Not Enough Women In Computing, Or Too Many Men? 686
itwbennett writes "Do geeks really 'drive girls out of computer science,' as the headline of a LiveScience article contends? Blogger Cameron Laird doesn't think so. In fact, 'I don't think "gender issues in computing" is important enough to merit the attention it gets,' says Laird in a recent post. And maybe the problem isn't that there are too few women in computing, but that there are too many men. 'I'm waiting to read the headline: "Women too smart for careers with computers,"' says Laird, 'where another researcher concludes that only "boys" are stupid enough to go into a field that's globally-fungible, where entry-level salaries are declining, and it's common to think that staying up all night for a company-paid pizza is a good deal.'"
Re:I am seeing it. (Score:5, Informative)
I agree with you for IT workers. On the other hand, if you've been in IT for a while and have any management ability or the inclination to do consulting, the ability to make a good living still exists. I can't speak for the life of a corporate IT drone, but life in the small / medium business sector is thriving. There are a lot of businesses out there that appreciate the necessity of having a stable IT foundation. With the economic downturn there is more competition for the contracts, but if you're skilled and have a history of success behind you, the work is available. My last employer replaced me with two people when I left in 2006 and he hasn't had to lay any of them off despite the "Greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression".
The greatest change I've seen is the shift to outsourcing and consulting. The ability to have a successful, long term IT career at a single employer is probably further away than it has ever been. But if a person is willing to do contract work, there is work aplenty. Just check dice.com if you don't believe me. I have my resume posted and even though I'm working full time, I still get a couple of calls a month from recruiters who are looking to fill positions.
Re:Coming Right Up (Score:3, Informative)
Aha! My tilde cleverly negated your whoosh.
Re:Coming Right Up (Score:2, Informative)
No, he used the "What I just said was retarded mark" ("~"), indicating he was being sarcastic.
Re:My say on this (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Oh please... (Score:3, Informative)
... if I did want to "look elsewhere" for gender-based discrimination, what better place to look than in a field highly dominated by one sex?
Indeed. It never stops bothering me that strippers, nurses, nannies, and cosmetologists are almost invariably female. And if it wasn't for gay men, our numbers in certain industries would even worse.
Re:The blue collar job of the digital age (Score:3, Informative)
Shoveling bits does suck. The software world can however still be very profitable, enjoyable, and rewarding if you are 1) a real innovator and entrepreneur with a sense of your market (and thus get rewarded for turning great ideas into great products or great companies), 2) a brilliant computer scientist (and thus get rewarded for solving the problems that are too hard for other engineers or developers to solve), or 3) first and foremost a domain specialist (and only secondarily a software developer/engineer/etc.), in which case you are likely to get rewarded for the fact that you can bring your domain knowledge to play, and you just happen to use technology as a tool to solve the domain problems that you are really getting paid to solve.
Or else you can get on the IT or engineering management track and perhaps make a decent salary but probably be bored as hell with your life.
All the enjoyable experiences I've had in tech-related industries basically fit into one of the above categories. The people who hated their jobs that I have seen in the industry were usually basically what you said - bit shovelers - guys gluing together other people's products at non-tech companies, grunt-line implementers inside tech companies, and so on. Basically, not the kind of jobs I'd encourage my kids to aspire to.
So if you really love technology, you need to figure out if you are temperamentally and intellectually suited for categories 1 or 2 above. If not, then I suggest you consider developing some deep domain knowledge and expertise in an area you love and that has a significant market out there.
you're mixing up the articles (Score:3, Informative)
A woman named Jeanna Bryner wrote the original article, entitled "Geeks Drive Girls Out of Computer Science" (1st link), which is arguing the fairly standard point, that women are turned away from CS due to a male-dominated geek culture. The reply, from a male blogger named Cameron Laird (2nd link), argues the opposite, that women are too smart to go into computing.
Just be warned (Score:3, Informative)
Teaching is hard work, low pay, and often very thankless. My mom was a teacher for about 25 years and I really wouldn't wish that on anyone. While it is the sort of thing that certain people thrive in, particularly those that are very caring and have a "Save the world" mentality, I think most skilled people would be better off doing something else. The pay is just not in line with other jobs requiring a master's level of education. Now that might be ok if it were easy work, but it isn't. Teachers have tons of homework to deal with, it is very much a job that is not 9-5. Then there's all the problems. You WILL have parents shout at you, try to get your fired, you'll have kids that come from broken homes, you'll have to be a babysitter as well as a teacher.
So, if you are the kind of person who thrives on helping others, the kind of person who saving just one person can be a worthwhile reward for a lot of work, then look at it. However if you think that it is going to be less work than IT you are kidding yourself. I work so much less than mom did it isn't even funny.
Just make sure you know what you are getting in to.
Women don't generally work stressful jobs... (Score:1, Informative)
I dunno about "IT" (Score:3, Informative)
But I write software, and I stay employed all the time, despite my unwillingness to work over 40 hours per week, and despite my insistence on a healthy six figure salary. I have done this for 16 years.
Re:Yeah right (Score:1, Informative)
I've worked 40 hours per week flat for the last two years (except for vacations here and there), full health benefits, etc. Only 80k per year so I'm not rolling it in or anything... but I'm still in my 20s and I don't live in California so it's a comfortable salary and life. I know lots of other people who have jobs with similar conditions at different companies around here, too. Not sure what people like you on slashdot are complaining about. Maybe there is still a glut of people looking for 100k per year jobs doing web design?
Re:Another one of these?? (Score:4, Informative)
Umm.. yeah, I'm a male in IT and have been for 14 years and I've been ignored, talked over, dismissed, and generally excluded too. Geeks do that. The difference between you and me is that you play games and I say "whatever dickweed" and get on with my job.
Re:Hypocritical (Score:3, Informative)
There are lots of programs to encourage men to go into nursing. In fact, if you recall that U of Michigan affirmative action supreme court case a few years back, the same bonuses that applied to minority students also applied to male nursing applicants (and poor people, etc). I think these programs get less press, but they're not uncommon.