Microsoft Steals Code From Microblogging Startup 315
Readers davidlougheed and TSHTF both let us know that microblogging service Plurk reported today that Microsoft China not only copied look and feel from its interface, but also copied raw code from Plurk's service, when it released its own microblogging service called MSN Juku (or Mclub). In instances of the code released on the Plurk blog, the layout, code structure, and variable names were very similar or in some cases 100% identical. The story has been covered in multiple media sources. The software theft is hypocritical, given Microsoft's past threats against Chinese software piracy."
As someone who works with outsourced Chinese labor (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sure this is simply a case of the engineers in China being told "make us this product", and when waiting until they deliver a finished product without questioning it properly. Their American MSFT overlords probably took no time to apply the same oversight that they would give to their domestic employees.
How do I know this? Because it's happened with my company before too.
And why does it happen? Language barrier and time zone difference.
The reports are too soft (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Of course being in China, (Score:5, Informative)
This once I choose to post anonymously to protect myself and my Chinese visa.
Re:Why is anyone surprised? (Score:2, Informative)
You mean like http://msversus.org/ [msversus.org] ?
Re:I wonder (Score:5, Informative)
Well, Microsoft has answered [techcrunch.com] some to it:
Earlier today, questions arose over a feature developed by a third-party vendor for our MSN China joint venture. We are working with our MSN China joint venture to investigate the situation.
Unfortunately, when these questions first arose, it was the middle of the night in China. Now that the day has begun in China, our teams are working hard to track down the information.
Here’s what we know at this point. Our MSN China joint venture contracted with an independent vendor to create a feature called MSN Juku that allowed MSN users to find friends via microblogging and online games. This MSN Juku feature was made available to MSN China users in November and is still in beta.
Because questions have been raised about the code base comprising the service, MSN China will be suspending access to the Juku beta feature temporarily while we investigate the matter fully.
We will provide additional information as we learn more.
Re:Why is anyone surprised? (Score:2, Informative)
Who modded the parent as insightful? (Score:2, Informative)
the Chinese portion of anything is going to deny it's theft and call the original coders liars. The Chinese are great about this, the government mindset is embedded in the younger citizens - such as "We do not filter our Internet access, we have a few routing issues."
Yeah, right.
Have you even visited China, or are you just talking out of your ass? Let me guess, you think that everything is cheap and ripped off here too, right? As someone who moved to China from the U.S., and who works with young Chinese people every day, let me clue you into something: you hear a lot of nonsense and propaganda about China, and there are a lot of assumptions that are wrong. Fortunately for people like you, not enough Chinese people can speak English fluently to slap stuff like this down on Slashdot. That's why there's an enormous gap in English sources about all things related to China, and a couple popular misconceptions get repeated ad nauseum because nobody bothers to read about China or come here. So you and the rest know...
* Everyone in China knows that certain sites are blocked
* Most blocked sites are English anyways
* People don't really care because their Chinese stuff works fine
As for the whole political situation, most educated people here see the problems with American democracy and economics and realize it's not the right way for them. They do complain about many problems with the government, and most people are actually resentful toward the rich (unlike in the U.S. where everyone calls them "successful" and wants to kiss their asses). The newspapers will happily report on these topics, and people can definitely voice their opinions about a number of issues. If you think that's not enough, try voicing certain views critical of capitalism or business in American papers and see how far you get.
As for topics like Tibet, most Chinese only know the other half of the story that you didn't hear. That is, Tibet was basically a serfdom where the temples and a few wealthy individuals owned all the land, and people were bound to them. They had to pay extremely high taxes, had no education, and they had their eyes gouged out or their hands chopped off if they committed crimes (by Buddhist monks even), which you can easily find photos of. They couldn't even marry without permission from the land owner, and they generally lived in abject poverty (and still do). Tibet probably deserves independence, but most Americans only think that Tibet was a magical fairy land where everyone was happy until the big bad Chinese came. In reality, most peoples' lives there suck now, but they sucked before too. Just like the Chinese have something to lose if Tibet became independent, the monks lost a lot of privilege too, so make what you will of that.
So you see, you are just hearing the other side of the propaganda. You are being duped by political forces that are often more pervasive than the Chinese government could ever hope to be, because Americans don't even know that they are hearing bullshit. Market forces just control the whole thing, and keep the true puppet masters of the country safe. They don't need to do anything forceful because the system works to quietly keep people quiet about certain things. If we could occupy their markets tomorrow and profit from them, you can bet that the American media would magically fall in love with China in a heartbeat.
