Canada's Largest Cities Seeing the End of the Phone Book 206
innocent_white_lamb writes "Telephone directories are available on the Internet, and many phones even store their own directories. There is less and less demand for a printed phone book, so residential phone books will no longer be printed and delivered in Canada's seven largest cities. Do we now expect everyone's grandma to look up phone numbers on the Internet? Of course, the Yellow Pages, where businesses pay for a listing, will still be delivered."
Grandma's doesn't need to be yearly (Score:5, Interesting)
Why get rid of it completely? It doesn't need to be a "every year or never again" type of thing. Why not say you'll put out one new one every other year for a few years, then one new one every 5 years for a while?
That wouldn't be better (Score:5, Informative)
What they're doing now still lets grandma get one every year, she just has to ask for it. They're just not delivering on directly to everyone else's recycling box anymore.
Germany already has this (Score:5, Informative)
They're doing a similar kind of thing here in Germany for some years already, you only get a postcard telling you there's a new phonebook and yellowpages available and where to get it. If you want one, you can collect any number you need at the next post office, certain gas stations and in bigger cities at the central railroad station.
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The nice thing is that they put recycling bins right next to the new phone books. That way, you can get rid of the large-format books easily, as well.
Re:That wouldn't be better (Score:5, Funny)
I had to physically wrestle the phone book delivery guy to the ground and beat him senseless with my unwanted phonebook before he would take it back. I got a knock on my door from my neighbor the next morning saying they'd delivered two to his door. :shakes fist at phone book gods:
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But in all seriousness, my telephone provide (Shaw) here in Canada offers free 411. If my phone company decided NOT to provide me with a phone book AND STILL charged me for 411 calls I'm not sure I'd be happy. I'm guessing, however, that will be the norm - 411 calls are still chargeable with most phone providers here.
As it
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In Britain, I go to wap.thephonebook.com , type in who I am looking for, then tap on the resulting phone number to dial it. Much better than paying several pounds to someone in India who can barely speak English to try and find the number for me.
About time! (Score:2)
I've been complaining to them about this by email - I don't want your stupid phone book, or your yellow pages!!!
They go into the recycling bin, unopen.
Why should my municipality have to pay to recycle that crap?
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5 million trees are used to print the US phone book, the stuff costs a fortune and it has to go the way of the newspapers and dodos.
http://www.banthephonebook.org/ [banthephonebook.org]
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Add to the trees the additional transportation and delivery costs - those suckers are heavy!
There are people who have phoned the teleco and told them to come pick up their litter - and made them do it! Littering (and just dumping an unsolicited phone book on the door stoop IS littering) can get them a fine.
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It has nothing to do with whether you have a phone or not. When I lived in an apartment in Montreal they would drop one phone book per apartment on the floor next to the mailboxes where they would sit for months.
And they weren't counting land lines.. I got one when I had no phone line at all.
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Well maybe if they reduce the font size they don't need to waste that much paper
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Not sure if TFA mentions this but you can still request a printed copy of the phone book. It simply will not be automatically distributed. This change only affects larger metropolitan areas where the phone book is printed separately from the yellow pages. Smaller communities have yellow pages and white pages in the same book.
Misleading summary. (Score:5, Informative)
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From TFA...
Good luck with that though... big companies like this often outsource their call centers to places like India that use internet sites to locate you. And I've had issues with that and them just finding the completely wrong address (not to mention I now live on a really small street that just doesn't exist on a map...). Called Telus once to have my internet transfered to a new place and they said they'd send someone which they did... to an address a few blocks away... when I called up to complain about my int
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Some will instantly start yammering how it is "environmentalists" fault too.
Businesses are cutting delivery of everything that costs them money. Be it bank statements, or phone books. A phone book takes a few dollars to print and deliver. Why deliver phone books when that costs you 5% of your yearly profit from that customer?
Business directory will still be delivered because that's its *revenue model*. Businesses *pay* to be listed in these books. If they are not delivered to customers, then why would busin
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Not for long! i emailed them last year and told them that if they EVER deliver another yellow pages to my door, to contact the biggest advertisers and tell them why the Yellow Pages are useless, and why I won't be buying from them. Then I'll bug everyone I know to do the same. Maybe we'll
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The only thing I find the Yellow Pages good for anymore is pizza. When you're doing some late night hacking at the office, it's super easy to flip to the pizza section, find the information there with menus, prices, and delivery hours then call up the one you like. Yeah, I'm sure I could do that by using Google Maps and search nearby for pizza then scan the listings to find each individual website (if they have one) and locate the menu and so on, but what a hassle.
