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Windows Microsoft Operating Systems Technology

The Secret Origin of Windows 402

harrymcc writes "Windows has been so dominant for so long that it's easy to forget Windows 1.0 was vaporware, mocked both outside and inside of Microsoft — and that its immediate successors were considered stopgaps until OS/2 was everywhere. Tandy Trower, the product manager who finally got Windows 1.0 out the door a quarter century ago, has written a memoir of the experience. (He thought being assigned the much-maligned project was Microsoft's fiendish way of trying to get rid of him.) The story involves such still-significant figures as Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Ray Ozzie, and Nathan Myhrvold; Trower left Microsoft only in November of 2009 after 28 years with the company."
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The Secret Origin of Windows

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  • by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @02:15PM (#31416696) Journal

    ...of Windows 1.02 (or was it 1.12) on 720k, 3.5" floppy. And no, I never used it - DOS was king and there were better file management programs at the time (which is all Win was at that point, iirc).

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @02:15PM (#31416700)

    Pipe firmly in mouth and cheek.

  • by sageres ( 561626 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @02:23PM (#31416794)
    Windows has been around for 25 years, and the windowing GUI probably longer (I believe Bill took the concept from Steve who took the concept from Xerox). And lets face it, Compiz does not qualify as a new type of GUI. I would love to see a brand new concepts, such as Sun's Looking Glass https://lg3d.dev.java.net/ [java.net] (now defunct) (or perhaps even better ideas then that, anyone knows of any?) But it would be nice to get more innovation in that department.
  • Re:Oi woz there (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Chyeld ( 713439 ) <chyeld@gma i l . c om> on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @02:34PM (#31416948)

    Back before Bit Torrent, sometimes you actually had to pay for software before you'd know if it was any good.

  • by heffrey ( 229704 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @02:37PM (#31416998)

    Guess it actually had a different destiny!

  • Re:To be fair... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @02:38PM (#31417016)

    That video was made in what, 1985? And Windows sold for $99 according to the ad.

    Today, Windows 7 (NOT AN UPGRADE) [amazon.com] goes for $178.54 on Amazon and lists for $199. According to the Minneapolis Fed [minneapolisfed.org], $99 in 1985 is worth $200.21 in 2010 - in other Words, inflation adjusted, Microsoft hasn't raised the price of Windows. And if you include all of the programs that are included with Windows 7 that you would normally have had to have purchased separately back in '85 (compression, file management, image viewers, etc, etc...) Windows has gone down dramatically. Now, they've been labeled a monopoly in court, but they're pricing isn't that of a monopolist. Actually, they've given the consumer a really nice value.

    Now, cue the MS haters who are going to accuse me of being an "apologist" and for being a "revisionist". Whatever. I just think it's an interesting micro economic case study.

    BTW, get a life.

  • by mini me ( 132455 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @02:41PM (#31417044)

    would love to see a brand new concepts

    You mean like iPhone OS? Call the iPad a gimmick if you want, but it does bring with it a brand new concept on human-computer interaction. One that I feel will carry over into traditional keyboard/mouse computing in the future.

  • Re:To be fair... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by headkase ( 533448 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @02:45PM (#31417088)
    Economists until very recently denied that the factor called "lock-in" even existed. Yes, a bunch of old stuffies insisting that what they say is the way the world works even when they miss some big pieces. I wish I could find the quote which showed that attitude however Google is now polluted so much with the phrase "lock-in" that it's all noise searching for when it wasn't that way. Left field: My operating system is Free, if everyone saw that obvious value and weren't tied to existing applications and data they'd all jump ship immediately and by doing so would also immediately raise my operating system's quality of code to amazing levels: just because of the weight of bug reports and new blood of code.
  • Re:To be fair... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StayFrosty ( 1521445 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:01PM (#31417318)
    What OS is forked thousands of times? I'm pretty sure "forked" doesn't mean what you think it means.
  • Re:To be fair... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by obarthelemy ( 160321 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:07PM (#31417408)

    to be REALLY fair, windows 7's market is bigger than Windows 1.0's was.1985 = 30 million PCs, 2007 = 1 billion PCs . Since costs are fairly fixed (dev accounts for a lot, DVD+packaging for almost nothing), we could expect the price to be $200 x 30 / 1,000 = $6, assuming stable dev costs, which they obviously weren't quite... but that raw calculation is no dumber than yours... actually may be a bit smarter .

