If ET Calls, Who Speaks For Humanity? 371
EagleHasLanded writes "Who speaks for humankind if ET calls on us? Paul Davies, chairman of the SETI Post-Detection Taskgroup, is a likely ambassador. But Allen Tough founded the Invitation to ETI Web site, which encourages ET to make contact via email (and also strongly discourages humans from impersonating ET). But an individual in the UK got over some of the hurdles designed to weed out hoaxers, before finally throwing in the towel."
Just in case... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not exactly rigorous, but it gets the main points across.
ET Will Pick.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Just in case... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not exactly rigorous, but it gets the main points across.
It's a load of bunk. (Biggest bit: A knife fight today is the same as a knife fight 10,000 years ago. Technology advances, but only to physical limits. Oh, and not only does nobody remember the Indians that Columbus met, but most Native peoples don't date themselves as "Post-Columbian" and "Pre-Columbian.")
Anyway, if an alien shows up and decides to "make contact", they'll be in one of two situations.
1: They didn't plan it, and this is an emergency or an accident. Offer help if you can, but only if they accept it. Mostly, just stay the @#$ out of their way and try not to get killed. And for the love of god, don't kill them until they've killed one of us. (Yes, that probably means that "first contact bob" would be "first trophy bob." if they're here to hunt. Sucks to be bob.)
2; They did plan it, and made contact deliberately. It doesn't take more than a day to notice that the species creating buildings and machines and launching crap into space is sentient, and they'll learn a hell of a lot more about us by watching us for another day or two rather than picking one of us at random and watching us flail around. Greet them in your common habit and vernacular FIRST, and only resort to random flailings and scribbling on the floor if they don't respond.
Re:I do. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:ET Will Pick.. (Score:1, Interesting)
I was just thinking about this the other day.
If I was ET I'd pick a country with:
* Population not prone to panics or conspiracy theories, or conditioned hatred towards some other population. Middle east is out.
* Uncomplicated geopolitical position. Russia, the US, China, Pakistan etc are out.
* Good communications and a media that still believes in relaying information.
* Languages are secondary, but if a lot of people are multi lingual, that would probably help the info getting out without too much distortion.
So, that pretty much leaves Canada, some countries in Europe and Scandinavia, possibly Australia.
Re:Just in case... (Score:3, Interesting)
"Not exactly rigorous"... it doesn't withstand two seconds of critical thought.
The aliens will be quite used to things flailing like crazy and trying to get away... They know this is what non-self-aware organisms do.
Well, except plants -- those stand still. So standing still or moving tells them nothing.
The fact that you're still alive will mean they're going to allow us to exist.
Tell that to any barnyard animal. Maybe they're not hungry yet?
I mean, I'll agree that fighting is probably futile, but you never know. We don't know how to defend against a nuke, but we do actually know about enough to visit other planets, if we were willing to expend the resources and wait the insane amonut of time.
They won't speak your language, and won't be able to mess with your thoughts.
No good reason to believe either of these. As for speaking our language, they may well have been listening to radio and watching television for decades. Certainly, if they're smart enough to figure out weapons that will obliterate us, they're smart enough to build a machine to facilitate vocal speech -- I mean, we're almost there ourselves.
And it's a lot easier to attempt verbal communication at first, if it works. If that fails, you can always try writing, or anything else.
The aliens won't know who Pythagoras was, but they'll sure as shit know his theorem.
Maybe. You'd have to study a bit to find out what parts of math are actually relevant. Technically speaking, every computer program is a mathematical expression, and thus a universal truth, but that doesn't mean they'll have discovered Windows.
So maybe they'll know the Pythagorean Theorem, or maybe they'll have arrived at it (though still true) through an entirely different method.
Since the aliens will, let's face it, probably be major math nerds...
What? Humans are major math nerds, but not all humans. There's no particular reason to assume that the people heading their expedition know any math.
They won't know the name Darwin, but they'll be familiar with natural selection.
Eh, maybe. Leaving aside the possibility that the aliens might be Creationists, they might well be at the point where natural selection isn't a driving force, and hasn't been for centuries. Thus, you're again talking about the kind of thing only an alien nerd would know, and you might not be talking to nerds.
They'll know mathematical operators, but they won't know +, -, =, etc.
They also might not know our mathematical syntax. Consider stack calculators.
Draw something like the picture on the left...
Probably, though we're again back to how we communicate with them. They may not be visual at all.
The rest of this is mostly opinion, which I mostly disagree with.
Do not tell them the universe was created for us...
Oh, I agree, but you'll want to get more sophisticated than that if you can.
