Internet Explorer 9 Will Not Support Windows XP 454
Posted
by
timothy
from the are-you-keeping-up-with-me dept.
from the are-you-keeping-up-with-me dept.
MojoKid writes "As it turns out, news this week is that the same features that made IE9's hardware-acceleration possible probably aren't compatible with Windows XP. Microsoft initially dodged giving a straight answer to the question of XP support but has since admitted that the new browser won't be XP-compatible when it launches. This has created a small tempest of protest from those users still using XP, but this is less of an arbitrary decision than some appear to think. It's literally impossible to port Windows Vista/Win 7-style hardware acceleration backwards to XP. Microsoft would have to either develop a workaround from scratch or create a CPU-driven 'software mode.'"
So XP users will be stuck with IE8 forever.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So XP users will be stuck with IE8 forever.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So XP users will be stuck with IE8 forever.. (Score:4, Insightful)
XP users savvy enough to upgrade to IE8 probably also have another browser. Very few corporate intranets have mandated XP/IE8. I foresee many developers having to support mainly IE6/XP and Firefox* in the near future, and maybe a quickie test on IE7 and IE8 if you have resources to do so.
* The idea is that if you wrote a reasonably standards-based site and tested with Firefox, it will work well in Chrome/Safari/Opera. Feel free to test with any other standards-based browser instead.
Good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes XP just worked. It still works better than win 7 in my regard.
However XP + ie is basically an invitation to be hacked / malwared / infected / ripped off.
ie6 is still around basically because xp is. Any one who does any sort of web stuff hates ie6. ie6 is point blank holding back the web. Of course ie 7-8 also have a truck load of issues. But it's the combination of ie + xp that is the real killer.
Lets hope win7 takes hold with ie9 and relegates the other lesser M$ combinations to the bit bucket.
( Of course I say all this and I personally only use FF and Linux )
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:3, Insightful)
>I don't use Internet Explorer, I use Firefox
So do I (plus I don't use MS-Windows).
But the real problem is that there are still many, many, many websites that DO NOT WORK unless you are using MS-Windows with Internet Explorer (and at our nearly 100% Linux shop at work, we know VERY WELL that this is the truth). We can all agree how horrible that is, but it doesn't change anything. So, those wanting to or forced to use IE-only websites might also be forced to upgrade from XP. Welcome to the effects of proprietary lock-in.
People need to stop bitching (Score:5, Insightful)
It is unreasonable to expect a vendor to continue to support their old products forever. MS has quite a long support cycle, and it is a pretty predictable one too. XP has now entered what one might call "sunset" support. They still patch it, their answer to security issues isn't "Just upgrade to a new one," but they are done adding features. It is the final version, feature wise. That ended at the end of 2009, when general support for XP was terminated. We are now under extended support, the "sunset support", until 2014.
Windows 7 is of course being upgraded and supported as it is new. General support is scheduled to end for it in 2015, and extended support in 2020, though they've been known to extend the support dates before.
That is not bad at all. XP was released in 2001. It got nearly a decade of mainstream support, and it going to have 13 years in total support. Compare that to Ubutnu LTS or OS-X and you find it is extremely long. Solaris is one of the few OSes that has support cycles of that length.
So people need to STFU. No, XP is NOT going to get anymore new features. Deal with it. If you wish to continue using XP, then you can do so without those features. If not, upgrade to a newer OS.
This isn't the first new feature XP hasn't gotten either. DirectX 10 and up are Vista and 7 only, the DWM is Vista and 7 only and so on. XP is an old OS. It's a good one, but it is an old one. They are not going to offer new stuff for it indefinitely.
For that matter Windows 2000 won't get IE9, and didn't get IE8, though it's extended support doesn't end until mid this year.
I could see people being mad if Vista weren't getting IE9 or something, or if XP wasn't getting security patched. If MS had a policy of "As soon as a new Windows comes out we completely drop the old one," that would be reason to complain. As it stands, they support their OSes for a long, long time. You get at least a decade of total support, which is quite a lot.
