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Leaked MS Presentation Shows App Store Plans For Windows 8 339

Posted by Soulskill
from the hopping-on-the-bandwagon dept.
FrankNFurter sends word of an internal Microsoft presentation leaked online today that contains details about Windows 8. The slides mention support for 3-D displays, connectivity upgrades, rapid startup times, and an integrated application store. Quoting Neowin: "Consumers will be able to search on the web or locally on a Windows 8 machine to access applications from the store. Microsoft also details plans for application developers to help reach millions of users. One of the goals is to ensure licensing and monetization for developers is flexible with a transparent on-boarding process. It's clear that the 'Windows Store' will be a software service Microsoft provides and hosts fully in the cloud. The company will likely build the distribution model on Windows Azure to lure application developers."
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Leaked MS Presentation Shows App Store Plans For Windows 8

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  • by Space cowboy (13680) * on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:49PM (#32721262) Journal
    Everyone is up-in-arms over the bizarre prediction [slashdot.org] by some third-party developers [arstechnica.com] that Apple will move to an app-store model on OSX (and all the haters pre-condemn them for this "fact" despite Jobs refuting it [macstories.net]), and then it's Microsoft that comes out and proposes to do it.

    Question: Since Apple was labelled "the new Microsoft" due to its supposed policies, does this make Microsoft - um - the new Microsoft, again ? [grin]

    Simon
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by binarylarry (1338699)

      It's worse with Microsoft.

      They have a monopoly on the Operating System market. This will give them a defacto stranglehold on the entire Windows software market.

      "Gee Mr Coder, you appear to have a Linux version.... we don't like these kinds of apps in our store."

      "Gee Mr Coder, this appears to be an office suite.. we don't like competitors in our store."

      • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:55PM (#32721372)

        "Gee Mr Coder, you appear to have a Linux version.... we don't like these kinds of apps in our store."

        "Gee Mr Coder, this appears to be an office suite.. we don't like competitors in our store."

        Isn't that the EXACT same thing Apple is doing with their App Store?

        • by seanonymous (964897) on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:58PM (#32721432)
          Yes, but Apple's products are shiny.
          • And they go to 11!

          • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

            Yes, but Apple's products are shiny.

            I just had a terrible thought that involved a hair salon selling shiny "product" to a bunch of metro fanbois... *shudder*

          • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

            by Keebler71 (520908)
            Obligatory [theonion.com]
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by abigor (540274)

          The Apple app store is limited to the i-devices. The parent to your post specifically mentioned "the entire Windows software market".

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by BasilBrush (643681)

          Isn't that the EXACT same thing Apple is doing with their App Store?

          Yes, except for the bit you left out of your copy'n'paste. Apple don't have a monopoly or even near monopoly of the smartphone OS market.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by jedidiah (1196)

            > Yes, except for the bit you left out of your copy'n'paste. Apple don't have a monopoly
            > or even near monopoly of the smartphone OS market.

            It really depends on which fanboy you ask and when.

        • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Informative)

          by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:07PM (#32721618)

          Isn't that the EXACT same thing Apple is doing with their App Store?

          No. Apple does not refuse to carry apps from developers that have versions for other platforms. And even if they did, it would still be different because Apple is only one player in a competitive market. Don't like Apple's methods, but a Blackberry or an Android and you can still have a huge selection of apps. Apple doing this would be like Dell or Toshiba doing it. If you can't grasp the difference between a monopolist leveraging their monopoly into another market versus a non-monopolist bundling products, well you haven't been paying attention here or you willfully refuse to understand.

          All that said, it's pure speculation that MS would make such draconian restrictions upon their application store.

        • Re:Just hilarious (Score:4, Informative)

          by spire3661 (1038968) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:07PM (#32721630) Journal
          Same thing, entirely different circumstances. Monopoly is not illegal, ABUSE of monopoly is. Appstore = 100% of iApp market, but not anywhere near a monopoly level of the smartphone app market as a whole. Microsoft censoring competing products in its store = abuse of monopoly, Apple censoring competing products in its store= fair market practice.
      • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)

        by rolfwind (528248) on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:57PM (#32721404)

        On the upside, it's not really different than what Ubuntu does with software repositories... except that they'll presumably be charging for it. And it would be one way for an administrator to allow people to download software while being reasonably assured they're not going to install malware by accident. I would hope.