Re:Of course being in China, (Score:3, Informative)
Diego Garcia's depopulation was done by the UK, not the US. The US wanted an island, and liked this one, they asked the UK to purchase it, and find some way to to make the island unpopulated. There are many ways to do so, some more legitimate than others. Fur example, it may have been possible to offer other land, money and other amenities to the natives in exchange for the island, or other similar things. Instead the UK decided to do such terrible things as attempt to starve the people off the Island, and forcibly prevent inhabitants who left from returning.
You can't blame the US for how the UK decided to handle that.
Re:Who modded the parent as insightful? (Score:0, Informative)
Actually, you're doing a bit of talking out of the ass yourself. I am in China now, and the picture you paint is not accurate, but your foolish peers will mod you up because you appear insightful and you get extra points for brown-nosing.
Not everyone knows the Internet is filtered/fire-walled/blocked. It largely comes down to how computer savy the person in. Young or old doesn't seem to matter, it's how well educated or traveled the person it. Those who do know that some sites are blocked are bothered with it, others are not. Some utilize proxies and others don't. Some Chinese men are content to visit websites and download zipped pictures of Chinese bikini models, others try to get around the great firewall for something more satisfying.
Ignorant fucks like you enjoy paining everyone with the same brush, but you can't do that to people, and you certainly can't do it in China.
Re:Of course being in China, (Score:3, Informative)
NOt necessarily every country: in Finland, people and companies have a pretty solid track record of taking responsibility of their actions. It's part of the culture. The chinese have, on the other hand, a solid track record of lies and deceptions. Just look at the various falsities/fakeries during the Beijing Olympic games.
Re:It's a difficult problem for MS (Score:3, Informative)
It's not someONE. A company of the size of Microsoft doesn't have the same person doing the UI design and the coding. Yet here they very clearly stole both the UI design AND the code. It's very clearly Microsoft China that is responsible. They don't get to lay the blame on some rogue coder.
You assume that anything MS sells or provides is written by MS. You're wrong [techcrunch.com]:
Earlier today, questions arose over a feature developed by a third-party vendor for our MSN China joint venture. We are working with our MSN China joint venture to investigate the situation.
Unfortunately, when these questions first arose, it was the middle of the night in China. Now that the day has begun in China, our teams are working hard to track down the information.
Here’s what we know at this point. Our MSN China joint venture contracted with an independent vendor to create a feature called MSN Juku that allowed MSN users to find friends via microblogging and online games. This MSN Juku feature was made available to MSN China users in November and is still in beta.
Because questions have been raised about the code base comprising the service, MSN China will be suspending access to the Juku beta feature temporarily while we investigate the matter fully.
We will provide additional information as we learn more.
Re:Not the first time. (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know why you want to pretend that MS isn't a criminal organization, but come on, dude.. It's not hard to find this stuff.
The article you've linked to is very tangentially related to this case. It is about the court dismissing a defamation case brought by Tim Paterson (who wrote QDOS by himself, and later sold it to MS; he was working for Seattle Computer Products, and not for MS) against Harold Evans, who claimed in his book that CP/M was a "rip-off" of CP/M.
The article mentions specific claims by Evans:
"Evans also wrote that Paterson's DOS operating system appropriated the "look and feel" of CP/M, copied its user interface, and "ripped-off" CP/M."
I think that no-one in a sane mind would argue that QDOS didn't copy its interface, and many basic concepts, from CP/M. However, this is copying ideas, not code. At the same time, this article [theregister.co.uk] in The Register about the same thing also specifically lists the reasons that judge cited when ruling on the case:
"Judge Zilly said Paterson falsely claimed Evans credited Kildall as the "inventor" of DOS, weakening his case. At the same time, the Judge found, Evans had faithfully recorded Paterson's denial of Kildall's view that QDOS "ripped off" CP/M."
"The Judge also agreed that Paterson copied CP/M's API, including the first 36 functions and the parameter passing mechanism, although Paterson renamed several of these. Kildall's "Read Sequential" function became "Sequential Read", for example, while "Read Random" became "Random Read"."
"Finally, Judge Zilly concluded that Evans acted without malice, and castigated the plaintiffs for introducing irrelevancies into court, including the claim that Kildall was an alcoholic."
Again, no mention of copying the implementation, just API. If you object to that kind of thing, then, oh man, you must hate Linux with a passion.