Re:Misleading summary. (Score:4, Funny)
Couldn't you just write a small script to parse through Google results and return valid options for delivery? I mean, what the hell exactly are you doing during these late night hacking sessions? Working?!
PS: If you get caught working on a pizza-delivery filter, just claim it's a "development tool". Technicalities are fun! ;)
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Re:Misleading summary. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wannabe. True hackers have their pizza place on speed-dial.
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I have a direct line, with red phones on either end.
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Something like
http://www.yell.com/ucs/UcsSearchAction.do?keywords=pizza&companyName=&location=Westminster&scrambleSeed=45793804&searchType=advance&M=&lastKeyword=pizza&lastClarifyIndex=&lastClarifyOptions=&lastSearchall=&lastSearchallTax=&lastbandedclarifyResults=&bandedclarifyResults=&ssm=1 [yell.com]
is your friend.
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My dad doesn't have a computer and doesn't want one, and I know people not much past middle age who won't have enything to do with a computer.
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The reply was to people who say "nobody needs a phone book and everybody has a computer".
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Then tell them to call up and have the fucking book delivered. Or would that knowledge be gleaned from having skimmed TFS?
It's a paradox. Without a phone book he won't know who to dial to get a new phone book. :)
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I don't use the online yellow pages. They're just as junky.
I use this thing called a search engine. There are hundreds of them out there - free.
And a yellow pge listing is no guarantee of it being legit. The lawyer who had the exterior back cover (color) and a two-page color spread for several years on a 4" thick phone directory is now on the lam for embezzlement.
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Your post raised the issue of legitimacy. People have traditionally ascribed more legitimacy to print than to on-line media. The online yellow pages gets a "halo effect" from the print version - it's part of how they sell it to advertisers.
Additionally, your original post fails in another respect - "Yellow Pages" is trademarked - if it's using the term "Yellow Pages", it's under license, so "figuring out which of the 1x10^3 online versions are legit" isn't that much of an issue.
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Same as here in Sweden.
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Belgium has an opt-out system. You can register on the site and then you won't receive any phone books anymore. (I just filled out the form, thanks to this article.)
I can't remember when I last used a full phone book: they're too large to find anything.
There is also a local business guide for each town. That one is small enough to be used, and it's useful whenever you need any service in your neighborhood (say, a plumber).
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We do ? *goes looking*
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Yeah and that is 8 cities not 7. Ottawa and Gatineau are separate since they are in two provinces. They may as well have said National Capital Region.
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I wonder... (Score:2)
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But directory will be exactly the same, just not in paper form.
Re: Same (Score:2)
It's not though.
I have seen some weird regional hybrid books with "selected" numbers. I can live with four complete phonebooks. Those "Selected" thingies are distracting.
But weren't the Telcos whining about 5 years ago "it's copyrighted"?
I'd LIKE a list in a parseable(sp?) format.
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The Portuguese "pages" don't offer an API, but they use Javascript as a templating language, so if you check the html, there's a nice JSON list with the results, all with nice tags.
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Not only that, but increasingly you get crap results on the order of "FIND FIVE STAR HOTELS IN PODUNKVILLE" (population 12) -- the latest form of linkfarm, it seems.
I'd seen so much of this crap that I actually did not believe it when a motel listing came up for a town with a current population of (count them) 7 people... turns out for once it's real.
As to the "store locators" on chains' sites, about half the time they won't even speak to you if you ask for listings outside your immediate zipcode. Just gimm
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I keep my phone book in my car where it's actually useful.
It seems the trend is more general (Score:3, Informative)
BTW the directories in Indian cities were distributed only by the Monopoly telecom BSNL and its Big cities cousin MTNL. With rise of private players in wired as well as the exploded mobile segment in India, the directories were not much of the use anyway. This just puts the death nail in them.
I used to get obnoxious quantities of phone books. (Score:5, Informative)
At my last rent house local telco's were in competition with each other to have the "defacto" phone book. When stacked together the phone books I got in a 1 year period were 2 ft tall. The phone companies kept trying to 1 up each other. I never actually used one of them - except one of them had a nice local map tucked in the front. I pulled it out, circled where I lived for someone who was going to visit later and handed it over.
