Two Sunken Japanese Submarines Found Off Hawaii 239
Posted
by
kdawson
from the toro-toro-and-we-don't-mean-lawnmowers dept.
from the toro-toro-and-we-don't-mean-lawnmowers dept.
Ponca City, We love you writes "The NY Times reports that two World War II Japanese submarines, including one meant to carry aircraft for attacks on American cities, have been found in deep water off Hawaii where they were sunk in 1946. Specifically designed for a stealth attack on the US East Coast — perhaps targeting Washington, DC and New York City — the 'samurai subs' were fast, far-ranging, and some carried folding-wing aircraft. Five Japanese submarines were captured by American forces at the end of the war and taken to Pearl Harbor for study, then towed to sea and torpedoed, probably to avoid having to share any of their technology with the Russian military. One of the Japanese craft, the I-201, was covered with a rubberized coating on the hull, an innovation intended to make it less apparent to sonar or radar; it was capable of speeds of about 20 knots while submerged, making it among the fastest diesel submarines ever made. The other, the I-14, much larger and slower, was designed to carry two small planes, Aichi M6A Seirans that could be brought onto the deck and launched by a catapult. The submarines were meant to threaten the United States directly, but none of the attacks occurred because the subs were developed too late in the war, and American intelligence was too good. 'It's very moving to see objects like this underwater,' says Hans Van Tilburg of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, 'because it's a very peaceful environment, but these subs were designed for aggression.'"
Tour a sub. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wha? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wha? (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, it's a teaser. It always amazes me at how advanced the Germans and Japanese were in some things, and just how arrogant and stupid the Americans were. (Of course the same could be said for all participants, but as victors, the Americans wrote the history after the war.)
American Generals refused to believe the early reports of the speed and agility of the Zero. British Generals refused to fund the development of the jet engine until the Germans fielded theirs.
Now I learn that the Japanese were playing with submarine stealth technology.
Lots of good stuff for geeks; just gotta do your homework and not wait to be spoonfed.
Re:Tour a sub. (Score:5, Insightful)
And, looking at my gut, I'm guessing the soft-serve experience did something to me as well.
Re:Wha? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it's a teaser. It always amazes me at how advanced the Germans and Japanese were in some things, and just how arrogant and stupid the Americans were. (Of course the same could be said for all participants, but as victors, the Americans wrote the history after the war.)
American Generals refused to believe the early reports of the speed and agility of the Zero. British Generals refused to fund the development of the jet engine until the Germans fielded theirs.
Now I learn that the Japanese were playing with submarine stealth technology.
Lots of good stuff for geeks; just gotta do your homework and not wait to be spoonfed.
Yet the countries with the advanced high-tech military hardware still fell to the swarming hordes that out-produced them materially. A lesson the US probably should keep in mind going into the 21st century.
Re:Wha? (Score:3, Insightful)
The axis forces of WWII made many arrogant mistakes, like not believing in convoys (Japanese), not believing allies had broken their codes (Japanese and German), not believing that their own governments could come up with anything like a "death camp," etc. Arrogance ran up and down the command structure on both sides of that particular war.
And even though it's more exciting to talk about secret Japanese and German technology, don't forget that the misuse of secret technology was a specialty of all parties involved in the war; Japan was making better suicide planes, Germany was mastering the infrastructure of genocide, and so on.
USS Silversides (SS-236) (Score:4, Insightful)
USS Silversides (SS-236) [wikipedia.org] Active in WWII from April of 1941 to July 1945, and saw quite a bit of action.
Can be seen at the Great Lakes Naval Memorial & Museum [discountasp.net].
In Muskegon, MI. They have several "overnight" programs for Cub Scouts and Indian Guides and such so you can spend the night sleeping in the bunks, as well as eat in the galley, watch Das Boot, etc. Very very very cool for kids and adults both.
Re:price of failure (Score:3, Insightful)
So basically your saying that you wish people were killed to prevent the killing of other people. I suppose the irony is lost on you.
Re:Wha? (Score:3, Insightful)
...which completely explains why we had to drop two of them before they surrendered. Surely they were in no hurry to lose another major city.
The bombs were dropped because it was completely clear to all that the japanese of that time were going to dig in as deep as possible and were all willing to fight to the death. If you run the math, the number killed by those two bombs is far less than the casualties would have been on just the Allies side had we had to actually invade Japan. Imagine the scale of damage to Japan (the country and the populace) if the rest of the world had been forced to invade to put an end to it?
At first glance it may seem like an absurd conclusion, but really, those bombs did Japan a favor. In the long run they saved a lot more Japanese lives than they took. The emperor had the entire populace wound up to fight to the death and that's about the only thing that was going to change his mind.
Although surely actually nuking someone beats sabor rattling any day, but that was a positive side-effect, not the deciding factor, by a long shot.