Microsoft Readies Ad-Supported Office Starter 2010 235
Martin writes with this excerpt from Ars Technica: "Microsoft Office Starter 2010 will be not available for purchase; it will only come pre-loaded on new PCs. It includes basic functionality so users can view, edit, and create documents via Office Word Starter 2010 and Office Excel Starter 2010. Not only are these programs ad-supported, but Microsoft claims they are 'designed for casual Office users,' who apparently will be perfectly fine with reduced-functionality and ad-supported software."
*readies his version of IDA* (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow wasn't the big shit about Microsoft Office over Star/Open Office the whole idea that you won't be able to use the poweruser features and all the scripting. So why should the casual user deal with ads in something that will be feature crippled and basically "consumer" branded (read CRAP) when they can fire up a free non-ad infested version of Open Office. All the basic shit is there and it is basically the same, users can export the files to doc and even set it to default to saving as a Microsoft Word doc. Before you reply about difference remember they said casual use, not corporate office use. If it wasn't for being the incumbent Operating System, Microsoft would have no standing with this. I wonder if they can even be construed as them manipulating their monopoly to enhance their Office productivity market as a matter of curiosity. Whether or not it does, this looks like a waste of time. I guess it is better than Microsoft Works.
Just use Open Office (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm, sounds exactly like Open Office, just without the ads.... I'll stick with OO. I'm a "casual" office user and haven't touched MS Office in five years.
Re:*readies his version of IDA* (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you tried Office 10?
Unless you're desperate to stick with Microsoft products or are part of a large organisation which can use the collaboration features, there's better options out there. It's a huge, slow, clumsy tool, not something that welcomes casual use.
I'd suggest you get hold of the tech preview and see for yourself.
Re:It's ad supported? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's ad supported? (Score:3, Insightful)
Who says they're ignoring it?
But even if they were - perhaps there's some validation for that. After all, as per.. http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1398133&cid=29689373 [slashdot.org] ..it's entirely more likely that people who grow tired of the ads would just download a patch to remove the ad functionality (not counting the people who would actually -buy- Office, of course).
Re:*readies his version of IDA* (Score:1, Insightful)
What, a Beta product that's slow, clumsy and not feature complete!? Inconceivable. Let's wait for the final build before you start omgwtftrashing MS.
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:4, Insightful)
>So why should the casual user deal with ads in something that will be feature crippled and basically "consumer" branded (read CRAP)
Unfortunately, they will use it because it is there, installed on their machine.
Still, at least this new version of office really will stink, and will make Open Office look even better.
if I wanted... (Score:4, Insightful)
...a slightly more annoying Office with slightly less functionality for free I'd use Open Office.
Oh wait, I do!
Doesn't sound to bad to me... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:*readies his version of IDA* (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:OMG... deja moo... with ads... (Score:3, Insightful)
Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
Peolpe will use it because it's there. And now because office is "free" with their new computer they will have no reason to pirate it and every reason to use it, thus deepening the MS monopoly on the desktop.
I smell some new antitrust action.
GRRRRRR... (Score:2, Insightful)
that's what I get for posting to slashdot while I'm on the phone.
To finish my thought -the reason why is very simple.
Piss fucking simple:
COMPATIBILITY
Re:Alternatives (Score:4, Insightful)
Most users actually use what is pre-installed, a clear attempt for MS Office to gain new grounds. Why do you think the IE6 is so widespread still ? It is the default bundled browser on Windows XP. This is not a good news for Open Office or Google.
Go ahead, make my day (Score:3, Insightful)
By experimenting with starter edition, non-technical users will conclude that MS Word is unstable (software with ads usually hangs while trying to load them), lacks essential features and of course looks junky. We can then take pity on them and offer to install "new Windows [ubuntu.com] that comes with no ads and fully functional software".
You would think Microsoft would learn its lesson after shipping with a media player that doesn't play DVDs and can't rip/burn your own CDs to standard MP3s. Apple, take cue for a new "I am a Mac" ad featuring a comparison to iWork.
Can you uninstall it? (Score:3, Insightful)
The question will be whether you can uninstall it? I've got better things to do with my disk space and network bandwidth than support/tolerate adware. Do I have to pay for the Ads to be downloaded if my Internet access is over a 3G network???.
For that matter is it possible in Windows 7+ to uninstall IE (or the anti-virus/Windows update/big-brother/similar software)?
Can one get back to the state where it is more like a Windows 2000 system (I still have my Win2K install disks...) or even Windows 98 or 95 [1]?
Sigh, when will someone sue computer manufacturers (HP, Dell [2], Apple, etc.) so they will all provide hardware without software and end the paternalistic (monopolistic) HW+SW bundling practices?
1. Though in theory one really wouldn't want to run 95 or 98 because their unprotected nature is presumably what started the madness...
2. Though I recently noticed Dell may be returning to providing a Linux option...
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:4, Insightful)
So why should the casual user deal with ads in something that will be feature crippled and basically "consumer" branded (read CRAP) when they can fire up a free non-ad infested version of Open Office.