  • Re:To be fair... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zennyboy ( 1002544 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:08PM (#31417414)
    I think people mainly think of as % of a complete PC. PC then? $3-5000? Windows $99. Do the maths... Now, PC=£400 (dunno in $). Windows=$200... NOW do the maths...
  • Re:To be fair... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:26PM (#31417676)

    Since costs are fairly fixed (dev accounts for a lot, DVD+packaging for almost nothing), we could expect the price to be $200 x 30 / 1,000 = $6, assuming stable dev costs.

    But that is a ridiculous assumption. Vista cost 6 billion dollars to develop. Accounting for time, if dev costs were stable then Windows 1.0 should have cost 3 billion to develop. I'm pretty sure it didn't.

    The OP has basically shown that in terms of % of disposable income, the price of Windows has not gone up. You are apparently arguing that Microsoft should not make more money when more people buy their products...

  • Re:To be fair... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Whalou ( 721698 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:29PM (#31417696)
    Don't forget that Microsoft saves a ton of money by not shipping Windows 7 on floppy disks.
  • by samkass ( 174571 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:33PM (#31417760) Homepage Journal

    (I believe Bill took the concept from Steve who bought the concept from Xerox)

    Just corrected that common misconception in your statement. Apple actually paid Xerox in Apple shares for those visits, and at the time it was said to be the most lucrative thing PARC had done up to then.

  • by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:42PM (#31417864) Journal

    NT was a solid OS. Then they let the hardware vendors back into ring 0 so that games would run faster.

  • Re:Oi woz there (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dcollins ( 135727 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:43PM (#31417882) Homepage

    "One of them seriously thought Windows started with 95."

    Ouch. Wow.

  • Re:So what? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by aztracker1 ( 702135 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:54PM (#31418046) Homepage
    We could compare to Netware, Lantastic and other solutions that were displaced by the Windows Server solutions though...
  • Re:To be fair... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by headkase ( 533448 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:54PM (#31418062)
    It's not that Windows shouldn't exist its just that overall it is unhealthy for the market to have such a dominant player. Great for making money but not great for following what customers actually want instead of given.
  • Re:Sub-Optimal (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PitaBred ( 632671 ) <slashdot&pitabred,dyndns,org> on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @03:58PM (#31418134) Homepage

    There are local saddle points as well as global ones... sometimes a market gets stuck in a local one even though the global one would be overall better because it takes work to climb out of the local saddle.

  • by melted ( 227442 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @04:02PM (#31418196) Homepage

    >> "the product manager who finally got Windows 1.0 out the door"

    Yeah, I'm sure Microsoft engineers had nothing to do with it. He wrote it all by himself and shipped it.

    The quoted phrase pretty much sums up what's wrong with the vast majority of tech companies (including Microsoft) -- they're no longer engineer-centric.

  • by aztracker1 ( 702135 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @04:10PM (#31418296) Homepage
    I liked the OS/2 warp UI myself... I liked it a lot better than windows 3.x, I remember IBM releasing it's Presentation Manager as a UI replacement for Windows 3.x, I used that a lot. I think IBM's downfall was not embracing developers. I think if IBM game away it's developer tools for OS/2 it would be king of the hill today, and they'd have made a killing on OS sales. I think the other issue is that other vendors didn't want to buy their OS from a desktop competitor. OS/2 could have been great a few years ahead of Windows. Once NT4 came out in late '96 I jumped over to the dark side. I've jumped between windows a linux since then, with a couple hackintosh excursions along the way. I think IBM missed the boat though.
  • Re:Oi woz there (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @04:19PM (#31418422)

    Just wait'll you find the ones who seriously thought computers started with Windows 95...

  • Re:Sub-Optimal (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @04:19PM (#31418426)
    It's also hard for the market to find the optimal solution when the biggest players lobby the government to fix the market.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @04:20PM (#31418438)

    That depends on who you ask.
    From a business perspective, it couldn't possibly have done better.
    From a technical perspective, it couldn't possibly have done worse.

  • Re:To be fair... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by StayFrosty ( 1521445 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @04:35PM (#31418662)
    The word you are looking for is branch. When a distribution packages a piece of software, they usually take a release from upstream, add any patches (create their custom branch) compile it and release their package. If they decided to fork the code, that would imply that they continue to develop the software on their own without the help or contributions from the upstream developers.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @04:40PM (#31418762)

    When I think of vaporware, I think of software that has vaporized; not software that's still being worked on.

    When I think of eggs, I think of beef. Does that mean I had steak for breakfast?

