Microsoft Says No TCP/IP Patches For XP 759
CWmike writes "Microsoft says it won't patch Windows XP for a pair of bugs it quashed Sept. 8 in Vista, Windows Server 2003 and Windows Server 2008. The news adds Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) and SP3 to the no-patch list that previously included only Windows 2000 Server SP4. 'We're talking about code that is 12 to 15 years old in its origin, so backporting that level of code is essentially not feasible,' said security program manager Adrian Stone during Microsoft's monthly post-patch Webcast, referring to Windows 2000 and XP. 'An update for Windows XP will not be made available,' Stone and fellow program manager Jerry Bryant said during the Q&A portion of the Webcast (transcript here). Last Tuesday, Microsoft said that it wouldn't be patching Windows 2000 because creating a fix was 'infeasible.'"
Yeah, right (Score:5, Interesting)
The U.S. Navy's and Marine Corp's NMCI [wikipedia.org] computing infrastructure is all Windows XP. Let's see whether or not Microsoft withholds a patch from them.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Funny)
Whatever. I'll just keep using XP until it crashes-and-burns, and then I'll toss this PC into the trash and get a new $300 PC at walmart with Windows 8 already-installed. That's my upgrade path.
BTW anyone want to buy a Windows 95 laptop? It's harmless (mostly).
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
BTW anyone want to buy a Windows 95 laptop? It's harmless (mostly).
Bah, I am holding out for a Windows 3.1 laptop.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Funny)
So a bit like the old saying, "That's like buying a dog, and then having to spend your time barking to scare off any potential burglars."
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Insightful)
Translation: "Sales of Vista didn't go well due to Vista being crap, and Win7 isn't actually all that much better, so rather than offer a product people actually want we're going to exploit our monopoly and withhold necessary security fixes from others in order to force people to 'upgrade.'"
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Interesting)
Hey genius, you do realize that Windows XP is still being sold, right? That brand new computers are shipping by the thousand every single day with Windows XP as the OEM-installed operating system? Can you seriously claim that it's alright for them to just walk away from a product they are still shipping because they have better things to do with their time? Did you give your position even five seconds of thought?
Congratulations, fucktard. Worst post of the day.
you are off (Score:3, Interesting)
wrong analogy, you are focusing on the wrong issue. Real analogy: Do you still expect adobe to patch the latest versions of their software as long as they are in business? yes. What if they had a DLL that was affected in *all* versions. Do you expect them to patch it with the latest version? Hell yes you do. This is not a car warranty, so that argument is completely null. Things that are on XP cannot necessarily magically be "upgraded" like you think, additionally why should someone even feel remotely obli
Re:you are off (Score:5, Insightful)
Your argument doesn't work either though IMO. For one thing software changes a lot quicker than car technology so I was being pretty kind saying 10 years for the car stuff. You might expect a dealer to service a 30 year old car, but you're probably going to have to pay through the nose for it (and I've read of at least one case where a dealer didn't have the parts to service a car because it was so old).
XP is not the latest software, it is simply the most popular. Even if the majority of people in the world preferred the original VW Beetle from the 30s (or whenever it started production, I think it was in production for something crazy like 50 years), it doesn't mean that VW are still obliged to find and fix design flaws in it. You'd expect a product recall if a large problem was found in the latest incarnation of the Beetle sure - but we're not talking about the latest version, we're simply talking about the most popular version, and it's getting out of its support lifetime. I don't think any other version of Windows has lasted so long.
In this case the WINE team or some group like that could probably produce a replacement version of the TCP/IP stack to stick into Windows, it would be the equivalent of having to buy 3rd party copies of OEM parts for an ancient car. Yes you can "keep it running", but the original manufacturer has stopped supporting it. MS are not shutting down all old copies of XP, they're simply stopping support.
IMO it would be nice of them to keep supporting it, and some companies would do so, but they have no obligation to. And it's definitely not MS's style to be 'nice'.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Informative)
Lets see... Kia, Hyundai, Mitsubishi and GM all offer 10-year powertrain warranties (that's "engine parts, transmission, drive system") on new cars. Chrysler's powertrain is covered for "lifetime" [cars.com] as long as you keep a record of proper maintenance.