Why should I have to pay for trash pickup if they do free trash delivery?
4 or so, so far this year. (Score:2)
I have "naked DSL" with no dialtone at my house, so of course I get:
1. The telephone company's official phone book (which isn't actually produced by the telephone company, and hasn't been for years, and is so full of errors that the telephone company is forced to send a letter-to-the-editor of the local paper explaining that it's not their fault)
2. The paperback-sized one that's just for my side of the county, also from the telephone company.
3. Some unofficial book from some other publisher
4. Another copy o
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I tried to get "naked DSL" there. Verizon claimed repeatedly I wasn't in a DSL coverage area, despite my land lady having access at that house before she moved out. I finally ordered a phone line, then about a month later asked for DSL. What do you know! I was in a DSL area! Of course every time it rained the DSL went up and down for about a day - then Hurricane Ike hit. That was the end of that.
Grandma's Future (Score:2, Interesting)
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Get Grandma an iPad with a white pages app. That way she'll thank you for not being a cheap fuck trying to pawn off your 3rd rate, 10 year old massive desktop computer with a 50 ton CRT she can't hope to move without a crane on her while indoctrinating her in the ways of Linux as if she cared or understood and she might actually leave you in her will.
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And stick grandma with the new third world AT&T data plans? I love my grandma you insensitive clod.
Problems with iPad for Grandma (Score:2)
1. Grandma doesn't have WiFi (or any internet) at home
2. Grandma doesn't want to pay ATT 3G when she already pays for her olde landline.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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She could also call the operator for information, which predated print phone books.
This avoids diggin' under the pile of Depends for the phone book. (I'm old, so I can crack on old fuckers. They'll get over it.)
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Re:Grandma's Future (Score:4, Funny)
My grandparents are all dead. So what now?
Look up your local necromancer in the Yellow Pages?
The next week... (Score:2)
I don't know about you guys, (Score:2)
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Agreed those city sized directories make no sense. In small towns of 50k pop or less there is still a use for phone books.
Futon Support (Score:2, Funny)
All that wasted paper (Score:2)
I only see the "phonebook" sized directories used to prop open doors or as monitor stands.
OTOH the "paperback" sized directories are useful for carrying in cars or keeping on a handy shelf.
The new phone book's here! (Score:5, Funny)
Dang. I'm gonna miss this annual event:
Navin R. Johnson: The new phone book's here! The new phone book's here!
Harry Hartounian: Boy, I wish I could get that excited about nothing.
Navin R. Johnson: Nothing? Are you kidding? Page 73 - Johnson, Navin R.! I'm somebody now! Millions of people look at this book everyday! This is the kind of spontaneous publicity - your name in print - that makes people. I'm in print! Things are going to start happening to me now.
[the Sniper points to Navin's name in the phone book]
Sniper: Johnson, Navin R... sounds like a typical bastard.
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Navin R. Johnson: Nothing? Are you kidding? Page 73 - Johnson, Navin R.! I'm somebody now! Millions of people look at this book everyday! This is the kind of spontaneous publicity - your name in print - that makes people. I'm in print! Things are going to start happening to me now.
Of course, just see how things picked up for all the people with "Connor, J." in the book.
California tried this but the telco's blocked it (Score:2, Informative)
Ring Ring... Pick up the clue phone (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course not, they expect them to call 411 and find out the number for $1.45 per request, rather than look it up in the phone book for free. It's what the pointy-haired phone company execs would call "monetizing informational resources". Yeah, there are free 411 services like Google's but many people don't even realize these services exist.
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Wow, what a quandary. Let's see. I'm the guy in charge of the company that's going to print a Yellow Pages and send it to every house. I've decided to no longer send a White Pages to every house, but I want people to be able to contact me to ask for one.
What to do?
Um... I could... maybe print the number on the front of the Yellow Pages?
Just a thought.
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Do we now expect everyone's grandma to look up phone numbers on the Internet?
Of course not, they expect them to call 411 and find out the number for $1.45 per request, rather than look it up in the phone book for free. It's what the pointy-haired phone company execs would call "monetizing informational resources". Yeah, there are free 411 services like Google's but many people don't even realize these services exist.
