Is OpenOffice.org a Threat? Microsoft Thinks So 467
Glyn Moody writes "Most people regard OpenOffice.org as a distant runner-up to Microsoft Office, and certainly not a serious rival. Microsoft seems to feel otherwise, judging by a new job posting on its site for a 'Linux and Open Office Compete Lead.' According to this, competing with both GNU/Linux and OpenOffice.org is 'one of the biggest issues that is top of mind' for no less a person than Steve Ballmer. Interestingly, a key part of this position is 'engaging with Open Source communities and organizations' — which suggests that Microsoft's new-found eagerness to 'engage' with open source has nothing to do with a real desire to reach a pacific accommodation with free software, but is simply a way for Microsoft to fight against it from close up, and armed with inside knowledge."
I installed the latest OO, definitely not a threat (Score:1, Interesting)
So I got a netbook for my wife for Christmas and the Dell 10v I got for $266 comes with Microsoft Works--which unfortunately does not, well, 'work' all that well. My wife hates Google Docs (which I use basically for everything that's not work related now) so I installed OpenOffice figuring that it would be about the same. Umm, yeah, it opens shit but the functionality of the software fucking sucks.
Prime example: I open a CSV file on the web. Firefox doesn't already know that CSV should be tied to OO? Shouldn't that have occurred at install time by OO? No, ok, I'll set it up--done. Takes a long fucking time to open OO. I mean a LONG time. It opens, sweet. I select all the fields and go to resize them all with a single click but--nothing happens. WTF? I try again. Nothing. I look on the menu bar quickly--nothing. WTF?
Listen, I'm glad that it opened my CSV and I'm glad it is free but for people to seriously consider it a contender, it better work like I expect it to work and everyone else expects it to work--and that expectation is based on experience with Office. Oh and BTW, Google Docs opened that same CSV and I was able to resize the fields as I expected.
Competitor, maybe, but threat, no.
My guess.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Is that while it currently is no threat, they are preparing for the future. Whether or not the threat actually does arise or not is irrelevant, as MS has the money to throw at this minor inconvenience, to attempt to stop it before it becomes a major threat.
Flip Flop (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is they continually flip flop, one week they are seeking open source interaction and the next week they are attacking it and it's supporters. It all seems to be driven by nothing more than the current marketing image they wish to present. Although it does seem that M$ leans more to open source when they get screwed over by some patent dispute.
Really for them to put a foot forward they actually need to release their own branded version of a recognised open source software package and adhere to the requirements of the licence, even should their version substantially vary and they choose to host and make it available.
So what will it be, VLC, Firefox or maybe something Ruby. I think OpenOffice,org or a Linux distribution is way, way to far a stretch for them, they just lack that kind of mental flexibility and out of the box thinking.
I think MS has lost the battle already... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been in IT for over 20 years now; and until 7 years ago, Office was my mostly used application. Nowadays though I hardly ever use Word or Excel, I've used Powerpoint more often though. At a hospital I consult; we changed to OOo and after changing the default save format option to the corresponding Office equivalents; the users hardly noticed the difference.
These days the only application used in offices is the browser, and Firefox has already won the battle and the war on that front.
Re:I installed the latest OO, definitely not a thr (Score:5, Interesting)
unless you compare it to the full Microsoft office on the same machine it is not really a fair comparison.
"I select all the fields and go to resize them all with a single click but--nothing happens. WTF? I try again. Nothing. I look on the menu bar quickly--nothing. WTF?"
OO does not duplicate all the functionality and gui of MS Office, it is a slight learning experience as it is a different product. But i for one have had more "wow, this such a better and more intuitive way of doing things" then "where have they put that" moments using OO.
OO is a work-alike-mostly-sorta to MS Office... (Score:3, Interesting)
But, my wife, who is an MS Office expert, can't stand it. It is just too limited and clunky compared to Office, she says. So, for her PC, I fork out the $$ and buy Office. Oh, and MS Office is on our shared MacBook.
For the "serious user" market, OO is not currently a threat to MS Office. But for the casual, "use it once in awhile" market, it is. Now, given Microsoft's history of competing against incumbent, entrenched players by targeting the bottom end of a market and improving over time with increasingly competitive but still cheaper technology, they are probably very sensitive to seeing OO become the easy choice for the entry-level user.
Re:This must be a big joke (Score:5, Interesting)
Rebuttals:
1. And Microsoft Office looks aged compared to anything I've seen on CSI. I'm not sure I want my office software looking like something I've seen on CSI, so being aged isn't a bad thing. Oh, and get off my lawn.
2. It takes a while to load because Office has probably already pre-loaded most of itself and just pops up a main window when you open a document. Ever wonder why Windows is so slow to boot?
3. Yeah, I wish I could do python scripting in Open Office, or save straight to PDF from my OpenOffice Writer, or create equations with LaTeX in my OpenOffice Impress presentations. Oh wait...