Yeah, that's not "bumper-to-bumper" coverage, but TCP/IP is pretty damn close to an "essential" part of the car.
Car/engine = Netbook/XP (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, a car analogy. It's more like this: You go to the Honda dealership and take a look at their 2010 models and purchase a vehicle. You discover that the engine has a serious flaw in it and ask Honda for a fix. Honda refuses because that engine is based on an 8 year old engine design. Except in this case, instead of a Honda you bought a brand new netbook and instead of an engine it came with a new copy of Windows XP.
Re:Car/engine = Netbook/XP (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with all these analogies is Microsoft DID put a long warranty on XP, and SP2 is still covered.
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=8&y=10&C2=1173 [microsoft.com]
So the analogy here is, you buy a car. The manufacturer offers a 15 year warranty. 10 years in they find a flaw, they don't fix it and instead tell you to take it to a third party mechanic for a workaround at which point you find some lawyers and sue their contract breaching butt into next year.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Informative)
Apples and oranges. Took M$ 5 years to come out with a new OS and that OS was crap, MS even admits Vista is crap [theinquirer.net]. So it comes out with a new OS 3 years later but it's not released yet, no support for it.
So MS is saying "We won't patch XP because it's old, the Vista OS we patched is crap so don't use it, and the new Win7 OS has not been officially released so no support. Good luck!"
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
> They would also be perfectly within their rights to stop making
> Windows altogether and start manufacturing refrigerators...
Knowing Microsoft, it'll probably be their first product that never freezes.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
How does this rate insightful, when the fellow knows nothing about his topic?
Weird assertion: "Sales of Win7 are down so low MS isn't even promoting it in most places"
Newsflash: There is no retail release of Win7 yet.
Good point? "underpromise and overdeliver. They have been doing the opposite and wonder why people hate them.
Excellent diagnosis. MS should also learn how to sell to the business, preferably the CFO - not keep hyping 'features' to IT - often the most dysfunctional outfit in any org.
Wild claim: "There are lots of groundbreaking problems that people will not touch with a 20 foot pole"
C'mon! Cite a bloody reference, or just yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre!
In reality you make claims about Windows 7 sales that cannot be backed up - and use unspecific criticism to support the claim, without evidence. Allow me to explain some basics.
The bulk of Corporation and Government purchases? They already owned Windows 7, before it was released, through the Software Assurance benefit in their contract through their reseller. Microsoft measures "deployment", not "sales" with these folks... You know Home Depot, Wal*Mart, Hewlett Packard, General Motors, even Google.
Despite not even being offered as a public, retail item, Windows 7 will do very well on the day it goes to market. Retail sales are a tricky number. Most are through OEM installation on new computers - not shiny disc SKUs. So, for 2 months, these have been ramped through the manufacturing channels.
Let's talk in February - when the after-Christmas inventory purge is complete. Then we can compare notes.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Informative)
Both Vista and Windows 7 were sold as pre-orders for a reduced cost. In fact, Windows 7 is doing better than Vista at pre-orders:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/07/15/in-8-hours-windows-7-pre-orders-overtake-vista-pre-orders/ [crunchgear.com]
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
Sales of Win7 are down so low MS isn't even promoting it in most places.
Maybe that's because it won't be released until 22 October?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Interesting)
I just had to post an invoice to the marine corp's web site. I luckily had one computer at work that was not upgraded to ie8. It would only respect ie6 or 7, and had some issues if I just changed the user agent on FF.
If people keep being forced to upgrade their browsers, no one will be able to use the government systems anymore.
I'm sure it will be an issue for the little companies billing, but you'll never hear about it.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Insightful)
This is not Microsoft's fault. Talk to whoever created a web site that only works in specific versions of a specific browser.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
The Navy will simply subcontract-out to Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, and other defense companies to upgrade all their systems from XP to Windows 7 and fix any programs that "break" as a result. It will employ some 10,000 workers at a cost of 1.4 trillion dollars. Then it will fail to come-in on time, so they'll spend an extra 6 months and 0.3 trillion on schedule overrun.