But, of course, to make up for that, the phone companies will now pass the savings from eliminating the phone book on to the customer through lowered rates!
I mean, if they were introducing a phone book, they'd pass the cost on to us. Obviously they're going to pass the savings on to us as well. Right?
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Not everyone out there is a complete cold-hearted dick when it comes to their elders
Especially when there's a chance one might be remembered in their will.
For that matter (Score:2)
Since I usually use the back door, and the front door is for taking out the trash, the last Yellow Pages I got never made it out of its plastic.
By all means, print a few white pages and give grandma the comfort on request but I've been wondering about this for years.
My Grandma Doesn't Use The Phone Book (Score:2)
I've wondered the same thing (Score:2)
For a long time I've been wondering "why do we need phone books?". Other than occasionally looking up the number of a business in the Yellow Pages, I have never used the phone book to find somebody's phone number (and I'm probably a lot older than the average Slashdot reader). I already know the phone numbers of my friends and relatives, so why do I need the numbers of a hundred thousand strangers? Then there's people with unlisted phone numbers and cell phones, none of which are listed in any phone book.
landlines only (Score:2)
This is a very good step!! Phonebooks are useless already because they don't contain cellphone numbers. Not that I would suggest that those should be included.
And grandma anyway can't find her reading glasses.... :-)
Cellphone numbers *should* be in the directory (Score:2)
Online entries aren't up to date (Score:2)
This would be fine and all, except there's no real online equivalent. Canada411.com is supposed to be the same thing, but it's got nowhere near the same listings as the printed phone book does.
So in this case, it's not really just a change in how it's delivered. It's degradation of the quality of the available information.
Until they fix that, I'll need to keep requesting the dead tree version. (Not to mention that version also works during a blackout when I need to call the power company and tell them there
Re:People still use land lines? (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly. Cell phone numbers often aren't listed in phone directories. To make matters worse, many people frequently change cell phone numbers, especially those with pre-paid phones; when the service expires so does the phone number (even if it was "ported", which comes as a nasty surprise for some).
Ron
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It costs money to receive a cell call. If I want you to have my phone number, I'll give it to you.
I think published directories should be an opt-in service.
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It costs money to receive a cell call
Only in the USA. Pretty much everywhere else in the world, it costs money to make a call, doesn't to receive it. Mobile phone numbers have their own prefix (rather than a geographic one, which doesn't make sense for a phone that can work anywhere in the world), so you know that it will be billed as a call to a mobile, rather than a call to a landline.
Most mobile phone companies charge the same amount for calls to mobiles as for calls to landlines, and make calls to their own network cheaper than calls
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It costs money to receive a cell call. If I want you to have my phone number, I'll give it to you.
Do you pay to receive you mail as well, I thought that went out in the 1800's
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Luckily, USA telcos aren't in charge of the snail mail, or we WOULD be charged for incoming. :P
Re:People still use land lines? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm over 50, and the damned phone books haven't been much use for several years anyway. When Ma Bell and AT&T were the only people who published phone books, I could navigate them quickly and easily. Then half a dozen different companies started publishing them, all in slightly different formats. Then, a separate book for the yellow pages became the norm, meaning I had to keep up with yet another phone book. Then, each publisher decided that I really wanted to see a different set of cities listed in my directory, "helpfully" eliminating listings from cities or towns that routinely did business in.
I have relied on online directories for at least 5 years now, because the physical phone book is worthless!
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Uh, to look up the name of a local business you know that you want to call for an inquiry but don't know their number? There's also nothing 'stalker-like' about looking up the number of a person you probably have not met, like for returning their lost property (wallet or whatever) or runaway pets to them or many other scenarios like this. There'd
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Also landlines will always work in case of power outage
No they won't. When tornados tore through my neighborhood in 2006, [slashdot.org] landlines didn't work for weeks (my power was out for a week), but my cell phone never stopped working. I charged it up at my office, and they do make chargers that will plug into your car's 12 volt supply.
are cheaper
Not for me; almost all my family is a long distance call away. I pay $50 per month for my cell, it would be at least triple that with a landline. As it is, I can call my mo
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Everyone's grandma is knowledgeable enough to be asked when it comes to internet legislation. Want to introduce new sorts of internet censorship? New data retention laws? Do a poll in some home for old people. Result? 90% 'of course we need to regulate the evil internet'.