        As long as Microsoft doesn't block installs from outside the store, I don't see a problem.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by FrYGuY101 (770432)

          And it would be one way for an administrator to allow people to download software while being reasonably assured they're not going to install malware by accident. I would hope.

          Check out AppLocker.

          It allows you to vet certain programs and allow them to be installed, including updates and future versions, without granting the user account full rights to install.

          Or you can publish MSIs to the network and allow your users to install programs from the "Add Programs" menu.

        • On the upside, it's not really different than what Ubuntu does with software repositories... except that they'll presumably be charging for it.

          Ubuntu is moving to the same model anyway, with the next version of the package manager supposedly incorporating a commercial app store.

          As long as Microsoft doesn't block installs from outside the store, I don't see a problem.

          Technically, to be in compliance with the law, MS would have to play on even ground and offer their store as separate download while at the same time publishing the APIs so other apps stores can have the same access to the OS as MS's store. If it comes pre-bundled most people will end up using it and most developers will have to target it, regardless of the quality of the s

      • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Informative)

        by Admodieus (918728) <john@@@misczak...net> on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:06PM (#32721590)
        The difference here is that you can still install applications from outside the app store on Windows (and Android for that matter), where on iOS you can't. That's why everyone was worried about the next version of OS X moving to a more iOS-focused paradigm; Apple has final cut on everything.
      • by jsnipy (913480)
        I think the term "monopoly" is no longer applicable. There are plenty of OS choices today. Doesn't Apple make an OS?
      • This will give them a defacto stranglehold on the entire Windows software market.

        Not if their market is open, similar to the Linux package repository model.

        That argument also completely ignores the fact that there are zero restrictions about what software you are allowed to install on Windows. Do you think that Microsoft is going to move to a model where the only way to install software on Windows is through their market?

        "Gee Mr Coder, you appear to have a Linux version.... we don't like these kinds of apps in our store."

        No problem, I'll just host it on my web site where anyone can download and install it.

        "Gee Mr Coder, this appears to be an office suite.. we don't like competitors in our store."

        No problem, I'll just host it on my web site where anyone can download and instal

    • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:52PM (#32721320)

      Everyone is up-in-arms over the bizarre prediction [slashdot.org] by some third-party developers [arstechnica.com] that Apple will move to an app-store model on OSX (and all the haters pre-condemn them for this "fact" despite Jobs refuting it [macstories.net]), and then it's Microsoft that comes out and proposes to do it.

      Adding a central repository of applications is no more "The App Store Model" than Ubuntu's central repository of applications. It's only "The App Store Model" if that becomes the ONLY way of putting applications on your device.

    • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jedidiah (1196) on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:55PM (#32721370) Homepage

      The problem with Apple is that we have already seen what their vision of an app store is: A Garden of Pure Ideology.

      It doesn't have to be that way. It can merely be apt-get with a fancier interface and a means to pay for stuff.

      Microsoft could abuse this idea. However, Apple is already abusing this idea.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I have little doubt that Microsoft wants to embrace the idea of having the final say over everything that gets installed. However, there is absolutely no way they would be allowed to do this. Either by the consumers who'd want to install software that doesn't have their blessing, or by the DOJ looking for funding...I mean monopolies.
      • The end user may not agree.

        I'm not sure I would hate having a central repository for all Macintosh applications (as long as freeware was still free, as with the Apple Store).

        It sure would simplify things (trusted, signed source)... again, from an end user's perspective.

        I'm sure every software programmer (minus Apple) would disagree.

      • The problem with Apple is that we have already seen what their vision of an app store is: A Garden of Pure Ideology.