That's SOP for the government.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, this isn't funny and may well be the type of attention-getting answer we need to this problem. People should start sending off some emails to their representatives that points this problem out. Microsoft says they are supporting WindowsXP until 2014 for security matters and other serious problems. I'd say this qualifies. This "move" on Microsoft's part represents a squeeze play against all of its customers not the least of which is the U.S. Federal Government. And with all the attention on money problems, it can't be ignored or written off.
I foresee a congressional hearing on the matter should Microsoft continue down this road.
If the government plans to spend trillions on this surprise upgrade requirement, perhaps moving to another OS might be another consideration to weigh in. We KNOW Microsoft will leverage its position as "the" OS vendor to do nearly anything it wants. We can't force them to behave. Perhaps the best thing to do is push the misbehaving child to the curb and use someone else's product.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
How about you read the article before you start yelling at your congressman? RFTA:
In the revised advisory, Microsoft explained why it won't patch Windows XP, the world's most popular operating system. "By default, Windows XP SP2, Windows XP SP3 and Windows XP Professional x64 Edition SP2 do not have a listening service configured in the client firewall and are therefore not affected by this vulnerability," the company said. "Windows XP SP2 and later operating systems include a stateful host firewall that provides protection for computers against incoming traffic from the Internet or from neighboring network devices on a private network."
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Informative)
Actually they wont have to do anything if they are running SP2 or higher. They wont be patching VANILLA XP BUT SP2 AND LATER ARE FINE. RTFA:
"In the revised advisory, Microsoft explained why it won't patch Windows XP, the world's most popular operating system. "By default, Windows XP SP2, Windows XP SP3 and Windows XP Professional x64 Edition SP2 do not have a listening service configured in the client firewall and are therefore not affected by this vulnerability," the company said. "Windows XP SP2 and later operating systems include a stateful host firewall that provides protection for computers against incoming traffic from the Internet or from neighboring network devices on a private network."
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Interesting)
XP SP2 and later are fine by default. What does that mean? Does that mean it's the only possible configuration? Or is it reasonable that an XP SP2 computer could end up in a state where it does have a listening service configured in the client firewall? Doesn't Vista include "a stateful host firewall that provide protection for computers against incoming traffic from the Internet [...]"? I should think so, so wouldn't that invalidate their reasoning?
I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is perfectly correct in not patching XP. The problem is how they communicate it. If they're patching Vista (a client OS) and they're patching Server 2003 (similar codebase to XP), then this makes it seem like they don't want to bother fixing XP, even though it's broken. If Microsoft had said, "the XP codebase is in no way vulnerable", I'd be completely satisfied. But they didn't. They said, "XP is broken, but by default it's protected".
That's not good enough.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Interesting)
Many people have compared defense work to "white collar welfare". I think the private companies are more frugal than that, since they are constantly cutting costs & laying-off workers, but having worked at the FAA it seems like a sound argument. I saw government workers sitting around doing nothing but surfing the net day-after-day. The FAA could lay-off 75% of the workforce and not notice any drop in output.
But of course if the FAA did that, then the politicians who represent those workers would scream bloody murder, and the layoffs would be canceled.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, that, and I think you'd find that the ones getting laid off wouldn't be the cruft. They'd lay off the productive workers preferentially.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Funny)
I have a friend who just got hired into group A working for the DOD. His job is to track how the stimulus money gets spent in group B. Actually his entire groups job is to track that money. Guess what group B's job is? Track how the money gets spent in group A. It's so ludicrous that you can't make this stuff up.
It's white collar welfare and has been for years. It's the advanced version of dig a hole and fill it in.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Funny)
Two blonde girls were working for the county public works department. One would dig a hole and the other would follow behind her and fill the hole in. They worked up one side of the street, then down the other, then moved on to the next street, working furiously all day without rest, one girl digging a hole, the other girl filling it in again.
