Cheap ADSL Holds Up 802.11n Router Design 268
Posted
by
kdawson
from the wouldn't-mind-an-isp-price-plunge dept.
from the wouldn't-mind-an-isp-price-plunge dept.
sholto writes "Ever wondered why you can't find the perfect 802.11n router? You know, the one with dual band, great range, USB print server and storage? Australian ISPs used to give away modem routers to consumers with expensive ADSL plans, but competition has forced them to drop the plans' prices so low they can't subsidize the boxes any more. D-Link Australia says R&D into N routers is now becalmed in a Catch-22."
Time Capsule (Score:3, Informative)
the perfect 802.11n router? You know, the one with dual band, great range, USB print server and storage?
It's called the Time Capsule. I own one, and it offers all that. What, exactly, was the question?
(oh yeah, maybe you don't like Apple for whatever reason. That's not the point. The point is that such a device does indeed exist, contrary to the claims of the author that it doesn't.)
What you describe exists. (Score:1, Informative)
"You know, the one with dual band, great range, USB print server and storage?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_Extreme#AirPort_Extreme_Base_Station
Dual band? Check.
Great range? Check (covers my house).
USB Print and storage? Check.
You're welcome.
AirPort Extreme (Score:3, Informative)
It's a little bit expensive at ~ $200, but you get what you pay for. It has great features for the price and is rock solid. Dual-band 802.11N, Gigabit Ethernet, IPv6, SNMP, bridging and routing modes, etc, etc. The only drawback is the proprietary GUI required to configure it (no web interface). This is a show stopper it if you do not have a Windows or OS X based computer at your disposal, but few people are in that situation.
The only reason to pass it up is if you're one of those weirdoes that immediately write off anything with an Apple logo.
Beyond a few rare anomalies, every other consumer router I've used in nearly a decade has been complete garbage, I'd sooner build a PC based Linux or BSD gateway over dealing with that nonsense.
Re:Its the ISPs fault? (Score:5, Informative)
Five gigabyte ethernet ports, one USB2 for printing or network storage or both (you can connect a hub to it), dual band, WPA2, WDS, etc., etc.
Re:Time Capsule (Score:4, Informative)
If only it had built in ADSL it'd be the real deal. But as it is, I'm back up to having two boxes. I'm not saying that's a total deal breaker, but it certainly means it's not perfect. Belkin do models that cover all of this assuming you don't mind external USB storage. Also, Time Capsule 2Tb is £388.00 from the UK Apple store. Oucheroo. You'd be under £250 if you bought the top Belkin model and a 2Tb USB disk.
Re:AirPort Extreme (Score:3, Informative)
No UPNP, not for me. Otherwise it is perfect.
Re:DO NOT WANT: print server, storage, P2P daemon, (Score:5, Informative)
Not in Australia there isn't. There's ADSL, and there's only one single ADSL standard (well, two if you consider ADSL/ADSL2+). and there's Cable. (and dialup modems/satellite if you want to be picky, and lets face it, who doesn't!). No one's really investing in cable anymore, since the infrastructure for ADSL already exists, and just requires exchange upgrades and back-haul upgrades, instead of in-street wiring of cable and back-haul upgrades.
That's several million homes in Australia who all get an adsl modem from their ISP, and if the isp recommends a wireless router/adsl modem, then they're pushing a path that allows them to invest in R&D on newer features. They all still offer the simple ADSL modem, but there's plenty of room for people with multiple computers (something a large fraction if not the majority of australian households now have) to warrant the availability and simplicity of a modem/router pre-configured by the ISP to just work when you plug it in.
Re:AirPort Extreme (Score:3, Informative)
Nice to know that it works in WINE, nice option for people that are exclusively running Linux. I use Macs primarily for my desktop machines, so for me it has never been an issue.
I have mine in bridge mode as well (behind a FreeBSD gateway) but I've set it up as a full out NAT router for many other people.
Uptime is certainly great:
lilpapa:~ denis$ snmpget -v 2c -c *REDACTED* airport DISMAN-EVENT-MIB::sysUpTimeInstance
DISMAN-EVENT-MIB::sysUpTimeInstance = Timeticks: (709918432) 82 days, 3:59:44.32
I'm sure if I investigated I'd figure out I either had a power outage or updated my config 82 days ago? ;)
Having worked in for several large scale WISPs for the last 8 years, I know I'm getting sick of the "My internet is broken" - "Power cycle your damn router" dialogue I hear over and over again on a daily basis. What's the uptime on a Linksys before a reboot is required nowadays, an hour or two?
Re:DO NOT WANT: print server, storage, P2P daemon, (Score:5, Informative)
The odd thing is, I already have the router that both you, and the article describe...
It has:
Simultaneous dual band
Ability to broadcast a guest network as well as my secured ones 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz ones
Gigabit ethernet switch
Range good enough to get from one corner of my house to the other far corner, and probably more.