        It doesn't have to be that way. It can merely be apt-get with a fancier interface and a means to pay for stuff.

        Microsoft could abuse this idea. However, Apple is already abusing this idea.

        This all presumes that Microsoft's latest "leak" isnt vaporware still, all in order to slow migration away from Windows Mobile. It would be far from the first time that MS announced a non-product to slow down any exodus from their products. Heck, a look at the announced (and not included or completed) features for Vista may give you an idea of exactly what this tactic may truly be.

    • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Dan East (318230) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:01PM (#32721476) Homepage Journal

      There is a vast difference between merely providing an app store, and an app store that is the only method of obtaining 3rd party software for the platform.

    • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)

      by LWATCDR (28044) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:01PM (#32721482) Homepage Journal

      An interrogated app store IS NOT a terrible thing even for a desktop.
      What would be terrible is if Microsoft made themselves the only app store for windows.

      Take a look at Steam. It is really well loved by a lot of users but it is in effect an app store.

      Here is the important part.
      As long as I do not have to use Microsoft's app store I don't have an issue with them having one.
      As long as I can install what I want from where I want I just don't have a problem with this.
      Now Walmart, BestBuy and GameStop will be up in arms and the say good buy to the used software market for some stuff but other than that...

      • by bsDaemon (87307)

        An interrogated app store IS NOT a terrible thing even for a desktop.

        But what about an ENHANCED interrogated app store?

      • Now Walmart, BestBuy and GameStop will be up in arms and the say good buy to the used software market for some stuff but other than that...

        As far as I know, the used PC software market started to die in the fourth quarter of 2001 when Microsoft introduced Internet product activation for Windows XP Home Edition.

    • Re:Just hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MBGMorden (803437) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:01PM (#32721484)

      Nobody cares if somebody does an app-store. The model people fear is an app-store ONLY method where it's the only way to install programs. This doesn't appear to be that, so why SHOULD we care? The fears regarding Apple and OS X deal with the (very real in my mind) possibility that they could indeed setup an app store and mandate that it be the only source for third party software.

      • Yet, considering Windows security track record, Windows would benefit the most from Microsoft store as the only way to install applications on Windows, so Microsoft can check all of them if they are malicious (for a small fee of course) before making them available in the store.
    • I would think the most obvious thing to compare this to would be not Apple's App Store but MS's own XBox Live Marketplace.

      I doubt this would be the only way to buy software for a Windows 8 machine, just as buying stuff on Live isn't the only way to get games and stuff for your XBox. (Although obviously MS has some control of the 'buy a game on DVD and stick it in' vector on the XBox as well.)

      I wouldn't call this move innovative, but it isn't a terrible idea either. If it's too locked down or not good enou

    • by jonbryce (703250)

      That's fine, provided you can still install software obtained from elsewhere - if it is like the Click & Run warehouse in Linspire.

    • by canajin56 (660655)

      I have no problem with either Microsoft or Apple creating an app store for their Operating System, so long as they don't then block other methods of software installation, or block competing app stores. The problem with the Apple Store is that it's the only way to install software on your Apple device. So, Apple declining to host an app is the same thing as Apple forbidding the app on all of their devices. Unless Windows 8, or OS 10.? blocks unsigned programs from being installed, then it's just fine by

  • One of the goals is to ensure licensing and monetization for developers

    Considering how badly Microsoft has hampered open standards and locked down their operating system for the sake of "monetizing" software in the past, how bad will it be now that they are, presumably, trying to beat Apple at their own game of a walled-garden app store? And on the desktop no less?

    • Considering how badly Microsoft has hampered open standards and locked down their operating system for the sake of "monetizing" software in the past, how bad will it be now that they are, presumably, trying to beat Apple at their own game of a walled-garden app store? And on the desktop no less?

      Eh. The scenario in which that comparison's valid is really only possible IF this store is the "only" way to put software on a Windows machine. (I quote only because the app store is likewise the only sanctioned wa

      • it's a lot harder to tell someone who's had a Windows machine for decades, perhaps their whole life, that they now can only buy apps from your store.