An onlooker was amazed at their hard work, but couldn't understand what they were doing. So he asked the hole digger, "I'm impressed by the effort you two are putting in to your work, but I don't get it... why do you dig a hole, only to have your partner follow behind and fill it up again?"
The hole digger wiped her brow and sighed, "Well, I suppose it probably looks odd because we're normally a three-person team. But today the girl who plants the trees called in sick."
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Apparently they mispronounced "unprofitable". Because that's why they're not doing it, they don't want to spend the money and plus they want everyone to (pay for the) upgrade to Windows 7.
It's pretty much standard operating procedure for most corporations.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
Except I bought a brand NEW license of XP on my Acer netbook less than 1 year ago. That means Microsoft received NEW payment for that license in the last year (and a bunch of others) so obviously they're making money on it. Unlike patching cars you don't have to make additional parts, once you fix the problem in one copy of XP it is near-zero to fix the problem for ALL XPs as they're exactly the same.
My local stores still sell NEW netbooks with NEW licenses of XP on them... where's bug support for the new buyers?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe they should stop offering XP licenses then. (So what if it makes some room in the market for ubuntu netbook remix)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Heaven forbid they try to make money off of it instead of offering insane 15 year + support.
FreeBSD started as a branch of BSD, which began around 1977. Somehow a group of volunteers manages to support 32 year old code.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
US Navy already ditching M$ (Score:5, Interesting)
The U.S. Navy's and Marine Corp's NMCI computing infrastructure is all Windows XP. Let's see whether or not Microsoft withholds a patch from them.
Since 2008, the US Navy will acquire only systems based on open technologies and standards. That excludes M$ products explicitly in every way but name. The TCP/IP being just one example of failure on M$ part to implement standards. US Navy is ditching M$ [fcw.com].
They'll probably go with an American company like Red Hat or roll their own spin of Red Hat.
The question remaining is will Bill's father's political connections keep lil Bill out of Camp X-Ray or not? If you've got Windows on your network, then you have a personnel problem, not just a network security problem.
Re:US Navy already ditching M$ (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:US Navy already ditching M$ (Score:4, Informative)
The question remaining is will Bill's father's political connections keep lil Bill out of Camp X-Ray or not?
You are being ridiculous. Microsoft under Bill Gates got a free pass from Ashcroft. The Gates Foundation is part of a program to push western IP law throughout the world; if you don't provide patent and other protections for big pharma, you don't get any inoculations. At the same time, the Gates foundation is making for-profit investments in things like oil refineries which are causing lung bleeding in children they're providing inoculation to. Meanwhile, the stated goal of eliminating certain diseases is impossible because the restrictions the foundation is placing mean that not all nations will pick up the inoculations, and a partial cure is no cure.
Bill Gates is now part of the power structure controlling America and attempting to use it to control the world. Barring some one-step-away-from-a-persian-cat-and-a-monocle actions by BillyG, his future is secure.
Re:US Navy already ditching M$ (Score:4, Insightful)
Red-Hat is commercial product. They're moving to the best of the two worlds: a cheap commercial product which they *can* adapt to their needs.
Wouldn't SynAttackProtect work here? (on 2000 too) (Score:3, Interesting)
The DOS/DDOS possible via the latest weakness in Windows 2000's IP stack @ least (uses RDR20.DLL as the LSP (layered service provider) vs. MSWSOCK.DLL (the LSP used in XP/Server 2003 onwards, by way of comparison, & this is where I think the problem lies largely, as it is the "most radically different part" of the IP stack in Windows 2000 vs. the more current builds of Windows that I could see @ least)?
WELL - That's taken care of by the SynAttackProtect setting here -> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Curre
Re:Wouldn't SynAttackProtect work here? (on 2000 t (Score:3, Funny)
Halliburton (Score:3, Interesting)
Why not? The Pentagon continued using Halliburton for years, on huge no-bid contracts, even when its divisions were installing showers in Iraq that electrocuted our servicemembers. And that's just the worst failure the public heard about, after most of a decade of abusive cronyism.