Re:Not surprised (Score:3, Insightful)
And who exactly flips their monitor more than twice EVER? You buy the monitor you go oh cool it can be viewed in both modes. You try it then you leave it in the mode of choice for basically every after that. Sure some wise A$$ is going to say the opposite. There is such a minority of people that ever move the monitor after plugging it in.
So again how is this on topic?
Re:People need to stop bitching (Score:3, Insightful)
Compare that to Ubutnu LTS or OS-X and you find it is extremely long.
Comparing XP's worthless out-of-box installation to any other OS which comes with (and MAINTAINS) hundreds of third-party apps is an extremely invalid comparison.
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it really a genuine problem anyway? Given the number of web sites in existence someone can probably claim "many, many, many" that do any given weird thing. I'm sure there's ones out there that still demand Netscape Navigator. But in real world web browsing does anyone really find that internet explorer is required? It doesn't happen to me. Company intranets are a different matter but that's a choice the company makes and burdens itself with (if it is a burden).
Re:People need to stop bitching (Score:0, Insightful)
Your point might be valid if Microsoft successfully came out with a new operating system every 3-4 years. But they don't. Vista was a mess as we all know and most business users have skipped it entirely. It should not even be counted as a legitimate version. Obviously Microsoft didn't consider it to be legitimate or they would not have gotten 7 out so quickly.
So, you can say "XP has been out for 10 years now", but I prefer to say, "Windows XP is the most recent version of Windows with a released service pack." Talk to me when Windows 7 Service Pack 2 comes out. That's when I'll start installing it for business users. And Microsoft should be expected to support XP for at least 5 years after that.
I idea that Microsoft is talking about ending support for the only stable operating system they currently have out is ludicrous.
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this true?
The only time I run IE is about 5 minutes after I build a computer and only then to download Firefox.
Can you give a partial list of these "many, many, many" websites, and by chance are any of them fur-fag sites?
So what? (Score:2, Insightful)
I honestly cant see a problem with this. XP is now a 9 year old operating system that has been superseded but 2! newer versions and has entered extended support. I wouldn't expect apple to release the new version of safari on OS 9, I wouldn't expect Debian sarge to have the latest version of firefox back ported, why is IE9 any different?
Re:Microsoft (Score:4, Insightful)
This. Exactly. They are looking for every excuse they can to NOT put things on windows XP. What will happen though is that they will claim 'new features'...and 2 months down the line some hacker somewhere is going to find out that it's just a string or something somewhere that has to be changed in a DLL and Microsoft will be caught.
No. What part of "XP does not support hardware acceleration on it's desktop" do people not understand?
XP is an ancient OS. It cannot support new technology because it just simply cannot, to put it in layman's terms. The only way to make it support newer and newer stuff is if it was engineered in a way that any component can be removed and replaced (it wasn't) or do a complete rewrite.
Now if you're going to spend time on a rewrite, you might as well make a new OS because a complete re-write is a ton of work that will need to be compensated with money.
The fact that nobody has managed to somehow find any of these secret strings in a DLL in the 3 or so years that DirectX10 has been available would prove this. Yes, they may make some moves to entice people to upgrade - but there are seriously things that cannot be backported to XP, not even by Microsoft. The damn OS came out in 2001. Nobody would be running a Linux from that time on their desktop and nobody would be running a MacOS version from that year, either.
Firefox on Mac OS 10.3 (Score:5, Insightful)
When Apple drops support for not very old versions of the OS or hardwar, it's called brilliant marketing strategy. When MS does it, it's called abandoning compatibility
Re:So XP users will be stuck with IE8 forever.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Very few corporate intranets have mandated XP/IE8.
MS has the centralized deployment and management tools you must have in the corporate work-space.