        Compare it to the upgrade from a Commodore 64 computer to a Super Nintendo Entertainment System. On the C=64, nobody controlled who could publish an app on tape, disk, or cart. But the Super NES used a cryptographic lockout to enforce Nintendo's policy, which was only slightly less restrictive than it was on the NES.

  • by BuckaBooBob (635108) on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:53PM (#32721328)

    Microsoft... Bringing you Today's technologies 4 years from now..

    Wheres the innovation?

    And really? an App store? For WIndows?
    Cloud Computing? Really? Isn't it here now today?
    Searching the Web or Locally? (Hmm... I dunno if I have been doing this my whole life)
    Rapid Startup times? Every OS I have boots in less than 30 seconds.. Last time I booted windows it took 5 mins.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Because, clearly, most users want crazy new innovations.

      ... not really ... most users want working computers that are nicely integrated so they can do what they want with the least amount of effort.

      Only a few people want cutting-edge innovation in their day-to-day OS. Typically, those Linux distros have stability issues. ;)

    • And really? an App store? For WIndows?

      Do you disagree that the vast majority of Windows users would find an application repository useful?

      Cloud Computing? Really? Isn't it here now today?

      What? Yeah. What does that have to do with anything? It may be a surprise to you that technologies invented or used at one time may also be used at later times (it's true!). It's weird, I know.

      Searching the Web or Locally? (Hmm... I dunno if I have been doing this my whole life)

      If you are under 15, then you may have been searching online your whole life (for what, I don't know, but it doesn't look like you've found it).

      Last time I booted windows it took 5 mins.

      Oh... you're just a troll. Never mind then.

    • by Godai (104143) *

      Wheres the innovation?And really? an App store? For WIndows?

      Well, as others have pointed out, they've actually had this since XP I believe. I think one of the Service Packs added the Catalog link. If not, Vista certainly had one, they just weren't aggressive on pushing it.

      Truth is, their big headline is only news because of how Apple abuses their phone app store. Otherwise the headline would be "Windows 8 Leak Reveals Nothing of Note".

      Rapid Startup times? Every OS I have boots in less than 30 seconds.. Last time I booted windows it took 5 mins.

      I know you're exaggerating for effect, but I don't find the boot time of Windows 7 to be any worse or better than anything else. I'm

  • No problem Sir. If Apple can do it, so can we!

    Meeting...? Sorry, Tuesday isn't good for me..that's when I work on my iPhone apps. And Wednesday and Thursday - how about Friday, around 4pm?
  • by QuietLagoon (813062) on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:55PM (#32721366)
    rapid startup times

    .
    Always a promise from Microsoft, never a reality in Windows.

    • by Foofoobar (318279)

      rapid startup times...

      Oh sory.. that was a typo... let me fix that...

      RABID startup times...

      Much better. Let the chair throwing commence.

    • rapid startup times

      .
      Always a promise from Microsoft, never a reality in Windows.

      25 seconds from off to a Windows 7 desktop on my netbook seems rapid to me.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Windows 7 actually boots several seconds (~5 to 10, last time I checked) - with everything I typically use installed - than Ubuntu 9.x. I have not tried 10.x

      Sabayon and Windows 7 appear to boot more or less the same, although Windows 7 seems to be a bit faster still.

      I am running on a quad core 7gb ram system.

  • Don't care... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by demonbug (309515) on Monday June 28, 2010 @03:55PM (#32721368) Journal

    As long as I can continue to purchase and download software as normal I couldn't care less about an MS app store.
    The second they try to lock down Windows so you must use their app store, I'll be gone from the Windows platform and won't look back.

    So, whatever. Don't care. If Microsoft decides to shoot themselves in the foot trying to push this, they are easily replaceable.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by billlava (1270394)
      I agree with this. A Windows app store will help a lot of people, but if I can't install software manually, or by other traditional means, then I'll drop Windows too. I doubt they are this aloof, but MS might be greatly misreading their customer base if they think that people want a more iphone-like experience on their real computers.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Killer Orca (1373645)

      As long as I can continue to purchase and download software as normal I couldn't care less about an MS app store. The second they try to lock down Windows so you must use their app store, I'll be gone from the Windows platform and won't look back.

