Arizona Trialing System That Lets Utility System Control Home A/Cs 393
AzTechGuy writes "Arizona Public Service Co., Arizona's largest power company, is implementing a test program that would put customers' thermostats under their control to help balance power needs during critical peak usage times. APS will be able to remote control the customers' thermostats to control power draw from their A/C when there is a critical power transmission issue on the grid. Customers will be able to override these settings if they desire."
Only one problem I can see.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Your "peak periods" will correspond quite well with when it's 110 degrees in the shade... exactly when you want the AC the most.
Right... (Score:3, Insightful)
Because when it's 104 degrees in Arizona, the people trialing this system will be content to let the power company turn their A/C down.
No, what'll happen is that all the people enrolled will just override the suggested settings, meaning that they'll have spent the money and still end up having brownouts.
I don't see this as being a smart move from -any- standpoint, unless you marketed it as a way for the power company to turn down the A/C units of homeowners who might not -be- at home during a peak time, but have left their systems running.
Having said that, anyone with pets will tell you that it can get hot enough that they need to be cooled-off too.
Look.... (Score:4, Insightful)
It is the most basic of rights to be able to use what you pay for. In many cases, if you don't like what a company wants you to do, you have action, you can A) change to a competitor or B) go without it. If I don't like Sony's policies on firmware updates for the PS3, I can just as easily buy a 360, Wii, or even decide not to buy a game console. But when it comes to electricity, theres no other providers and its just about impossible to go without electricity in 2010 (even most Amish will have electricity in their outbuildings).
Re:Since customers can override the system.... (Score:5, Insightful)
What exactly are your enormous privacy concerns? This already exists here in toronto. This works well. The truth is, when they raise the temperature in your ac for a period of time, you don't notice it because the temperature change in your home is not instantaneous. By the time you notice the small change, if you do at all, it'll be back to your original setting.
The blurb makes it sound sinister IMo with stuff like "under their control". They're just trying to control the peaks so everyone has power.
Just build nuclear power plants already... (Score:5, Insightful)
It would create jobs... and energy...
Sounds like a GREAT FUCKING IDEA TO ME.
Re:Yawn, this technology has been around for 60 ye (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Maryland already has this (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Only one problem I can see.... (Score:3, Insightful)
It'll also be the middle of the day. For quite a large number of residential locations, the home will be empty. Doesn't matter if the house gets a bit warm while you're not there... If you're there, override it!
Don't cry monopoly. (Score:3, Insightful)
You CAN go off grid. If I lived Arizona, I'd totally slap a couple of solar panels on my roof and hook those up to the AC. Don't give me this whiny "oh, but they have a monooooooooopoly" tripe. It's only a monopoly if you're too lazy or cheap to use the alternative energy sources. Especially not in a prime solar location.
North American Grid (Score:4, Insightful)
Instead of trying to control individual ACs like this, they should be giving out massive credits to those who go to the expense of installing solar. Even where it won't pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time, installing solar panels will make a difference (probably not so much so in places like Seattle). I would imagine that if you could get 10% of the homes in the nation (even if you were just to do that in So Cal and Arizona and other perpetually sunny places) the relief on the grid would be enormous. With advances in solar cells, combining solar and hydrogen fuel storage/use [physorg.com], and other alternative energy technologies (wind, for example) there should be no problem in providing enough power.
The real problem is that the grid is ancient (relatively) and uses old, broken tech. Unfortunately the adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply when you are pushing outdated technology way past its limits.
Re:Just build nuclear power plants already... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Maryland already has this (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent is -1 Troll.
Smoothing out peaks in ways that minimally impact people is a great idea economically and environmentally.
Re:Maryland already has this (Score:3, Insightful)
"Don't allow the power companies to lower your power consumption (and the price you pay) when the system is on the verge of overload! Get higher capacity lines so we can burn more fossil fuels! Don't invest in renewable, just in methods to deliver more conventional power!"
I mean, I don't necessarily agree with the power companies being able to control your power like that; I'm just pointing out what your argument is in real terms.
I think I may, however, agree with a long-term override (aka opt-out) switch with this system, included in the current plan. I also may be inclined to agree with allowing for load-balancing (without them being able to change temperature) to reduce peaks and valleys.
Re:North American Grid (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Look.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Before you piss all over the idea, consider which you would prefer. You can either A) pay 2X as much for juice during peak time so the utility can afford to have enough peak capacity or B) let the utility come up with some creative ways to reduce peak demand, such as cutting the A/C for about 5 minutes every 30 if they need to. (I think that is austin energy's method) Further, Austin Energy does not require you to install their thermostat, they will give you a free one if you do want theirs.
Clearly, you prefer method A, but I happen to like B. And in case your wondering, Austin Enrgy has nearly the lowest rates in TX, is a monopoly, is run by the city whereas Dallas rates are around 2X higher as a minimum, they have choice, and the choices are not run by the city and are private. I'll stay in austin thanks. You can live in Dallas if you want with your precious choices.