Why still use XP? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:4, Insightful)
If they aren't public websites then they are of little concern to the rest of us. Firefox still works just fine for 99.9% of the Internet, not including little walled gardens like you are referring to.
Re:People need to stop bitching (Score:4, Insightful)
The fact that you say XP is their only stable operating system shows the fact that you are just an anti-MS zealot, or very not up to date on their OSes. Windows 7 is exceedingly stable, as is Vista. So long as you are running on stable hardware that has tested drivers, you aren't going to find any stability problems. Certainly not more than XP and probably even less.
If your metric for a stable OS really is number of service packs, then you are a fool who's got no business doing computer support. I rather suspect that's not the case, and you simply don't like MS.
Also this all misses the point that in no way is MS getting rid of XP. They are simply not bringing their latest browser, as of yet unreleased, to it. If that really is something you find to be a big deal, you've got extremely strange priorities, or a case of anti-MS zealotry.
Re:People need to stop bitching (Score:4, Insightful)
You're so full of it. 7 is rock-solid out of the box. I've been testing it since beta and we were ready to upgrade as soon as it hit the stores.
Windows 7 without any SP is faster and more secure than XP-SP3. But not even SP1 is good enough for you, you need SP2; why not SP4?
Tell me, make a list of issues that prevent your company from upgrading. I'll wait.
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes... on your part. The vendor is not Microsoft. The vendor is your financial partners. Microsoft is not imposing version checking. Microsoft has long provided alternative interfaces which negate the need for ActiveX controls. It is your financial partners who are refusing to support later browsers and alternate browsers. It is your financial partners, and not Microsoft, who control the gateways to the services that you want.
Thank your financial partners, not Microsoft. If those financial partners only provided service through the old CompuServe interface, you wouldn't be blaming CompuServe for failing to completely overhaul their service to be web and HTML based. If those financial partners only provided service by telegraph, you wouldn't be blaming Western Union for failing to upgrade your telegraphy machines on demand.
The machines that still run Windows in every office should still work. The machines are even security supported for four more years (assuming that they're on XP). If you're bitter that you can't replace them with the new shiny exactly in the manner that you want, then suck it up and blame your financial partners, not Microsoft. You're obviously no longer Microsoft's customer, so why should they solve your problem in a way that doesn't generate revenue rather than telling you to pound sand?
Re:Is this an incompatible carrot? (Score:4, Insightful)
Okay, so far, MSIE9 is technically an improvement, but not close enough to its competitors to be taken seriously.
It is a year away from being released, and not even in alpha yet. The only thing we have seen so far is a tech demo of the trident engine that didn't even have a full browser user interface. How can you be making any sort of judgement call about it is already?
Re:So XP users will be stuck with IE8 forever.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen many stupid things in my life but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So XP users will be stuck with IE8 forever.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, that should have read Windows 7 is gaining 5.11% market share each month.
Re:People need to stop bitching (Score:3, Insightful)
And if Microsoft were bundling lots of applications (third party or otherwise), people would be bitching that Microsoft doing so limits choice.
There is no winning for Microsoft here, clearly.
XP is almost 10 years old - they have to move on at some point.
I have a 2008 Nissan, but the 2010 has a better navigation system. Should I be insisting that Nissan upgrade my navigation software to match that of the newer model of my car? After all, it is software.
Thats really annoying (Score:4, Insightful)
IE is simply the best firefox downloader around.
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:3, Insightful)
Thank your financial partners, not Microsoft.
But this is precisely what Microsoft was trying to make happen. It did, and now you want to remove all blame from them? I don't think many of us would agree.
let XP go. (Score:2, Insightful)
I know what you're gonna say...there was nothing usable until Windows 7, that's why you're using an operating system that was released nearly 10 years ago.
Bullshit. There was Linux, OSX, and others. You've had plenty of options. Hanging on to that ancient crap, and expecting the vendor to still support it, is silly.
(just upset that he STILL can't use SNI because of idiotic XP users)
Yeah, Citi Bank (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course in their case it just that they are too stupid to breath.