  • Re:To be fair... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by headkase ( 533448 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @04:51PM (#31418910)
    Point: driver support on Linux could be much better. Although with no help from the manufacturers of the machinery reverse-engineering efforts are doing quite well. I view it as an education issue, yes RMS is extreme: I also agree with him in a lot of places but what device manufacturers should realize as well is that they are selling the machine not the software. The software is of little value: it is just to make the machine you make money off of go. Some manufacturers such as Canon have even been approached by the Linux Driver Project [endolith.com] and offered to have drivers written for free for them under NDA and they have declined. Manufacturers think that maybe contributing to the software pot will devalue their effectiveness in competition but what they don't realize is that if as a group they released their specs at a minimum or just contributed code that it would level the playing field: they'd be back to competing on the quality of their actual machines. It will take a breakthrough in thought to fix this situation, some examples are encouraging such as Ati's support for writing open drivers for their graphics cards. As more efforts such as this accumulate someday we will see the issues of drivers be much lessened or go away entirely. It is part of the history of Linux: it's been an uphill battle the entire way but progress is being made.
  • Re:No thanks. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by plague3106 ( 71849 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @05:00PM (#31419024)

    Fuck you, I'm not going to fix someone elses work when there's something out there that WILL work. I have better things to do with my time, and forced charity isn't one of them.

  • by sgt_doom ( 655561 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @05:06PM (#31419112)

    Oh puuuhhhhlease....Cathedral and Bazaar was such a complete crock.

    The only reason the largest software pirate on the planet, Micro$oft, had all that time to futz around with an endless version number of windows, was because they had the greatest monopoly the world has ever seen: DOS LICENSING.

    And the only reason they ever achieved OS supremecy was that they licensed, then copied (i.e., stole) into Windows OS everyone else's original technology. End of that story.

    And now the World Domination Society controls everything....

  • Re:No thanks. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by headkase ( 533448 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @05:08PM (#31419136)
    Your little bit of charity gets you a whole operating system and ecosystem of applications back for Free. Selfish does not begin to describe your statement.
  • Re:To be fair... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @05:38PM (#31419568) Homepage

    > For example, I'm sure that with very little effort Linux developers could design and implement
    > a stable ABI which would finally solve a problem which has been plaguing Linux for years, and
    > that is the nightmare of shopping for Linux compatible devices at retail. You see if someone

          Nonsense. A "stable ABI" has squat to do with it. A "stable ABI" doesn't help MacOS.

          This is all about marketshare and whether or not a CORPORATION feels that it makes sense
    for them to explicitly support a particular set of customers. On the one hand, many corporations
    don't feel that explicit Linux support is worthwhile. On the other hand, there are plenty of
    people in the community that can do a better job for most devices.

          Stuff like GPUs is a notable exception of both princples: the drivers are more difficult and
    you have companies that feel that explicit binary driver support is worthwhile.

          Shopping for Linux hardware is not a "nightmare". That is just mindless Lemming FUD.

          You know the great thing about Wal-mart? They have great return policies. So if you are
    worried about something "not working with Linux" then buy it from then and then take it back
    if you don't have any luck. It's not really a great tragedy. You would not get bent out of
    shape if it were pants.

          So take it back if it doesn't work out exactly how you wanted it.

          This principle works well for HDTV antennas too.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2010 @07:56PM (#31421166)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:To be fair... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LordVader717 ( 888547 ) on Thursday March 11, 2010 @12:48PM (#31439672)

    Which, obviously, means they don't need to be competitive. It's not like their customers have a choice.

    A situation where there is truly only one seller is exceedingly rare. The term monopoly is used mostly for situations where one seller controls the vast majority of the market. Usually there are competitors or alternatives. Even just the potential of someone setting up business is enough.

    But the nature of the market often means that these alternatives are an unreasonable choice.

    I don't. I do think it's pretty much impossible for them to not be perceived as "acting like a dick", but that's a different thing.

    Your argument is basically
    "Monopolists charge high prices and sell and never develop products. Microsoft improved Windows. Therfore Microsoft is not a monopoly."
    Apart from being a logical fallacy (Affirming a disjunct), your proposition is simply wrong.

    Why ? Their customers don't have any alternatives. That's what a monopoly is.

    Because otherwise someone will come along with a product that is better and people will buy it, or the unreasonable alternatives suddenly become more reasonable.

    Has nothing to do with it.

    doesn't need to [...] improve their product, drop their prices
    sat on their asses for the last 15 years charging $99 for every copy of Windows 95

    Yeah, Nothing at all /sarcasm

    I don't think there's another reason. That's _exactly_ why I think Windows has improved - to stay competitive. It's the premise that Windows is/was monopoly I disagree with.

    Well that helps a lot, it's the first time you've clarified your position.
    Thing is, if you've been paying attention for last, say, thirty years, you'd know that the term has come to describe extremely dominant businesses which use anti-competitive 'monopolistic' practices to expand their share and supress rivals. And that certainly applies to Microsoft.

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