Microsoft is much richer than even Halliburton, and its failures much less publicly scandalous. Why would it face a tougher standard? I'm sure Dick Cheney owns a lot of Microsoft stock, too.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Funny)
The U.S. Navy's and Marine Corp's NMCI computing infrastructure is all Windows XP.
I questioned the Navy's IT management for years, failing to see the long term wisdom behind the program and thinking it was a pork spending program awarded to political insiders. But, I'm forced to admit NMCI has been tremendously successful at bringing productivity to a near stand still. Patching computers no one can use is hardly even necessary.
As a bonus the Navy has an inexhaustible supply of boat anchors!
Absolutely brilliant.
Unclear (Score:5, Interesting)
It is unclear how large a threat this is to the end user. However the fact that XP is being loaded on netbooks suggests that Microsoft has a revenue stream that it should protect by writing a patch if it is serious.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It is unclear how large a threat this is to the end user. However the fact that XP is being loaded on netbooks suggests that Microsoft has a revenue stream that it should protect by writing a patch if it is serious.
Excellent point. I wonder if this could put MS into legal trouble. Does anybody know what software distribution laws say about distributing software with known security issues without the intention of filling them? Are they at least bound to notify the user? I mean people have burnt themselves on hot coffee and won lawsuits because they weren't notified. Surely this should be a more valid suit, as you don't even need to be a complete moron to get affected.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There are essentially no software liability regulations.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It is unclear how large a threat this is to the end user. However the fact that XP is being loaded on netbooks suggests that Microsoft has a revenue stream that it should protect by writing a patch if it is serious.
The Coca-Cola Corporation also had a steady worldwide revenue stream with its nearly 80 years old original Coke formula, and everything went smoothly when it upgraded it to the improved and more delicious New Coke- Oh wait.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It is unclear how large a threat this is to the end user. However the fact that XP is being loaded on netbooks suggests that Microsoft has a revenue stream that it should protect by writing a patch if it is serious.
The Coca-Cola Corporation also had a steady worldwide revenue stream with its nearly 80 years old original Coke formula, and everything went smoothly when it upgraded it to the improved and more delicious New Coke- Oh wait.
Well, this is just MS's own business practices backfiring. MS with XP, Vis
Re:Unclear (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Unclear (Score:4, Informative)
It does if you have 2 gig of memory. Bit cramped with 1 gig. Unusable with 512MB.
Windows 7 is more user-responsive than Vista, but its arse is just as fat.
In other words (Score:3, Insightful)
"not feasible"
yeah right, more like MS wants people to move onto Windows 7
Infeasible? (Score:5, Funny)
That's unpossible!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There's nothing wrong with inventing words.
"Colonize" didn't exist until the printer Benjamin Franklin started using it (and the British printers criticized him for turning a noun into a verb). These are called inkhorn words, because it's as if they magically sprung from the ink well. Some succeed while others like Bush's "misunderestimate" or Jefferson's "undamage" did not.
Re:Infeasible? (Score:5, Funny)
Verbulating is commonstuff. What's surprisamazing is that the hypermajority of communicenglishers can simpquickly graspulate the vocabulextension.
Upgrade or Else (Score:4, Interesting)
So, basically, upgrade or you'll be hacked?
Two questions:
1. Does 7's XP mode potentially have this issue, or is there a compatibility layer so xp doesn't talk directly to the network?
2. They seemed to be able to make massive security updates for code that was that old, and still patch a number of other issues. What about this REALLY makes it so hard to code?
In the end, while I understand not wanting to waste resources on way older products, I think it is a marketing move.
Re:Upgrade or Else (Score:4, Insightful)
The XP virtual machine is not accessible from outside as it talks via a NAT router. Any attack would need to come from the Windows 7 host machine, but if that was pwned, there are many other ways to attack the XP virtual machine.
making Vista/Win7 look good (Score:3)
How very serendipitous for Microsoft, people now have a reason to upgrade from XP.
I ran W2K on my desktop until a couple of years ago, i.e. until the patches stopped coming W2K did everything I needed.
Guess I'll have to consider Win7 now...