4. Educational Institutions are normally the first to try new things, since they have a higher proportion of geeks in the place. There's also well documented cases of local governments switching to OO.org and Linux. And some switching back after getting sweeteners from MS, but that's the point of the original article. MS sees a threat.
5. What do you want it to develop into ffs? Emacs?
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. (Score:5, Interesting)
Sounds pretty normal for Microsoft.
I use IBM's Lotus Symphony [lotus.com] package, myself. Good support, and it "looks" far better than OpenOffice (which sometimes makes all the difference when you're trying to convince someone to use it. That, and it's got native Mac, PC, and Ubuntu versions.
MS is ambivilent (Score:1, Interesting)
I work for a reseller of Microsoft (and other vendors') software and have attended many MS presentations about Office vs. OOo vs. Google Apps. Microsoft is marginally worried about Openoffice in some geographies (mainly France where the government freely gives out OOo disks at the taxpayers' expense) but has a clear objection handling routine for everywhere else. Basically, Microsoft urges companies to to try Openoffice so that they can learn how dated and incompatible it is with the business world in general. They also push organizations to try Evolution instead of Outlook for the same reasons.
You'd be surprised how many emails we get out of the blue stating "we're an all Linux shop but we want an Exchange server with Outlook licenses for compatibility reasons. How much for a server and 100 seats of Office?"
Anyway, Microsoft's real fear right now is Google Apps. Everybody, even Google, knows how inferior Apps is to Office, but the sexy Google name greases the runway to bring this cloud-based office solution into more and more workplaces. Microsoft is fighting tooth and nail to prevent every single switch from Office to Apps. Openoffice is hardly on Microsoft's radar compared to Google.
Re:I use it because... (Score:3, Interesting)
Luckily for me, my company is still using MS Office 2003. I really don't have any need for office software on my home PC, but if the need arises I'll surely go OO.
I do think Excel is the best spreadsheet out there, certainly the best of the three I deal with at work The other two are Quattro and Lotus, which makes it pretty easy for Excel to excel in the spreadsheet wars. Lotus wants to take over your whole computer like some damned virus. It's the most "in your face" spreadsheet I've ever used, and getting rid of all the crap it puts on startup was a pain, especially since I only use it about four times a year. Quattro is just plain broken; "print" a graph in PDF and it cuts most of the page off. It's no threat to Excel, either.
The one thing I really hate about MS Office is MS Access, but that's probably because I'd used dBase, FoxPro and Clipper on the PC, and Nomad on the mainframe for years. Both those languages are human-readable and I can do about anything in them, but I haven't had many dealings with the mainframe in years. Clipper and dBase have been dead for years, and since MS bought out Foxpro it's gotten steadily less user-friendly with each "upgrade". I gave up on it with the last upgrade.
Having a GUI like MS office might have some advantages, but there are disadvantages, too, if you don't like the way MS programs interface with the user (which I don't).
Why are you hitting yourself misses gnu? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I use it because... (Score:3, Interesting)
And that plug-in would have been shipped as a feature, except for Adobe's teeth gnashing and threatening of lawsuits.
Here's a pro-tip: PDF is only an open format if you're too small a company to effectively compete with Adobe.
Re:duohce boag (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree there are those slashdotters who believe so much in Free software they want the for profits to fail. Not everyone, though.
There are many for profits I hope succeed. I want the bad ones (and there are MANY types of bad companies) to fail. I also want companies to play fairly and not use sticks like "intellectual property" to shut other (usually smaller) businesses and individuals down.
I believe that for applications that many, many people use (OS, Office, web technologies, etc) Free software is the way to go because it is OPEN and it allows everyone to interact. There are many pieces of software that are more limited (like for a small specific industry) that wouldn't get built if it wasn't for For Profit companies because it takes a lot of interest to get an Open Source product off the ground and a big pool of potential users and developers. There has to be motivation somewhere. I think Linux works because of a huge amount of interest and people that need it. I think if you are one of 5 businesses in the world that make a certain type of widget, however, then you are not going to get Open Source to help you on your very specific software need and that's a good fit for a for profit company.
Openoffice has already affected Microsoft. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This must be a big joke (Score:1, Interesting)
Rebuttals:
2. It takes a while to load because Office has probably already pre-loaded most of itself and just pops up a main window when you open a document. Ever wonder why Windows is so slow to boot?
I can't find any evidence of preloading on this 500MHz laptop, yet Office2003 still loads (Word) in 2 seconds. I don't even dare try OpenOffice on this machine given how slow it has always been to load on much faster PCs.
Re:Frist posat (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft makes money, so obviously they would use this as a competitive advantage.
The problem is not that Microsoft would compete with OpenOffice. The problem is that Microsoft will unethically leverage its position as Monopoly to destroy OpenOffice. Many commercial companies will ethically compete with each other. As a corporate culture Microsoft does not want to compete in a market. They want to have 90%+ share of a market and will do whatever is necessary to shrink or kill all other competitors. This is not typical nor ethical behavior.