      So, whatever. Don't care. If Microsoft decides to shoot themselves in the foot trying to push this, they are easily replaceable.

      I really don't think MS is that quick to hurt itself, I think what they are looking to do is monetize development on their platform just like Apple does. To develop for the iPhone/Pad you need a Mac and the piece of hardware you want to develop for plus a developer's license, not only that Apple gets a cut of every sale. For Windows all you need is a copy of Windows and MS sees no money after that unless you get their development environment.

      What I do see MS doing is pushing this as the best way to get s

  • Lock-in alert (Score:4, Insightful)

    by girlintraining (1395911) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:04PM (#32721564)

    Great. The future of PCs is trying to be like the mobile phone industry today. They call it "integration". I call it "service restriction." There's so many artificial barriers like this in IT right now it's seriously impeding our ability to innovate. Why do we need a dozen different platforms, fifty operating systems, and a plethora of incompatible development environments, languages, and libraries underneath that? And don't tell me it's because each fills a "special niche" -- that's only true to a point.

    In the hardware world, we have cores -- dedicated chunks of silicon that each perform a specific task. They're licensed out for cheap, or in a growing number of cases, made available for free. I know programmers always have a library of their own code too because the truth is the same problems come up over and over again. But thanks to intellectual property and copyright law, there's virtually no code re-use. Nobody shares. And thanks to all of this, the operating system of 10 years ago could run on a P133 with 64MB of ram now needs 10x that just to boot.

    If you'd come to me 10 years ago and said, "Hey, I'm from the future -- and look what we've done!" ... I would have said "Fuck this, I'll be a doctor instead." It's complete bullshit the things we do in the name of profit. Think of what our infrastructure and society would look like today if we didn't have cell phones and basic cable sucking $200 or more out of us a month, banks finding new and better ways to fuck us over, debt collection firms getting people thrown in jail, and all this other stuff that basically say "We're fat, stupid, and need more money -- and you're gonna give it to us or else."

    What the hell happened to the idea that technology was supposed to make society better?

    • || What the hell happened to the idea that technology was supposed to make society better? || It only makes it better, if Microsoft *says* it makes it better. Understand?
      • by gknoy (899301)

        May I suggest using the [blockquote] ... [/blockquote] construct? (Using normal HTML angled brackets, that is.) It makes recognizing what you're quoting (as separate from YOUR message) much easier for a reader. Slashcode automatically indents it and changes text color to a lighter grey.

    • I call it security (Score:3, Insightful)

      by SuperKendall (25149)

      You complain about having so many different platforms, but this is helpful in one regard - avoiding a homogenous system, which leads to more trouble in the event of compromise.

      If you want to avoid duplication of efforts, it's pretty obvious at this point you want a core html5 app and then perhaps custom IPhone or Android specific applications as well. Then you can still have the system security of a number of platforms but lower development costs.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Dracos (107777)

      The future of PCs is trying to be like the mobile phone industry today.

      More like the last 25 years (since Windows 1.0) is trying to be like the mobile phone industry today. I see this "Windows Store" as one more step toward MS' goal of software as a service. How cynical is it to think that these virtual shelves will be stocked with:

      • Windows Update: $5/month
      • Microsoft Office Updates: $2/month per seat
      • Visual Studio Updates: $3/month per seat

      And others. I would expect the retail price of these products to dr

    • Re:Lock-in alert (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NeutronCowboy (896098) on Monday June 28, 2010 @05:00PM (#32722460)

      What the hell happened to the idea that technology was supposed to make society better?

      People.

      People replaced "... makes society better" with "... makes company more profitable". I was going to say capitalism instead of people, but this would also happen in any other economic and political model. We've demonstrated again and again that we're just a bunch of egoistic little chimps, who at best have the well-being of their tribe at heart.

