Disgruntled Ex-Employee Remotely Disables 100 Cars 384
hansamurai writes "Over one hundred cars equipped with a Webtech Plus blackbox were remotely disabled when a former employee of dealership Texas Auto Center got hold of his employer's database of users. Webtech Plus is repossession software that allows the dealership to disable a car's ignition or trigger the horn to honk when a payment is due. Owners had to remove the battery to stop the incessant honking. After the dealership began fielding an unusually high number of calls from upset car owners, they changed the passwords to the Webtech Plus software and then traced the IP address used to access the client to its former employee."
Re:and (Score:1, Insightful)
To get Wired more traffic.
Re:and (Score:5, Insightful)
this makes front page of slashdot, why?
Because it makes the idiots who claim this kind of backdoor would never be misused look bad. Why are you protesting so much, anyway?
Re:I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure. You don't qualify for a car loan, but they'll sell you a car, with a 5% per month interest rate, all sorts of fees, and a "you pass by the office by such-and-such a date with the cash or we kill your car" deal. Lots of cash income, much of it undeclared by the dealer, since the financing is not reported to credit rating agencies (it's called "in house financing" for a reason :-)
The car analogy? It's like getting a sh*tty deal on a sh*tty car.
Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)
Even better, Onstar, unlike this service, cuts across multiple demographics. Most of the people with credit so shitty that used car vendors are installing remote kill switches are probably the sort that the police already know how to "deal with", so to speak(after all, what is some overworked public defender going to do about it if they 'slip and fall' during a little friendly questioning?). Onstar, though, is a service that gives you access to the sort of people you can't just pull over and shake down....
What a maroon. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're going to play around with your ex-employer's systems like that, you don't do it from your own home. You go interstate, to a 'net cafe, and do it from there! Sheesh. Kids these days.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:2, Insightful)
If the vehicle is otherwise a good deal, I think it is fairly straightforward to either pull the fuse or disconnect the antenna.
/. where are you? (Score:0, Insightful)
I have been reading /. for a couple years now as anon coward, and I have seen a huge decline in conversation recently. I am not trolling, I am concerned. I enjoy the tinfoil hat banter, I enjoy the uninformed but concerned banter, and I also enjoy the informed and willing to share banter. /. has sparked my wonder, concern and inquisitiveness....Where has this gone? It seems like it's flooded with negative non-informed slander. I want it back...I understand that as an anon coward, I don't have pull, but I will miss something in my life, if it comes to another .com that I regular.
Re:Back door? (Score:5, Insightful)
It is a back door. It's a back door installed by the dealer into your car with the assurance that it won't be misused.
The "front door" would be for them to send you a letter when you miss a payment, and send someone over to repossess the car if you continue to miss them, but I guess they feel that the tiny number of people who would try to steal the car justifies inflicting this system on all of their customers.
Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps Toyota should review which Engineers have been fired lately.
Re:I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What a maroon. (Score:2, Insightful)
As another point, I hope that the dealership is prosecuted for this. If they are providing loans, they have sensitive data, and if they are not changing passwords when an employee is terminated, one can assume that they have equally ineffective control of customer data, such as social security numbers. It is a good this that this guy was only trying to be annoying, or at least we hope so.
And THIS, ladies and gentlemen... (Score:5, Insightful)
...is the perfect example (and with car analogy indeed) of why DRM and remote product (de)activation is doomed to failure.
Re:Back door? (Score:5, Insightful)
No.
The real question is what the blistering hell are remote kill switches doing on cars in the first place?
I'm sure there's an iPhone analogy somewhere here...
"Smart meters" do this for your home (Score:1, Insightful)
The new "smart meters" being installed on homes not only do power monitoring but also do remote control, often over a wireless mesh network. How long until this ability is abused or repurposed?
Re:I don't understand (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I don't understand (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? Do the "worst of the deadbeats" somehow still deserve credit? Credit isn't a basic human right. For that matter, owning a car isn't a basic human right, either.