Because everyone is already familiar with Word and Excel, and it's more painful to switch to Open Office than to see some ads. Speaking from experience, switching to Open Office is quite annoying if you're used to Word and Excel. (Although it is more annoying to switch to Office 2007 from Office 2003, with that stupid ribbon interface).
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:4, Insightful)
In my experience most people barely notice the difference.
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:4, Insightful)
Heh, I think you argued yourself into redundancy when you noticed how bad the ribbon effect was! ;)
My in-laws didn't want to fork out the hundreds of for the full blown version of Office. Had something like this existed then, they may have used it out-of-the-box. As it was, at the time I gave them the choice - use an illicit copy of Office (which they weren't comfortable with) or use a FREE and legal Office replacement (which they weren't even aware was available).
The opted for the free and legal route and now use NeoOffice quite comfortably. The 'pain' of 'switching' was less than the pain of the pricetag for Office, although to be honest there was no real switch involved with it being a fresh install, and even if there was I think the average user is having to learn to 'switch' every time a new version of MSOffice is released because MS in their wisdom keep changing the interface dramatically. So simply sidestepping to a competitor version with at least the level of functionality the vast majority of users need is actually quite easy.
I think this 'free' pre-bundled Office Lite may have quite an impact on the uptake of OOo though. If only because there'll be fewer non-tech users buying a PC without Office pre-installed. At that point they usually turn to their 'techie friend' for help, whereupon their friend may suggest OOo like I did. People like free - if it's pre-installed it's free, yet OOo is also free. People like easy too - pre-installed means no extra work, installing OOo means 5 minutes of work which isn't QUITE as a easy... shame, but OOo loses on those odds I fear.
Re:*readies his version of IDA* (Score:1, Insightful)
Your approach is little more than theft - your immediate reaction is to see how you can take what is offered, but not at the offered price. So I ask you again, why not use something else?
seems like an obvious move (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems like a pretty obvious move - with the advent of so many free non-MS alternatives I think Microsoft has a legitimate fear that they will become just one of the options in the "office suite" space, rather than the de facto standard. Getting their "free" offering onto as many desktops as possible MIGHT protect that status.
The open source alternatives however are hard to "compete" against, since they are generally going to continue to live even with a vanishingly small "market share" - as long as enough technical types are willing to support them.
I think in the long term, MS and others are not going to be able to justify to the consumer the high prices for their offerings that they have been able to up to now, and that low cost (perhaps free/ad supported) is the only way they are going to be able to maintain any level of profitability and stay in business.
Re:*readies his version of IDA* (Score:5, Insightful)
Alas, I doubt they'll let you minimise the advertisement pane.
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:5, Insightful)
In my experience most people have never even heard about Open Office and will never even bother looking for an alternative to MS Office.
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:1, Insightful)
Here comes the anecdote waving contest, I am now satisfied.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:*readies his version of IDA* (Score:3, Insightful)
Neither is a revolutionary piece of software that re-sets the benchmark for everything to come and blasts all competition into dust.
I noticed you were careful not to include two of the words the person you were replying to used: From MS.
I think your decision was very well made.
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:3, Insightful)
The 'pain' of 'switching' was less than the pain of the pricetag for Office
In my experience, the "pain" of switching from MS Office to a non-MS office suite tends to be a bit less than the pain pain of upgrading from one version of MS Office to another anyway - OOo is certainly less "different" than some versions of MS Office.
Unfortunately, it does seem that people are more accepting of the MS-inspired pain though - maybe that has something to do with the feeling that upgrading MS Office is something that has to be done so the pain must be endured, whereas switching to an alternative is a choice, so there is an easy way to avoid that pain (by not switching). Most people take a very short-term view and avoid the immediate hassle, even if it might mean more hassle in the future.
I think this 'free' pre-bundled Office Lite may have quite an impact on the uptake of OOo though. If only because there'll be fewer non-tech users buying a PC without Office pre-installed. At that point they usually turn to their 'techie friend' for help, whereupon their friend may suggest OOo like I did.
I'm not convinced - PCs have traditionally come with *some* crappy office suite installed (e.g. MS Works). I'm not sure this is going to change anything.
People like free - if it's pre-installed it's free, yet OOo is also free. People like easy too - pre-installed means no extra work, installing OOo means 5 minutes of work which isn't QUITE as a easy... shame, but OOo loses on those odds I fear.
I suppose a lot will depend on what the PC manufacturers decide to bundle with the machines. Sadly, I suspect they will bundle the MS product, just because "MS Office" is a brand that people recognise (even if it happens to have "(crap edition)" after it). If OEMs were going to start bundling OOo, I suspect they might've done it before now - I can't think of an especially good reason for them to have been bundling MS Works instead of OOo for years, other than for the ability to use the MS brand and _maybe_ because using OOo might undercut some of their MS Office sales.
So... (Score:1, Insightful)
Basically, this is adware? I bet anyone any amount of money that anti-malware software doesn't classify this as adware.
Can't people just use OpenOffice already?
