Cheap, Cross-Platform Electronic Circuit Simulation Software? 211
dv82 writes "I teach circuits and electronics at the undergraduate level, and have been using the free student demo version of OrCad for schematic capture and simulation because (a) it comes with the textbook and (b) it's powerful enough for the job. Unfortunately OrCad runs only under Windows, and students increasingly are switching to Mac (and some Linux netbooks). Wine and its variants will not run OrCad, and I don't wish to require students to purchase Windows and run with a VM. The only production-quality cross-platform CAD tool I have found so far is McCad, but its demo version is so limited in total allowed nets that it can't even run a basic opamp circuit with a realistic 741 opamp model. gEDA is friendly to everything BUT Windows, and is nowhere near as refined as OrCad. I would like students to be able to run the software on their laptops without a network connection, which eliminates more options. Any suggestions?"
Re:simple solution (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:CAD (Score:4, Insightful)
I use KiCAD and it works quite well for designing PCBs, though it has some rough edges.
However, the discussion is about circuit simulation in college, which has nothing to do with PCB design. KiCAD doesn't currently integrate with Spice unfortunately, though that would be really nice. I don't actually know of any open-source stuff that does Spice well. The SPICE engines themselves are open-source (such as ng-spice), but they have no front-end at all, so you have to do everything at the command line, which is really rather clunky when you want to, say, look at graphs of simulation results.
When I want to simulate a simple circuit (not often), I start up a Windows computer and run an old version of Pspice (9.something) which is freely downloadable. The state of circuit simulation on Linux is very, very bad right now.
Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)
For pro software, the OS is secondary (Score:5, Insightful)
I would say that it these students are in an engineering or science program, they must know how to use these tools, just like someone in a science/math program must know how to use Mathematica. That said, if the course in question is just a survey course, the specific tools may be less important than the exposure. For this there may be alternatives. For instance, an only breadboard simulator [york.ac.uk] is available. Google circuit simulators and there may be more available. I am not sure what is available for CAD.
Here is another issue. If the class teaches the design techniques and not the application, the maybe students can use whatever they want. What distresses me is that we are no longer teaching the high level concepts, but the mouse based menu selection. Instead of teaching the concept of cut and paste, we are teaching the menu commands. The problem is when the menu changes, the students are SOL. For career training, this is fine, but I think we should be teaching at a higher level for college. For instance, in my college, we were just told to write a program to solve the problem or create a simulation. How we did it using the available tools were up to us.
Re:Is a live DVD OK? (Score:1, Insightful)
The slashdotters aren't going to like this answer, but here goes:
"Who cares?" As a hiring manager I want to see programs like OrCad and Mentor on students' resumes, not some no-name GenericCAD. Given two resumes that are virtually identical, the student with OrCad experience is the one who will be hired, because he can start work the very first hour on the job.
So do your students a favor and stick with OrCad, even if that means some will have to use the Windows PCs in the public labs. I owned a Commodore Amiga in college, which of course ran none of the PSpice or CAD engineering tools, but I still managed to get my work done in the computer labs. Your students can do the same.
Re:LTSpice and SolveElec (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why are you even using demo versions anyway? (Score:3, Insightful)
No, if OrCAD is what he needs, he should pay for it. Or rather, the department should pay for it to be put on all or some department- or university-owned machines that the students have access to. The students have no real need to be able to do the work in the comfort of their own dorm rooms, although there is a convenience factor there which suggests using a package which also has an affordable student version.
But the reason students pay those high tuition rates is precisely so that the university will be able to afford the professional versions of tools (including software tools) that they will be using in their careers.
That said, the people who make OrCad would be pretty stupid to charge full price to a teaching institution. Not so much because of any ethical reasons (a university can probably afford full price. Their margins are high, and they bill on both sides of the equation: professors who also do research get soaked.), but because it is an excellent opportunity for indoctrination.
Re:Is a live DVD OK? (Score:3, Insightful)
You sir, are an idiot, or at least the company you work for is.
The last thing you should care about is what brand of software someone
used to learn engineering. This is tantamount to a building contractor
only hiring framers who use "Stanley model 13 hammers".
You should be trying to determine if a candidate actually knows how to
design and solve problems; not worry about what tools they used.
Of course I realize this is how industry operates. The depths of human
stupidity never cease to amaze and amuse, and sadden too, sigh.
Been there... (Score:2, Insightful)
Timothy,
You might find a version of your question pop up on most EE Boards at one time or another. Most people (including myself) had this sort of experience:
I started simulation with OrCAD/PSPICE/layout/ but I moved to Linux because I hated windows.
This is how it went down:
1. I refuse to use non-GPL software on my beautiful Linux box. I'll try the GPL/free stuff.
2. Damn hard road I've taken. I am writing SPICE code when I should be simulating and laying out my boards.
3. Ok, ok... GPL is out. That stuff needs a lot of work to become pro. Let me try the cheaper SPICE/Layout products.
Tried, all the cheaper stuff, http://www.islandlogix.com/ (is probably the best).
4. Ok, BIG snag need 8-10 layers with diff pairs and 30-40 multipin devices. I need a serious autorouter.
5. Eagle, Electronics workbench, all are worthless. Only Mentor and Cadence can handle this.
6. Hello OrCAD, PCB Editor and PSPICE. How have you been my old friends? Nice to be back.
7. Hello Windows. You still suck.
What I am trying to say here is: any serious EE should know Mentor/Cadence. Hate me for saying this and mod me to hell.
It is what the industry is using and your hiring manager will not give a shit about your GPL/Linux ideas. He's got a deadline and a set
of tools that work and he wants you to come in and start working.
Before I close, I would like to send out a plea to Mentor and Cadence: Please, please, PLEASE consider porting to OSX and Linux.
If you are the first one you will OWN the market.
And that's my $0.02 worth
Re:Is a live DVD OK? (Score:3, Insightful)
Then the question is, why you prefer OrCad? Vendor lock-in? Monkey see, monkey do? No clue? (Hiring manager != electronics engineer)
I think in those cases one might not want to work for *you*. ^^