So you want to love those conferences to death. I’ve killed at least two Mac conferences. James Plamondon, Microsoft [boycottnovell.com]
Microsoft does not care if its competition is another commercial venture, a non-profit corporation, a hobbyist or a government. If it competes with Microsoft in any market where Microsoft does not hold at least 90% of the market then their goal is to minimize, marginalize and even torpedo, and kill the competition. Without regard for ethical behavior or what means are necessary to do so.
Some would say "Microsoft has changed, the now want to work with the FOSS community." To see if that statement is accurate, or if as a corporate culture they are still up to their old tricks, we need to analyze their motives. In this instance, this would be to analyze their motives in regard to OpenOffice AND to glean from it how seriously they take OpenOffice as a competitor in the market. The fact that they have a position entitled "Linux and Open Office Compete Lead" is an indicator of how serious they are about both Linux and OpenOffice.
Traditionally being in Microsoft's sniper scope has not worked out well for other companies. On the other hand as someone once said:
Q. What's the difference between Batman and Bill Gates?
A. When Batman fought the Penguin, he won.
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Protect the Cash Cows (Score:5, Interesting)
This reminds me of a story I think I saw here years ago.
Guy is told that they will be moving over to MS Exchange (this would have been in '97 or so). So he does his job and sets up Exchange. World goes to hell. E-Mail doesn't work several times a day, server crashes routinely, etc. His boss and users are on his ass constantly. It all becomes too much for the guy, who was told to do this over his own objections.
Monday morning, e-mail is working fine. It is all smooth sailing. Boss and users are happy. Management is content with their savvy in buying Exchange. A year or something later, the guy quits but not before leaving up to date documentation for the new guy.
First page of the documentation welcomes the replacement and says not to worry, everything he needs to know is in this folder. There are two sections: 1) What is official policy 2) What we actually do. The official policy is that we run Exchange for e-mail and here is the stuff to tell the boss about Exchange if there are ever problems. The actual policy is that we run Debian and postfix, since Exchange was a disaster, and here is how to do maintenance; tell no one except whoever replaces you.
Re:duohce boag (Score:3, Interesting)
There's more than one angle to it, here's a few I can personally relate to:
1. Some of this for-profit software seems outrageously overpriced for its functionality, a position of greed that can only be protected by eliminating all affordable alternatives. This results in hostile takeovers of free-software projects, or abusive litigation to destroy the projects, which rarely have any funding to support a court battle.
2. High quality free software stimulates innovation, in both the free and for-profit realms, and the pursuit of knowledge is generally considered a good thing.
3. Free software has been the backbone of the internet for a very long time, and has enabled widespread adoption of technology and education in areas that could not afford commercial software.
4. We don't want to be fighting the for-profit sector, which has its rightful place in the industry. They are the ones picking fights IN LIEU OF releasing superior products, and we have to defend what we think is right.
Re:Still using old Gnome office suite (Score:2, Interesting)
Gnumeric is a truly excellent program. Unfortunately, acceptance of the "Gnome Office" suite was sadly marred by fact that Abiword is just not in the same league. But OOo (and its close cousin, NeoOffice) has overcome its earlier shortcomings, and is now more than just a serious alternative to MSOffice. On my Linux boxes I don't have much of a choice (apart from Latex/LyX/TeX), but on my MacBook, I haven't fired up MSOffice in months.
Re:I use it because... (Score:2, Interesting)
If an app has too many options, in my opinion they should "googlify" their menu system such that one can type in words or partial words in a search box and get a list of feature options that match. Menu trees and tool-bars have outlived their usefulness, at least as the sole interface. Have an internal table of the options along with synonyms etc. rather than hard-code them to menus in order to make searching easier. If OOO did this, it would be easier for different UI techniques to be explored.
Re:I use it because... (Score:3, Interesting)
That’s because it’s a half-assed solution, that sits between two already crappy starting points: text menus, and icon bars.
That mouse-controlled icon bars are stupid, in a text processor, should be totally obvious, so I’m not commenting on them.
And menus are bad, because they are very limited, simple UI elements. No multiple choice, no parameters, no nothing. For that they use modal dialogs. Which are just plainly idiotic.
The idea of the ribbon came from the more than a decade old InfoBox in Lotus products, that you got in e.g. WordPro (part of SmartSuite).
But other than the InfoBox, the ribbon still is more of a icon bar than anything else. It still lacks big parts of the functionality. There still in no separation between object properties and wizards. No way to choose the parent object to apply things to it. It’s just a big piece of half-assed failure.
And even the InfoBox still was relatively bad, since there was little you could do with it, without using the mouse.
A good UI does not have to limit itself to text. But it should also never go for colorful clickables where you have to guess what they mean. (I fully expect an MS PHB go “But we’re excluding the part of our target group, who can’t [even fuckin’] read!” ^^)
Sorry, I can’t list all the changes I would make to that UI to make it as good as I can. Because that would be so much, that I rather just scrap it all and start over from scratch.
Re:Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. (Score:2, Interesting)