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No, it's "infeasible," Microsoft said so! Are you calling them a liar !?
Question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Question (Score:5, Funny)
You are forgetting that code ages overtime. I think it has something to do with the proteins and atoms. That is why they have to make new versions.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
However. XP x64 is actually just Server 2003 x64 rebadged.
15 years old (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:15 years old (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the key point. It doesn't matter when the code was written - if it was sold "today", it's current code. Current code (sold on the scale of an OS) should be fixed, or declared "broken" and not sold.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the key point. It doesn't matter when the code was written - if it was sold "today", it's current code. Current code (sold on the scale of an OS) should be fixed, or declared "broken" and not sold.
The article mentioned an effective workaround: turn on Windows Firewall.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And yet, it is still available through OEM channels. Maybe distributors are ordering it through a wormhole?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, had they decided not to patch software they haven't sold in 15 years that would be totally OK.
If a defect in a 1994 Taurus was found, Ford would recall the vehicles at great expense to them. Especially if it was a design defect in an engine that was basically used in an engine still produced for a 2003 Taurus.
There is NO excuse for any software company to NOT patch security holes in any product, no matter how old.
In other News: XP not affected by Vista/W7 bugs! (Score:3, Insightful)
The same two bugs were ranked "moderate" for Vista and Server 2008, while a third -- which doesn't affect the older operating systems -- was rated "critical."
Yes, it's easy to take the "We won't be backporting this fix" stance when the old OS isn't vulnerable in the first place.
Remote code execution is LOW impact? (Score:3, Insightful)
For some unfathomable reason, MS rates remote code execution as a LOW impact problem for XP.
And somehow, the TCP stack, perhaps the most modular and with the most well-defined interfaces, can't be replaced wholesale.
This makes no sense, unless they're trying to get people to spend $$$ on moving to "Windows 7",
or as the congnoscenti call it, "Vista SP2".
ooooohhh.....
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There's no remote code execution possible with this on XP, only DoS. You can make the system essentially freeze while the packeting is going on but that's it. Only Vista and Server 2008 have remote code execution exploits from this bug.
Also you can only exploit this if the machine has software accepting TCP connections. If you have an (application) firewall blocking all incoming connections with no exceptions (such as XP SP2+ has by default) there's no real problem.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
For some unfathomable reason, MS rates remote code execution as a LOW impact problem for XP.
But that's not what they're doing! There is no remote code execution vulnerability on Windows 2000, XP, or Server 2003. Only Vista and Server 2008 are susceptible to remote code execution. This is a Denial of Service vulnerability on NT 5.x systems, and you have to have the firewall disabled (and, indeed, no stateful hardware firewall at all) in order to be vulnerable.
The details are here:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms09-048.mspx [microsoft.com]
It's fine to criticise Microsoft for not releasing a
XP Still uspported on netbooks. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If you read the article you'll see systems with SP2 or SP3 are unaffected:
"By default, Windows XP SP2, Windows XP SP3 and Windows XP Professional x64 Edition SP2 do not have a listening service configured in the client firewall and are therefore not affected by this vulnerability,
In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
In other news... 10 year old Linux 2.4 kernel patched yesterday...
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Informative)
Link in case you think this is sarcasm: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.4.37.y.git;a=summary [kernel.org]
My job is to apply "The Formula" (Score:5, Funny)
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 miles per hour. The rear differential locks up. The car crushes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now: do we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field (A), multiply it by the probable rate of failure (B), then multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement (C). A times B times C equals X...
If X is less that the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 miles per hour. The rear differential locks up. The car crushes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now: do we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field (A), multiply it by the probable rate of failure (B), then multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement (C). A times B times C equals X...
If X is less that the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
The first rule of screwing the public is we don't talk about screwing the public.
The second rule of screwing the public is WE DON'T TALK ABOUT SCREWING THE PUBLIC!
"Infeasible": Translation.. (Score:5, Funny)
...we lost the source code, we kept it in Microsoft Source Safe and it ate it.
the true cost (Score:4, Insightful)
Xubuntu (or your favorite) for Netbooks (Score:3, Insightful)
There is really no reason for XP on a netbook any more. You aren't using it a high end gaming platform. You aren't running Adobe Creative stuff on it.