Re:*readies his version of IDA* (Score:5, Insightful)
Your approach is little more than theft ...
Yes, in the same way that it's 'little more than theft' if you leave the room to take a whizz while watching an ad-supported TV program. i.e. nothing like theft at all.
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:3, Insightful)
I've often wondered if MS gives PC manufacturers some kind of kickback for bundling thier sucky office products (works/office trial/this new crippled office product) in the hope that it will net them sales for the full version.
Another reason I can think of is that some manfuacturers (notablly dell) offer office as a build time option. Therefore it is probablly in thier interests not to open peoples eyes to the existance of openoffice.
Re:Clippy pushes Viagra (Score:4, Insightful)
by having OEMs pre-load it in exchange for discounts off the OEM price of windows
Basically, they'll abuse their monopoly position and it will take several years for the US DOJ and EU to bring them to heel... other markets are stuffed because they don't have "effective" anti-monopoly commissions to protect customers and OEMS from abusive multi-nationals (I say "effective" because the US market isn't working properly either...)
Re:Can you uninstall it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Aside from taking this opportunity to mention that anybody seriously considering removing OEM crapware manually would be FAR better off reformatting (it's faster, there's no risk of something left behind, and shouldn't cost anything - the media is essentially free, all that matters is the license key conveniently printed on a sticker) I'm sure that this will be removable. Office (in all its flavors) has always been pretty easy to uninstall, and there's no particular reason they'd do differently here. It's not like the copies of Works, or trial versions of Office, that currently come from OEMs can't be removed.
There's been a TON of info on the web about this, which makes it surprising that you would ask, but yes, you can remove IE from Win7. It doesn't remove the Trident engine (which many 1st- or 3rd-party software relies on, much like Webkit on OS X) but the browser application is optional.
As for the rest... it doesn't come with any AntiVirus per se, although it does have Windows Defender. This can be disabled, but I'm not sure whether it's easily removable. Disabling it and removing the install location might work, though. Removing Windows Update from a Internet-connected system would be absolutely retarded - you can manually patch but you'd probably waste more space downloading all the patches rather then just the incremental stuff - but I suppose the same approach as Defender might work. No way that I know of to remove WGA (assuming that's what you meant by "big-brother") short of seriously extensive hackery.
I really doubt you want it back to looking like Windows 2000 (and I know I don't miss the startup time on that thing) but I suppose by going though and removing every feature you can find (most can be deactivated through some registry edit or similar) less than 9 years old, you could get close. Nothing you can do will turn a NT-based system into a 9x-based one, though - they're completely different operating systems that happen to share an ABI and nearly-identical UI.
While not available on every model, virtually every major OEM offers either a pre-installed Linux or FreeDOS (upon which you might be able to run Windows 3.1 - do you still have disks for that?) on some of their computers. You could also build your own (cheap and pretty easy with a desktop, tricky but possible with a laptop), buy a used model without a Windows license, or buy new, refuse the Windows EULA, and get a refund for the cost of the OEM license (which isn't a ton, but it counts in principle).
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:3, Insightful)
In my experience, we used StarOffice across an entire school district for years and were plagued with compatibility problems with other schools. Also, Star/OOo lacks some very useful interface features compared even to Office 2000. We still have Star installed on our images to support old documents, but Office 2007 has greatly reduced our incoming support requests. It actually works *better*, as much as I hate to admit it.
I'm the resident FOSS advocate at the schools. I'm the one who has pushed Linux acceptance through on a limited basis and kept the schools from paying out thousands for various applications when there were alternatives. Yet I must concede that OOo and Star simply are not "there" when compared with Office.
Excel for Casual Users? (Score:4, Insightful)
How exactly does a spreadsheet fit into the "casual user" profile?
"Oh, I was just screwing around one day, modeling possible amortization breakdowns on various theoretical mortgages. You know, just to kill time before I finished up the index and the table of references in my letter to grandma..."
Another pro-linux slant.....yawn (Score:3, Insightful)
"......who apparently will be perfectly fine with reduced-functionality and ad-supported software."
Apparently. Right. No-one *at all* has whinged about how many features they don't actually need in Word/ Excel, and yet once that's being addressed, it's now a problem. Like your average buyer will complain about getting basic Word and Excel over Works (a fully featured Works, which I'm sure eveyrone would prefer)..
And can we also cut the crap with Open Office? It's been bandied about as Vastly Superior for *years* now....and I've yet to work at a company that's seriously using it. Big it up once >20% of word processing users agree with you (which means OO still has a loooong way to go).
Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !! (Score:3, Insightful)
In my experience, we used StarOffice across an entire school district for years and were plagued with compatibility problems with other schools. Also, Star/OOo lacks some very useful interface features compared even to Office 2000. [...] OOo and Star simply are not "there" when compared with Office.
It sounds like you're saying that OOo/StarOffice compatibility with MS Office is not "there", not the complete package per se.
This might sound pedantic, but I think it's an important distinction.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Casual Users Need Databases too (Score:3, Insightful)
And that is exactly what casual users use Excel for.