Ugh. Do you really think like this? Please get out and talk to people, even old people. It'll do you good. They're like us except they've been around longer. Seriously, your post is probably the most disturbing thing I've ever read on Slashdot. If it was a troll then well done but if not then ugh.
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...up phone numbers on the Internet?
Of course. Everyone's grandma is knowledgeable enough to be asked when it comes to internet legislation. Want to introduce new sorts of internet censorship? New data retention laws? Do a poll in some home for old people. Result? 90% 'of course we need to regulate the evil internet'.
So I expect everyone's grandma to be able to look up numbers on the internet.
Okay, even if we didn't bother to read the fine article and find out that anyone who wants one can simply request one...
Ask yourself how often septuagenarians and up need to look up new numbers. Their friends and family are either static or capable of telling Grandma when their numbers change. A little cheat-sheet beside the phone suffices nicely. The commercial Yellow pages are still being printed and delivered as they're paid for by advertisement. Even if that wasn't the case, again, how often does s
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Why do we act like grandma's are so stupid?
Really, with the way this summary reads, do we even believe grandma could read the phonebook?
What is easier: 1) typing someones name and having the results appear right away, or 2) flipping through the thousands of pages until you get to the right letter?
Older people and smudgy printing (Score:2)
For grandma, the printed books are useless - she needs a magnifying glass to RTSFP (Read The Smudgy Fine Print).
We're all getting older.
Which is more effective?
12 advantages of the Internet over the Yellow Pages
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12 Disadvantages of an Internet connected PC over a Traditional Phone Book for your Grandma:
1. The phone book doesn't require power.
a. This has other advantages beyond the obvious "save the electricity bill". Nobody in history has ever tripped over the phone book's power cable.
2. The phone book can't crash.
3. It's vanishingly unlikely that the normal, day-to-day use of the phone book will result in some scrote in Russia gaining access to her phone book. And even if it did, the only infor
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If you can find a phone anywhere that doesn't have at least a wap browser, please send me a link.
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I'll do better than that, I'll show you an entire range of them and a company that sells little else:
http://www.matobshop.co.uk/ [matobshop.co.uk]
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Then offer a download of the directory, so paranoid users like you (nothing wrong with that - I just wouldn't bother) can download a copy for those emergencies.
Ok, so the power might be gone or your computer is crashed - but should we really waste a whole lot of paper, ink and money on printing information that is 99.9% useless to most people? Just go to your neighbour/whoever and get help there.
Maybe we can even keep a dead-tree version at the local library or something like that. But don't send me your st
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They also come in handy when you need to change the light bulb in that high fixture. Grandmas tend to be a bit short.
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If you can't get a signal, you're mot going to be making a phone call, are you?
Oh wait - you're great-grandma - stuck in the time of land lines.
I didn't know you were still alive - I hope you're not too pissed off that we buried you years ago. Maybe you can use the Yellow Pages to order a pizza while we decide if we want to dig you up.
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Because we all have them and know their technical capabilities. Grandmas have enough trouble using the phone, let alone handling tasks like left click and right click, understanding a web browser, the internet etc.
I've met some older women have no trouble with any of these things. I haven't met an 80yr old power user yet but I've met 70 yr olds who can browse alongside their grandchildren. Sadly, in the real world this is the exception and not the norm.
It isn't really about intellect. The elderly are afraid
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Most people don't have their computers running 24/7, and it takes a minute to boot up. I can find a number in a phone book far faster than I can boot a computer and look it up there.
And if you're looking at every page in the book, you have other problems as well. Of course, your misuse of the apostrophe in two instances (using it for a plural but not with a possessive) suggests to me that you may not have much experience with physical books, which may possibly be the problem here.
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No, for the FEW they need they can fucking call Information.
BTW if they are too old to use a PC they probably can't read the phone book.
I'm old, I adapted, so can they.
It's cruel not to wean people, and if you don't, more people latch onto the same teat.
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"(Actually true about the lady in the phone and my Gran, I won't even try to explain about her and ATMs)"
Either that or you are gullible and she likes to fuck with you.
I've known quite a few older people. They all play the old card and pretend to forget things or that they don't know how to do things to get other to do them. If they don't like the current conversation they will inject a whole new conversation or pretend they can't hear and people dismiss it as senile old grandma.
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Call the phone company and request 5-10 of them, so you have spares just in case.