.
Re:Full res video and more info. (Score:3, Informative)
Here's the thing. This is a beautiful machine, yes. It embodies tremendous amounts of skill and knowledge, yes. But then, so did creating the beautiful structures that remain in Ancient Greece that were well-documented and we know are about 2500 years old (somewhat older than this device). The flutes on columns of buildings like the Parthenon, for example, were cut by hand, and yet are demonstrably as perfect as those cut by machine in modern times. The skill to do such precision work -- by many workers, so there was a means to ensure uniformity across tradesmen -- and the skill to produce buildings with lines that are just-so not quite straight, making them appear to be straight ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon [wikipedia.org] ), makes it not surprising at all that the same populace could have produced something like the Antikythera Mechanism a few hundred years before the current date on the device.
Let's get formal. (Score:3, Informative)
If we define "computer" as "turing machine", then yes it is a computer.
People are using "IF-THEN-ELSE" as a touchstone for this. This is wrong. What the Antikythera machine is (if you're willing to encode the input and output digitally, which you may as well because of gear lash slop) is a Turing machine with an unwritable tape, otherwise known as an FSA (Finite State Automaton).
An FSA, since it's a Turing machine, does effectively do IF-THEN-ELSE operations. The important thing is that it is not programmable.
To put it in layman's terms, I could build a standalone computer that emulates the Antikythera, with the programming in ROM. It'll do everything the Antikythera does and vice versa, but nothing else. They are interchangeable. But mine does use IF-THEN-ELSE.
Years back people used the two phrases "Computer" and "Programmable Computer" fairly distinctly. These days the word "Programmable" has become implied, hence the confusion.
Maybe we should start saying "Nonprogrammable Computer" and "Computer" to clarify things.
Re:It it hadn't been for the Catholic Church .. (Score:3, Informative)
Have you read what you've quoted?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Decree_of_Theodosius.2C_destruction_by_Theophilus_in_391 [wikipedia.org]
"In 391, Christian Emperor Theodosius I ordered the destruction of all "pagan" (non-Christian) temples, and the Christian Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria complied with this request."
As far as I know, this is the most plausible version. Because Theodosius' decree is corroborated by other sources.
And the story of Caliph Umar is most probably a hoax.
Re:It it hadn't been for the Catholic Church .. (Score:3, Informative)
"Tell that to Geordano Bruno http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno [wikipedia.org] [wikipedia.org] and all the others who were burnt at the stake for heresy."
Only one of the charges against Bruno concerned any his scientific views (specifically, the one about there being a plurality of worlds). All the others were about various non-standard theological ideas he'd been espousing, and his investigations into, and writings on several types of prohibited magical practices.
It should be noted that (a) Bruno's trial lasted for seven years, so this wasn't a case of him being railroaded to the stake on a set of trumped up charges and invented evidence; and (b) although the Catholic inquisition found him guilty of heresy, it wasn't them who burned him, or even asked for him to be burned (they actually petitioned for him not to be executed because he'd partially recanted), but Rome's secular authorities, who had legal jurisdiction over him once the trial had concluded.