If the deadbeats "need" a car, they really "need" to save enough money to buy one. I'm sorry about your destitute friend's situation, but I didn't extend her the credit that she defaulted on in the first place. I didn't give her the bad debt history. If she "hit a rough patch", she was already overextended when she hit it. Her creditors deserved to lose the money they never should have loaned her in the first place, but they also have the right to honestly report her repayment behavior to the credit bureaus -- it's why they keep track of such things.
Anyone stupid enough to loan money to someone who has walked away from their previous debts deserves the chance to lose any money they loan that person. Usurious loans fall under that category, too.
Re:Should have changed password right away (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't think that goes far enough. Here is my proposal:
1. remove all clothes and perform anal cavity search - he could be taking company property with him
2. place in a straight jacket and a muzzle before escorting out - he could try attacking or biting other employees
3. install a radio controlled explosive device inside the body, to go off if he ever gets within 100 feet of the office building
It's the only way to be sure.
Re:Maroons make the news (Score:5, Insightful)
Non-maroons who do stuff like this, do it from net cafes using a chain of anonymous proxys, and they do not get caught.
It's just the maroons like this one that you hear about.
If I was ever going to consider doing this I'd buy a cheap laptop off Craigslist for cash, and then buy a wireless card for cash from another location, and then drive to some community in the middle of nowhere and look for an open wireless AP. After which I would then pass said laptop through a shedder .. a really big shredder.
Re:Maroons make the news (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
That's false. For one, about half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by people with medical insurance who can't pay their medical bills. And another, if you want to get a divorce, just start an account and tell your partner "that's the divorce account so that I won't be overextended in case of divorce." That's only slightly worse than hiding money away without telling them what it's for.
Re:I don't understand (Score:4, Insightful)
If the deadbeats "need" a car, they really "need" to save enough money to buy one
I've bought 3 cars in my life for under $200 each, you don't "need" to buy a car on credit.
Anyone stupid enough to loan money to someone who has walked away from their previous debts deserves the chance to lose any money they loan that person.
And if they've loaned that money on the condition they can reclaim the car/home/kidney if the debtor stops paying, they have the right to reclaim it. I'm pretty confident those dealers aren't losing money on these loans. Its a much worse deal for the consumer than it is for the dealer, you can be sure of that
Re:I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
For one, about half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by people with medical insurance who can't pay their medical bills.
I used that fact on another forum, and someone countered that the amount of $$$ that the bankruptcies were for was in the order of $1000 or so. My first thought was - "bastard, shoot my argument down why don't you". Then my second thought was "Jeez, is that how little money separates the majority of people from bankruptcy. Thats really sad".
It Is My Sad Duty To Inform You... (Score:4, Insightful)
Dear Mr. Goosnarp:
I regret to inform you that the dealership no longer requires your services. Please don't assume that we believe you are without value as an employee and a human being, it's just that your particular skillset is not what we really need right now. Although you consistently exhibit a very high level of originality, and your computer skills easily surpass anyone else currently in our employ, we need somebody who pays more attention to the small details (cough) IP addy (cough).
We wish you well in your future endeavors, and would be delighted to supply a positive recommendation to any prospective employers who may contact us...as long as you don't do anything stupid.
Sincerely,
Your Former Boss
Re:I don't understand (Score:4, Insightful)
You do realize that all of it is in the contract you sign up front so you know what you are spending if you bothered to read.
Second, you won't find a contract that says you have time after the due date before they can collect the item. Every contract states clearly that the instant you are late they can start the recovery process. If you don't want them to start the recovery process, follow the rules. If you don't like the rules, don't sign the contract, its not hard.
Just because you're used to living in a world where companies realize that most of the time its easier to float you a few days than it is to start the collection process and piss you off doesn't mean you have any sort of right or expectation that you should be able to bend the rules of the contract.
Its funny, you think its okay for you to bend the rules, but not for them to make unfair ones.
Thats pretty fucked up if you really sit down and think about it.
Re:I don't understand (Score:2, Insightful)
never understood why banks expect to make money by charging higher interest rates to those who are least able to pay in the first place.