  • I'll worry about this when it ships. OK, probably not, I lied. Microsoft; innovation at its highest form of flattery!
  • Click'n'run (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Rember Lindows/Linspire. Its click'n'run software had a pay download feature.

  • The ideas are no longer in Redmond.
  • Windows 8? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Megahard (1053072) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:18PM (#32721794)
    I see a potential marketing problem.

    Windows 8 .. my app.
    Windows 8 my files.
    Windows 8 my CPU.
    Windows 8 all my money.
  • by jav1231 (539129)
    See that's what's great about Microsoft. There so damn timely. I mean search engines come out and BAM! It only took them like nearly 10 years to come up with one.

    Microsoft is always following with the intention of thinking they can do it better. They never do. The one thing they did do better was market. That's why Windows became the default OS for nearly everything. Now they're losing that battle. This app store should be cool when it comes online in what, 2014?
    • by jav1231 (539129)
      There=They're. Someone hit me. :(
    • See that's what's great about Microsoft. There so damn timely. I mean search engines come out and BAM! It only took them like nearly 10 years to come up with one.

      Hey, be fair, MSN search came out back in the 1900s. It just seems like they were slower than that because almost no one wanted to use it.

  • Just wait for all linux-based distros to come pre-installed with an Android execution environment. Canonical is already working on it and might already be present in 10.10
    A platform and framework for smartphones, TVs, tablets, now linux distros. I guess you could even port it to OSX and windows. Thousands of apps suddenly available everywhere! =D

    The problem with current software installed through "repositories" is that apps don't follow a common API - instead every app is allowed to have a dependency to X l

  • Didn't they just get sued for this with Internet Explorer?

  • by scorp1us (235526) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:42PM (#32722196) Journal

    The software center in the latest Ubuntu is a joy to use. If I only marked certain apps as "best of breed", it would be perfect. And the price on all those apps, $0. Seriously. If my mic volume worked, I'd never boot windows again. (My Mic works, but it is too low, even when cranked to 100%.)

  • A Real Solution (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) on Monday June 28, 2010 @04:55PM (#32722368)

    I think going forward, most OS's are going to have an App Store built in. It's simply to convenient and brings to many advantages to the average user. It's also almost certain to be abused to reduce consumer choice and make the application market less competitive. So rather than complaining about it, I propose we modify the app store so we get all the benefits and none of the drawbacks.

    A central "store" app for downloading, buying, upgrading, and registering software does not really exist on any desktop today. Some handle noncommercial downloading, some handle nothing, some handle commercial titles only. The real hurdle is in getting some of the benefits (like vetted software and remote disable of malware) without getting the drawbacks (like a single gatekeeper and fewer choices due to artificial restriction). We can't trust any single vendor and we shouldn't have to. Rather we need a model where one app can manage multiple repositories, all with signed software, updates, and the ability to transfer payments for registration purposes. Then we need a separate component that vets the apps, verifies the sources and ACLs, and lets the user know how much they can trust the app. This info can come from multiple parties and be weighted to give an overall trust rating the OS can use to apply default security restrictions automatically. The multiple parties might be the OS vendor, a security company, and an open project akin to ClamAV and together they build a greylist for your apps.

    The benefit here is competition and better quality as a result. If MS is deciding all by themselves what software is trustworthy, they have little motivation to fix problems in a timely fashion or work hard at it. If, however, three or four parties are offering a for pay service, they're all competing for your money and are directly motivated to do the best job possible, resulting in fewer mistakes and better data for end users.

    1. Windows 1.x
    2. Windows 2.x
    3. Windows 3.x
    4. Windows 95
    5. Windows 98
    6. Windows ME
    7. Windows 2000
    8. Windows XP
    9. Windows Vista
    10. Windows 7 (!!!???!!!)
    11. Windows 8 (!!!???!!!)

    [turns to Nigel] Shouldn't we be at 11 by now?

  • Windows XP

    Service pack 4 maybe?

    OR, get your favorite Linux distro.

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