Their site works fine with Linux and Firefox, but they deliberately refuse to work with anything but Windows and Mac. Spoofing the user agent string lets the site work perfectly with any OS and pretty much any browser. They tell me they do this for "security" but it doesn't actually work that way.
Yeah, a bit off topic. But, I posted this as an example of the hold MS has on the *minds* of their customers. I've gotten fairly high up into Citi banks IT folks by being polite and telling their customer service people that what they just told me doesn't make any sense. That it goes against the very mathematical basis of computer science that governs the way networks and computers work. And then demanding a valid explanation. You have say things like, "Yes, I understand that that is what you were told, and I know you are not lying to me. But, you have been lied to, and you don't have the technical training you would need to know that. Please put me through to someone who can answer my question or cancel my account." That works, especially if you are willing to try to explain what is really going on. So, after many hours I finally get to a guy who is so locked into the idea the MS is Lord and Linux is the Devil that even though he is very technical he can not think reasonably about my question.
I've had several similar experience in my life. Trying to explain to a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim that not believing in his God does not make you an Atheist is a lot like trying to explain to that guy why Linux is not evil.
Belief is not subject to rational discussion.
Stonewolf
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:4, Insightful)
While yes there are different licensing restrictions by Ubuntu box certainly does support DRM just like Windows 7. I'll grant its not nearly as widely support but who cares? Seriously? That tired argument needs to go away, the DRM in Windows gives it the ability to play DRM content and without DRM content it doesn't do anything. I have no idea where that bit of fud came from.
I also think there is a very tiny chance that you will ever see a site that says IE 9 only except in Intranet situations where corporations can specify which browser they want to standardize on. With web standards and HTML 5 most of the browser specific add-ons will not be required. As long as your browser is W3C compliant most of the web should be available to you in the coming years.
As for motivations in the FOSS world, that's mostly irrelevant when it comes to the mainstream distros. Most of them have non-free add-ons to make them useful. Ubuntu without Flash and mp3 support would be seriously lame. Same with Mandriva, Fedora, or any of the big guys. Oracle, SUSE, and Red Hat enterprise distros even require current support contracts to receive updates. Since they have to release the source you can always compile them yourself for free but unless you have staff dedicated to this task that is a huge waste of effort. Most people like to make money. Many understand that lock-in is a waste of effort although the strides Apple has made suggests otherwise. Even Microsoft is learning to play nice with others. My Windows and Linux servers have no trouble communicating. Hell, Ubuntu is my main desktop and it works fine even with Exchange.
Re:I've seen many stupid things in my life but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Repeat after me: "Anything one program can do, another program can do."
Before you go investing your faith in some web article about what's possible, try to get read up on the classics like Alan Turing's amazing body of work. Especially if you're going to go to a site like Slashdot and air out your ingnorance in front of the world.
Re:"hardware acceleration"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Hardware accelerated SVG, Video rendering, font smoothing, etc.
Why should your cpu do all the work when any modern system with a 5 or so year old video card can render it faster, with less power used, and better quality?
Some of IE's demos at mix showed them rendering an architectural drawing (where even the letters on the page for room numbers) are drawn using paths, paths can be hardware accelerated very easily, and then scaled to your resolution/zoom by dedicated hardware.
the html5 canvas crowd are also going nuts over the possibilities (games written without flash? yes please!)
Re:Thats ok , as an XP user (Score:4, Insightful)
How does the DRM affect you? It's merely there to enable/ you to play DRM'd files. It doesn't restrict you with anything. But if you have such files, it allows you to play them. How is that worse than Linux where you can't play them at all?
Re:Bye Bye XP (Score:1, Insightful)
Yep. XP's coffin has tons of nails in it. Unfortunately, XP isn't *in* the coffin. It's sitting on the lid saying, "Hey guys. You want to put more nails inside this box again? Sure. Let me hop off so you can open the lid."