Perhaps because you aren't very bright? Its statistics. Loan 100 people $1,000 at 30%, even if 10 don't pay you back anything, you make $17,000, a 17% return on investment. Now assume those 10 paid 25% of the loan back before defaulting, and you then succeeded in getting 8 of the cars back to resell at $1,000 each, and the two you didn't get back only cost you $200 at auction, the late fees you tacked onto the 20 who were slow paying you back, and margins go through the roof!
I have good credit, I don't understand how the bank makes money loaning me $ at 3.9% interest when I can't even get that good a rate on my mortgage
Re:They shouldn't be able to listen, but more comp (Score:5, Insightful)
My sister is like that... Willing to remove all risk from her life and put control in the hands of other people for the safety of her kids. That's all well and good, but I don't need someone having the ability to remotely disable my automobile regardless of my distance from the person with their finger on the button. Sure, responsibility for my family is is important, but I don't need the specter of a nanny snooping in and judging me because I want to listen to some Middle Eastern music.
Life is risk. When you shed risk, it's usually at a price.
Re:Back door? (Score:3, Insightful)
Will you spend 2 minutes to read the fucking article. It gets removed for free after the last payment.
If you're going to comment on something you didn't read at least pretend to know the answers.
Re:Repo in AZ (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not your car, you failed to pay for it. Is the security guard who protects the banks money a scumbag too?
Re:I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
>Its statistics.
No, it's just arithmetic. Stats is concerned with how likely and how often defaults may occur, not the overall gain or loss as a result.
>Perhaps because you aren't very bright?
Don't be a dick unless you are absolutely sure you are right. Even then, don't be a dick.
Re:So... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's awfully glib. How do you propose people save up the money to buy a car with cash, if they can't get to work because they don't have transportation? This is America, after all, where public transit is between nonexistent and useless in most cities.
Re:I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you can just set up automatic payments for everything.
This works well up until there is a problem or billing dispute. For example, I know of someone who had automatic payments being made from their account to the electric company. The utility decided that some damage that he didn't think he was responsible for was, in fact, his responsibility so they withdrew $7500 from his bank account. He discovered this when his other cheques and whatnot started bouncing.
I have nothing set up for automatic payments. It doesn't take that long to write someone a cheque and put it in the mail, and I retain control of my own bank account and know that money won't be magically disappearing.
When it comes to a billing dispute, I would prefer to have them coming after me for money rather than be in a position where I am trying to get my money back from them.
I pay my bills but I want to know exactly how much I'm paying and what I got for my money. Then I'll write you a cheque.
In that order.
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
they already got it - billions of it. Bail-out bux.
Re:I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
If -that- isn't an argument that your medical system is fundamentally FUBARed then I don't know what is.
It's the worlds most expensive by far, has mediocre results (compare infant mortality or any other stat you can think of to any other country that spends above half the amount you spend) AND it regularily brings families into financial ruin, families that are ALREADY facing seriuos health-problems of one of the family-members, even those who HAVE insurance. (nevermind those who don't)
It's COMPLETELY incomprehencible to me that anyone is willing to accept that crap. Seriously.
Re:I don't understand (Score:3, Insightful)
Usury (Score:1, Insightful)
These guys are predatory lenders. They make loans they KNOW you can't repay with the intent of leaving you with nothing but debt. I say this because they want you to default. They make money when you do. You'd have to be stupid or desperate to agree to this, but there are enough of the latter that I have little sympathy for the lenders (and that's even though I realize there are plenty of people who are both).
It's usury, pure and simple. I don't consider it an honest business. If some of their deadbeat clients are bastards, I consider it about half of what the usurers deserve.
For the record, I have never had anything repossessed, nor have I missed any payments. I did accidentally bounce a check (due to having forgotten to carry a one in my check ledger)--a small donation to charity, of all things. The $75 overdraft charge was swiftly paid off and I learned my lesson: avoid debt if at all possible, because your lenders own you. If you cross the zero net worth line, they'll multiply your debt with punitive fees and imprison you financially. I also keep cash reserves now, for just such occasions, though I've never tried to zero an account since then, nor shall I.
Re:I don't understand (Score:1, Insightful)
what an old fashioned way of doing financial business. It involves manual labor (writing checks, stuffing them in envelopes), costs time, is error-prone (humans are not made to be error free with repetive tasks), involves another party (the postal system. causing delays, losses) and contains several media discontinuities (computer -> paper -> computer).