Re:Air Conditioning (Score:3, Insightful)
They expect dynamic dot com era growth with anything tech they invested in.
Some US cities and areas did it right with community generators.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_cooperative [wikipedia.org]
Any profit is put back into hardware, running cost or users get some form of capital credits.
You also had Enron like profit pressure to milk demand on an old cold war grid.
Re:Since customers can override the system.... (Score:4, Insightful)
It does get sweltering hot here, but the problem is moreso the humidity than the actual temperature.
Re:Maryland already has this (Score:4, Insightful)
Which ISP is it, again, that lets you override download caps at will? I think that's an excellent idea-they can cap it, you say "override", no longer capped. There's also the fact that except during the highest peak periods, a lot of Net capacity remains unused, which is not true of energy.
This is probably for the morons who can't throttle back the A/C before leaving for work and wait 20 minutes for it to cool down after they get home. If it's just got to be cool when you walk in the door, get a programmable thermostat.
Re:Just build nuclear power plants already... (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, you've reached about 1955 in terms of nuclear powerstation technology.
In the past 55 years, there has been a lot of research into pebble bed reactors [wikipedia.org], for instance. Now, this research didn't happen in the US, of course, due to your hostility towards such technology.
The rest of the world is moving on to better sources of energy, while you fools are stuck in the Coal Age or the Oil Age.
Re:Only one problem I can see.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure there are all sorts of expensive, technical solutions to this problem
Insulation?
Caulking?
Listen to the gray hair on this. (Score:5, Insightful)
It'll be voluntary today.
It'll be mandatory tomorrow.
If they weren't planning on making it mandatory, they wouldn't do it in the first place.
Seen it a billion times.
Re:deja news (Score:1, Insightful)
At least it's voluntary... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Maryland already has this (Score:3, Insightful)
It's less funny when you happen to be subject to "some error of unknown source" (yeah, sure) that ensures that you only have COLD water from November to somewhere in February in northern Europe... brrr.
Re:Since customers can override the system.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe you should open the window?
People leaving Aircon on even when not at home (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Only one problem I can see.... (Score:2, Insightful)
I too live in an older house, built over a century ago that has these sorts of insulation problems. I have considered upgrading the insulation, there is just this little matter called MONEY. Upgrading to the point where it would save an estimated average of $50 per month would cost $15,000. Lets do a little math here, that is 300 months, or 25 years to pay back, much more than that if it involves loan payments.
You are from the UK, NOT US (Score:5, Insightful)
I know that as a UK resident you might believe you are part of the US but you are not... yet.
Anyway, there is a reason US citizens consume more then anyone else on this planet. It is a culture defined by entitlement. I can have the largest car, so I must have it and then I must use it.
I can have an airco, therefor everything must be airco'ed and it must run all the time.
An American really can't even deal with the notion that there might be something wrong with this attitude. Watch Mythbusters and their constant search for fuel efficiency in a 3 ton pickup with 1 person in it and no cargo. How about driving a smaller car? Oh, they do entire segments on how they get smashed between two trucks driving at top speed. No test of course if the results would be any different with a SUV (Answer: no, SUV's only share the fuel efficiency with tanks, not safety).
And the solution is terribly simple, pay more for your elec so that more power facilities can be built. But that is not an option either because all the profits go to shareholder, not into investments for the future.
It is an amusing system, you got Americans claiming they are the most advanced country, when large parts of the country regularly brown-out. California has had it for years, and no riots yet. When your electricity network is as reliable as one in Africa, maybe it is time to take a long hard look at the way you are running thing.
Don't worry, some American with mod points will remove this post to avoid to many Americans having to be upset by the truth.
Re:Only one problem I can see.... (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't relish the thought of spending $60k+ to do the upgrades right now, so there is an inexpensive window-AC installed to ride out the hot days.
These upgrade 'estimates' are completely ridiculous. First of all, it's not an all or nothing deal. I've worked on the houses I've owned, houses that are 40-70 years old. You can add r30 insulation to your attic for about $240 for 1500 sq/ft of attic space. It's not a task that requires a whole lot of skill and it makes a tremendous difference. You can put plastic over drafty windows, and there are many companies that will replace windows for about $200 each, installed.
On a 70 year old house, I tore out all the interior drywall and added insulation and upgraded electrical. That IS a daunting task, but you can probably do it about as cheap as remodeling a kitchen or bathroom. You also have the option of blowing in insulation which only requires small holes to be drilled in the wall.
Any BTW, there is nothing inexpensive about a window AC, except maybe the initial purchase price.
Out of all the efficiency upgrades I have done, the longest payback has been the bay window. But if I had put back in a window unit similar to what was there originally, it would have payed for itself in roughly 5 years. Just the difference in double pane over single pane leaky windows. I will admit though, I save more on heating (gas) costs that cooling(electrical).