You are using it to run FireFox, edit documents, read, IM and send email.
Linux has all that covered and is even document-compatible with Windows.
I have a Eee 900A with a 32GB SSD in it running Xubuntu and I connect to a corporate Radius network, bluetooth tether to my phone, and even use the web version of outlook on it to get at calendars.
Flash even works.
The only thing I can't do that would be nice is play Netflix movies as the Moonlight package does not have DRM in it (and likely never will.)
2014 ???? (Score:5, Insightful)
Bad Car Analogy. You know it is coming ;-) (Score:5, Insightful)
Today GM announced that the GMC trucks have some fundamental flaw and they are prone to explode randomly. GM said it wont fix the issue because the design is very old, and fixing it is unfeasible. When asked if they will when they stopped shipping trucks with the fatal flaw, GM spokesman said, "we have not stopped building or shipping them yet. We need to compete with the low cost competitors in the net-truck market and so we continue to make and ship the trucks, but we wont fix the safety issue. The drivers may wrap themselves in bags filled with thermocol peanuts to get some measure of protection.
If not, why do we let Microsoft get away with it?
Re:Bad Car Analogy. You know it is coming ;-) (Score:4, Interesting)
Your analogy is flawed in three ways. First, MS doesn't make cars. Cars are useful. MS makes on OS which is a system component and pretty much useless by itself. Second MS is a monopoly, whereas GM is not. Third, the flaw in XP is unlikely to result in fatalities or even serious injury. Allow me to fix your analogy:
Today GM announced that the GMC trucks have some fundamental flaw in the lock mechanisms and they are prone to open and start the truck randomly. GM said it can't fix the issue because the component is supplied by EvilCorp and current law makes it illegal for them to change anything inside the locking mechanism device. Further GM can't buy locking mechanisms from anyone else because EvilCorp has a monopoly on selling them and has used criminal acts to drive all real competitors out of business. EvilCorp has already lost court cases to that effect, but after making campaign contributions to your elected officials decided not to punish them. EvilCorp says the design is very old, and fixing it is unfeasible. When asked if they will stop shipping trucks with the flaw, GM spokesman said, "we have not stopped building or shipping them yet. We don't have any real options here. We did try partnering with a company that repackages locking systems made for free by a nonprofit organization, but they aren't compatible with existing trailer hitches, AC systems, or tires and switching all of those is hard to do since all the component suppliers out there build them to work with EvilCorp products. Also EvilCorp gives away free gas tanks with every lock mechanism, but because they are really weird, gas has had to be reformulated so it has problems working in gas tanks from any normal company and nobody really sells standards compliant gas anymore. Car buyers are encouraged to remove the batteries from their trucks whenever they stop and park them in locked garages if they contain anything valuable."
Microsoft extends XP downgrade option to 2101 (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft Corporation has announced a limited one-off extension of availability of its Windows XP operating system to April 2101 after criticism from large customers and analysts. This is the fifty-sixth extension of XP's availability since 2008.
Through successive releases of Microsoft's flagship Windows operating system, demand for XP has remained an important factor for businesses relying on stable XP-specific software and installations, who have pushed back strongly against the software company's attempts to move them to later versions. Windows administration skills have become rare in recent years and consultants have demanded high fees. Reviving Windows administrators from cryogenic freezing has proven insufficient to fill the market gap, as almost all begged to work on COBOL instead.
"Windows XP is currently in the extremely very prolonged super-extended support phase and Microsoft encourages customers to migrate to Windows for Neurons 2097 as soon as feasible," said William Gates V, CEO and great-grandson of the company founder. "Spare change?"
Microsoft Corporation, along with Monsanto Corporation and the RIAA, exists as a protected species in the Seattle Memorial Glass Crater Bad Ideas And Warnings To The Future National Park in north-west Washington on the radioactive remains of what was once the planet Earth, under the protection of our Linux-based superintelligent robot artificial intelligence overlords. Company revenues for 2098 were over $15.
illustration: A background wallpaper for your insecurable XP desktop [today.com]. (Anyone got a pointer to the 1024x768 version?)