I (located in germany) handle nearly everything with automatic payments or better: withdrawel permits. The difference is the following. If I make automated payments (e.g. rent) it is technically me who does the payment. This gives me some control over the payments: I can withhold it or split it if there are disputes about the amount (e.g. the flat shows a problem with the water). The downside is, that it is nearly impossible to change it afterwards - the money is gone for this month even if there are disputes.
Withdrawel permits allow others to let their bank ask my bank for the money from my account. This is very convenient and I have the security of the right to call my bank *after the withdrawel* and cancel this in cases of disputed or unwarrented withdrawels. My bank is obliged to return my money. Downside: if the withdrawel was indeed legit it costs a hefty fee. And one has to check the accounts regulary to detect illegit withdrawels (but then again: one should always check on a regular basis).
So with electronic banking I can still retain control over my accounts and avoid the hassle and errors of manual banking. And it even saves money for me: my bank rewards electronic banking with a bonus of 1EUR/month, no fees for transactions - because they save manual labor as well.
I can't believe the possibility of filling out checks in the 21st century. I wrote my last check some 20 years ago...
Re:I don't understand (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet you folks still seem to honestly believe the "socialized medicine" would leave you WORSE off than you are ?
*shakes head sadly*
power imbalance (Score:4, Insightful)
whenever there is a power imbalance: little guy versus organization, things like desperation can move idiots to sign really stupid contracts. therefore, if the contract itself is abusive and usurious, it does not matter that you signed the contract, what matters is that one side of the contract, the one with more power, agreed to put someone in a financially abusive situation
i can make a contract that says "if you are a day late, i get your firstborn", and some idiot will still sign that contract. because people are idiots. but the observation does not end there: evil is worse than stupid
making abusive contracts is a form of preying on the weak and helpless and stupid. the weak and helpless and stupid must be protected by society, not because they deserve it, but because the assholes who prey on them get even more powerful, and pretty soon they're enforcing abusive terms on average intelligence folks of average means
so for a well functioning society, you need to punish the usurious, you need to punish those who make up abusive terms. they are far far worse than complete idiots
Re:I don't understand (Score:3, Insightful)
And the counterpoints...
1) Right now America's biggest problem isn't doctors testing too much - it's too LITTLE testing. Americans don't do any preventative medicine choosing to go to the doctor only when the damage done is already severe.
Guess what - early detection and preventative care is not only better for saving lives, it generally costs a lot less to provide.
The old adage goes that "early detection of cancer means before there are serious symptoms" - how do you equate that with a system where people are afraid to go to a doctor until the symptoms are severe ?
More importantly - I didn't say medicine should always be provided by the government, there are some possible valid concerns there though it's clear to me that your "medicine market" system comes down to saying "the right to life is on the lawbooks but only for rich people". I put "socialized medicine" in quotes on purpose - specifically to point out that I am using the term as it's use by America concervatives - to mean "any medicine not supplied with the intention of maximizing corporate profits.
The point is - I think the vast majority of Americans would get better and more frequent medical care even with the kind of government run single-payer form of universal healthcare found in countries like cuba.
My own country uses multipayer universal healthcare e.g. there are both private medical facilities and public ones. Medical insurance companies (who generally take bulk contracts with employers offering you better rates) that pay for private care, while public is free-for-all.
The catch here is that we're a very poor country - so public means long waits and overworked staff. Despite that, a few years ago I got in a motorcycle crash when I was uninsured, went to a public hospital and got excellent care and thus survived without any lasting injuries.
Brazil is just a little richer than my native South Africa, I used to be a very regular traveler there. They too have multipayer system like we do, but they have a somewhat richer country. On one of my trips I got sick, simple virus infection. Here - I would save my precious medical-savings-account (insurance part only kicks in if you're hospitalized) and just heal up at home.
There I was instantly dragged to a clinic by my hosts. True I had to wait about two hours to be helped (if I went to a private one with an appointment I could skip that, but I'd literally be paying for the convenience - the care is identical).