USB print server
Ability to add storage
Ability to act as a backup server
Doesn't overhead
Hasn't crashed since it started running several months ago
Hasn't ever dropped a connection
Hasn't ever had compatibility issues with random 3rd party hardware/software
What is it? Oddly... it's an Airport Extreme [apple.com]
Re:Time Capsule (Score:3, Informative)
I have an Airport Extreme (time capsule without the disk) and must say that I'm pleased. I shopped around for this feature set and could only easily find a Belkin unit with the same features, but that was more expensive than the Apple unit.
Setup is a no brainer, and it works as advertised. Only one USB port, though, which means that I have a USB hub to connect two external drives and one printer. Annoying, but not a deal breaker for me.
I also have fiber right to my home so I don't need no steenkin' ADSL functionality so I get to use just one box.
Re:DO NOT WANT: print server, storage, P2P daemon, (Score:3, Informative)
Plug in a modem.
Shocking news! (Score:3, Informative)
Carriers are forced to lower margins, can't cross-finance as much.
For everyone who can't calculate it themselves: It's pretty much always better for the customer to buy stuff and pay lower monthly fees instead of the other way round. Large one-time costs are better than medium long-term costs.
That being said, just get a Fritz! Box 7390 and be done with it.
2 * POTS
1 * ISDN with optional pass-through to a proper telco appliance
6 * DECT handsets
2 * USB; the mass storage can be exposed via SMB & UPNP-AV/DLNA
4 * Gigabit Ethernet
802.11 bgn
IPv6
And a ton of other features. Plus, you can install freetz!, a free modifcation of the Linux that runs on the Fritz! boxes.
PS: I am aware of how bank credits work, but I am talking utility costs, not buying a house, here.
Re:DO NOT WANT: print server, storage, P2P daemon, (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, in my new house design I actually have a comm closet - wouldn't necessarily put the wireless router in there, but I sure as heck would put the cable/DSL modem in there and use an ethernet run to any wireless routers. Hmmm... at that point might as well use POE and those thin wireless APs. But that's a commercial solution and a LOT more expensive than a consumer integrated unit.
You can roll your own PoE, just run half-duplex connections to your kit (1/2 and 3/6 pairs, IIRC) and use the other wires in the bundle to carry power. Don't make the mistake of trying to run AC power down the line, most anything like that which runs on AC will also run on DC, although it usually only works with one tip polarity because such small crap devices often have half-wave rectifiers. A couple jacks and wall plates will cost you $10 at the home despot. Do yourself a favor and get odd-colored jacks to denote half duplex. If you just install some other kind of power jack in the wall (buy jacks and plugs at radio shack) for the power to come out of, you can't even harm a device by plugging it in.
I get internet access from a local WISP. They installed a bridge/AP in a metal box on the antenna mast. The PoE injector is in my living room closet along with my primary AP/router. (WRT54G with DD-WRT.) Then I have a cable run to the entertainment system hooked up to another AP, as well as to the Xbox (about to be removed as it has died), Xbox 360, Wii, and a PC. This is the AP that I hammer when I want to transfer files, so that my lady can still get access. I don't know if it's a problem with 802.11G or a problem with DD-WRT but if I have a file transfer going I get dropouts, and my two APs are on different channels with no others visible in the area since I live in the boonies.
Re:AirPort Extreme (Score:4, Informative)
You're the second to whom I will now reply Apple doesn't sell a product with a built in ADSL2 modem, which incidentally makes your lovely product recommendation completely off topic.
In all fairness, for those of us not familiar with the Aussie broadband market, there was virtually no way to know that only ADSL modem-routers are under discussion, at least from reading the summary. It asks:
Ever wondered why you can't find the perfect 802.11n router?
It then lists off a handful of features, conspicuously missing the "is also an ADSL modem" feature. My assumption based on the summary was that previously, knowing the Aussie ISP(s?) would subsidize large numbers of modem-routers provided a virtually guaranteed market, and so it was less risky for router manufacturers to invest in R&D for modem-routers (which would then allow them to cheaply cross over into the normal router market simply by removing the ADSL modem functionality). Nothing in the summary contradicts this; in fact, except for the parenthetical, it is a paraphrase of the 3rd sentence of the summary, the only one which mentions ADSL modem-routers.
In short, these comments are not off-topic to the summary. The fact that they are presumably off-topic to the article is largely the fault of the summary, not the comment poster, unless you want to blame them for not RTFA (good luck with that, by the way!).
Re:I no longer trust D-LINK (Score:2, Informative)
SonicWALL is good. Their products are aimed for the small, medium, and large business through. So expect to pay a lot more. But I would recommend them for home use if you can afford it.
Their TZ 100 Wireless-N lists for $360 on CDW. The TZ 100 Wireless-N with 1 Year Total Secure lists for $410. 1 Year warranty is extra I think.