Best Buy's Training FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
Best Buy's recent "training" slide #9, where they say that "Linux is safer than Windows" is a myth, the "Real Facts" states (referring to Linux) 'There's no guarantee that when security vulnerabilities are discovered, an update will be created. Users are on their own.'
Here's proof that that statement is really talking about Windows...
31 days. (Score:3, Interesting)
I say give 'em a month, tops, and then there will be a patch (or news of a coming patch) for Windows XP.
Now would be a terrible time for Microsoft to alienate all those big corps that have XP and force them into another OS, if they want to keep their customers.
It'd be great for everyone else, as customers may start looking into things they would never have considered otherwise, such as various open source operating systems, and the necessary apps it would take to keep them going in their workflow, post-transition.
The way it looks is, some people (usually companies) will view this as a threat from Microsoft that reads: "Upgrade if you want protection."
Some of them in this group will obediently upgrade to Fista or 7.
Some of them will reluctantly upgrade to Vista or 7.
Some of them will stay with XP and find other ways to secure themselves.
Some of them will [cross their fingers and hope|pray] that Microsoft changes their mind and offers a patch.
Some of them will be offended and migrate to another OS outside of Big Red Robotland.
And of course, some of them will feel that litigation solves everything, and want to take MS to court for "refusing to patch an OS that is in such widespread use" (or) "intentionally posing a security risk".
Refusing a patch like this, in my humble opinion, isn't something you want to do until a few months after your new OS lands, at the bare minimum. That way, you've already got people migrating.
XP's patching lifecycle isn't up yet, from what I can see here, though: XP SP2 should be good until July of 2010 [microsoft.com], and SP3 should be good a bit longer than that, so I'm surprised no-one has really called 'em out on that.
Coming to a law court near you (Score:3, Interesting)
2. Run all updates.
3. Browse web, get hacked by this exploit. Lose money through "identity theft" / bank fraud.
4. Turn up in court with the receipt for the netbook & windows license stating when purchased, and the date and time Microsoft refused to patch the hole which caused your loss.
5. State that Microsoft is profiting from a product which is unsuitable for purpose, and it knows is unsuitable.
6.
7. Read Microsoft fine print and realise that you have to now give Microsoft your first born child for ever doubting that their asses are covered.
Yeah, consumer loses out on this one.
They could, they just dont want to... (Score:5, Insightful)
Please..all underlying architecture has not changed from xp to vista, even though they want you to believe this...and for them to correct the wrapper on xp, would be trivial, however, they are testing the waters about phasing out xp, and want to see what the backlash will be like, seeing as no one wants vista garbage, and maybe even no windows7!
I prefer, being given the opportunity of just paying a yearly fee to keep getting updates on a system that runs properly compared to their new bloated versions of vista etc... too bad no one can pick it up like a linux distro and start their own version of windows...
In other words... (Score:4, Insightful)
in other words:
it's the same feigned argument as when they refused to port DX10 to XP to boost Vista sales - uh - I mean it was because it's technically impossible... it's just that hackers ported it to XP later....
The solution is rather obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
TCP/IP, selling knowingly defective products (Score:5, Insightful)
Since the government has been ineffective in enforcing these laws, falling for MS legal theories, only insistent market rejection will [partially] protect a consumer from the borg. No doubt we will be seeing more FUD IP attacks, like SCO, traceable to MSFT. Good luck to all. Fsck MSFT.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I agre (Score:4, Insightful)
Because Apple stopped selling versions older than 10.5 nearly two years ago and the upgrade to 10.6 is thirty dollars retail. Microsoft is still selling XP licenses.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:XP is teh dead (Score:4, Informative)
Re:XP is teh dead (Score:4, Insightful)
The XP firewall is practically fucking useless to begin with. That still doesn't give them the right to jump out of a contractual support obligation 5 years in advance.