Once I got to a doctor though, I was fully examined. I was then prescribed a course of immune-boosting vitamins, given 3 hours of pure oxygen (another immune booster) and a series of shots to prevent secondary infections... basically 5 hours of care (suddenly waiting 2 hours isn't so bad by comparison).
Whereas normally a flu virus knocks me out for up to two weeks, I was back on my feet in 3 days.
For 86 out of 100 patients - this care won't save their lives, just get them back to work a bit quicker (hmmm isn't that GOOD for the economy ?) but now what about that 14% of people in whom influenza is fatal ? This kind of treatment probably drops the fatality rate in that country to 7% or lower (I haven't checked the numbers - but it's obvious that massive preventative care in patients having a disease with a low fatality rate would lower it).
And do you know what I paid for all those shots, the oxygen treatment, the doctor's time and the huge bottle of pills they gave me ? Squat. No bill. Not even one penny. It's free - even to a foreign tourist. The form I was given to fill in had a place for my name and age, the rest of it was valid questions on my medical history. Nobody cared about my billing address.
If Brazil can afford to give high quality medical care to it's citizens for free - America has no excuse.
Do you realize that America is the ONLY industrialized nation on the PLANET with no guaranteed free healthcare option available to all citizens ? There isn't even ONE other industrialized country where poor people HAVE t
Re:I don't understand (Score:2, Insightful)
The reason why it can take hours once you're admitted and through triage is because emergency rooms are not allowed to turn anyone away for any reason regardless of ability to pay, citizen status, etc. so anyone and everyone who doesn't have insurance and/or is outside doctor's hours will go to the emergency room for anything from congestive heart failure to a sliver in the finger.
See, I'm not from urban America, and I'm probably not from any of the areas you visited. I'm a rural New Englander. I live in an agricultural corridor, and most of what I've learned about the way the world works comes from my experiences in farming. The problem with health care is that everything in the world has a cost. It costs in money, or in time, or in supplies, or all three. Patch your own pants and it costs an hour. Buy a new pair and it costs $15 where I shop for pants. If you make $15 or more an hour, it makes more sense to work an extra hour and buy the pants than to patch them.
The problem comes when things are offered for a lower price than what they actually cost. It's nice to SAY that healthcare should be 'free', but you know as well as I do that if you get your medical degree, set up shop, and do not charge customers, you'll end up with nothing for supper when you're done treating the patients. You'll also be overrun with patients who could afford their own care.
People like free services and will use them more often when they don't cost. How much more do you consume at an all-you-can-eat restaurant? How much more often do you use a free service? When healthcare is free, people no longer ask themselves, "Do I really need this scraped knee bandaged by a nurse?" or "Is my cold really severe enough to warrant emergency treatment?" Why not get it done anyways, just to be sure? It's free!
Different governments handle this in different ways. Many have the government, having placed an artificial cost on the service, now place an artificial limit on the people. They decide how many times a year you can have a physical, which treatments you can receive, how much money you can cost The Society before you're not worth saving. It sounds cruel, but it's a simple fact of life... if you do not govern yourself, someone else will have to govern you.
Are you IN Europe? Your numbers don't match up. You say that 30% of the population earn $5/week. Then you say that the poverty rate is much lower in Europe than in the U.S. and the poor live better in Europe. However, $5/hour is below America's minimum wage, and only about 12% of the population is at or under the poverty level of $22K/year for a family of four, less for a smaller family, more for a larger one. The median household income in the U.S. is second only to Switzerland.
As for the way that the poor live in Europe, I only have one example, a friend of mine in Holland who lost his job during the economic downturns in 2002. I urged him to get some treatment for his chronic, congenital health condition (a form of rheumatism). He had no access to healthcare. In Holland, you must spend about $100 per year before the government kicks in and covers everything, and he did not have that first $100 to spend. There were no low-cost or no-cost charity clinics in his area, as there are in mine. I asked a couple of people also in Holland if they could help him, and got the startling reply that that's what the government is there for, they pay more than enough taxes for it. The lack of generosity startled me, because I am used to seeing someone in need and asking immediately wha