Get dropped off in a major city
Only if your communication sucks at that point. You don't need actual latitude and longitude to help direct them towards wherever you actually live.
Involve the local news
After you've had your shower.
No pop culture references.
If you don't make them, someone else will.
You'll probably be killed.... you'll be the most important human on Earth, and no matter what you do, you'll be extremely controversial.... There isn't much you can do about this one, sorry.
Again depends how good your communication is at that point. Also depends if you absolutely insisted on taking all the credit yourself.
For instance, remember how ridiculously advanced the alien t
Re:Just in case... (Score:4, Interesting)
Duncan Lunan from ASTRA [easynet.co.uk] wrote a couple of books on the subject in the early 1970s and basically fleshed out the possibilities you outlined, going through various permutations, including ones where we initiate contact, either inside our own solar system or outside. It was an interesting read but don't know if the books are accessible on the web yet.
Re:Just in case... (Score:3, Interesting)
And I totally agree that they'll know we're sentient, and odds are good they'll be able to have perfect translators pretty damn quickly once they've come into contact with our radio transmissions, if they're able to fly around the galaxy...
Re:Davies, ORLY? (Score:5, Interesting)
It is possible that our scientists could be mostly wrong about everything.
And pretty much every scientist out there agrees with you. It's the religious people who can't admit they're wrong, and that's the reason they shouldn't speak for us. Humility would indeed be the best practice.
He may be one of them... (Score:2, Interesting)
List of people who should NOT contact aliens (Score:3, Interesting)
Sheezus, if this were to be continued, we'd have millions of posts, all suggesting one extra person.
I'll try and shorten it. Here's a start, anyway:
List of people who should NOT be allowed to participate in First Contact:
Politicians
Actors
Reality show participants
Tom Cruise
Jack Thompson
Elvis (Yeah, he's dead, but that doesn't stop some people)
Astrologers (of any stripe)
Fundamentalists (of any stripe)
?To be continued?
Re:Davies, ORLY? (Score:3, Interesting)
nobody really knows how religion arose in the first place,
Well, yes and no. We have some good theories, and we've watched real religions arise fairly recently -- cargo cults being the obvious example.
The best thing we could do is present an unbiased synopsis of religion as it exists wrt humanity, and explain to them that we are all individuals and that we try to do our best in letting each and every one of us hold our own beliefs.
That's unfortunately only true for a minority of the world.
Atheists, at least so far, haven't started any wars.
The AC pointed out Stalin. There are two crucial issues here: First, no one goes to the war in the name of atheism, while they do in the name of religion. Second, the term "atheist" simply means one who is not a theist -- there is no unifying belief or dogma, no requirement that atheists be scientifically minded critical thinkers or even sane.
The numbers right now do tend to favor atheists in a few ways -- fewer in prisons, fewer divorces, etc -- but this isn't really relevant, other than to dispel the notion that atheists are inherently evil or stupid. You only need one person to be a counterexample to that, but it seems less useful to try to show that atheists are somehow better, more peaceful, smarter, etc.
Re:Davies, ORLY? (Score:1, Interesting)
How is denying the existence of a god a "worldview", any more than denying the existence of werewolves or vampires is? Does the concept of a "god" really run people's lives in this day and age? Sad...
Re:Just in case... (Score:3, Interesting)
Not only that, but the next aliens that come along may believe the exact opposite, so trying to custom-craft your reactions is a mistake no matter how you plan it.
Re:Just in case... (Score:4, Interesting)
3) They might be criminals, political refugees, or any other "undesirable" on the run, who see our remote backward world as a good hideout (this falls somewhere between "planned" and "seredipitous" at least for them). Maybe the scum of their species, maybe the oppressed. Maybe they'll think "Cool, suckers to exploit!" or bring down their version of the law on our heads for harbouring a fugitive.
Re:ET Will Pick.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Likely as that may seem there is always the possibility of some other scenario, such as that depicted in The Road Not Taken [wikipedia.org] where the aliens figure the humans are primitive and easily conquered only to discover that while humans may not yet have the tools for interstellar travel they are much more advanced in pretty much everything else, including warfare.
Ban Ki-moon (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Just in case... (Score:3, Interesting)
Strange magical physics don't even have to be in play; the aliens only have to believe that quality X is more important than intelligence (or that quality X denotes intelligence), and if we don't have it, then we're defacto non-intelligent.
John Varley wrote some novels with this as part of the back story. The aliens felt that there were only two types of intelligence: cetaceans and a kind living in gas giants. They kicked humans off earth and left them to live like rats on the moon and other inhospitable places. In The Ophichi Hotline [amazon.com] he even imagined us getting in contact with other species who had suffered the same fate.