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Networking Sony Television Entertainment Technology

HDBaseT Supporters Hope To Kiss HDMI Goodbye 336

Posted by timothy
from the rj-45-rocks dept.
arcticstoat writes "HDMI's short-lived reign over the TV cable racks could soon be over, thanks to a new usurper that combines several connections into a standard Cat5e/6 network cable with an RJ-45 connector. Designed by a coalition of consumer electronics manufacturers called the HDBaseT Alliance, which includes Sony, Samsung, LG and Valens, HDBaseT promises to not only carry video and audio signals, but also provide a network connection, a USB signal and even electricity using a single cable. The Alliance predicts that we'll start seeing the first HDBaseT equipment creeping into the shops later this year, but says the bigger wave of adoption will occur later in 2011."
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HDBaseT Supporters Hope To Kiss HDMI Goodbye

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  • Kiss HDCP bye too? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by betterunixthanunix (980855) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @04:36PM (#32763288)
    Can we please kill HDCP? Please? There is no technical reason why my monitor should not be able to be connected to an HDMI-capable entertainment device by means of an HDMI-DVI adapter.
  • HDCP (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MillionthMonkey (240664) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @04:37PM (#32763310)
    What's going to deny me the right to watch my own stuff whenever I'm not allowed?
  • by ICLKennyG (899257) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @04:41PM (#32763374)
    I would tag this as a sudden break out of common sense, but I am not sure that it is. Yes, it's better in that I will be able to terminate my own video cables again, but how many cable standards do we need? I fully welcome our new Cat5e overlords but I just want the madness to stop.
  • RJ45 bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Darkness404 (1287218) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @04:51PM (#32763554)
    Its -always- a bad idea to keep different cables with the same connector. Good luck getting the average person to know the difference between all of the cables with the same connectors.
  • Yes, there is a technical reason your monitor can't be connected to your entertainment device... Your monitor doesn't support HDCP decoding.

    Then what's the technical reason to require HDCP in the first place?

  • by Burning1 (204959) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @04:54PM (#32763626) Homepage

    Haven't we learned anything from PS/2 connectors? Installing ports that are physically, but not electronically compatible on consumer devices is a stupid solution.

    Given that a lot of receivers and devices currently have built in Ethernet ports for network connectivity, I can't see this as being a particularly good idea... It's not as if hard wired Ethernet ports are common in residential walls...

  • by nimbius (983462) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @04:57PM (#32763672) Homepage
    this madness will end with new standards, it wont. The connector standard has become as much a marketing phenomenon as it has a control of the customers choice of provider and repeat purchase options. Just take a look at cellphone power connectors as a prime example. or for us old farts, i can simply whisper betamax and we're all sent running for cover. The easiest thing to do in light of all these changes is wait a few years for the price to drop substantially, and upgrade components as needed. yeah, i still have VGA for my monitor, and composite or svid for my video. things that need to go a long distance get baluns or repeaters.

    at the risk of getting the troll stamp, you could go so far as to say the entire HDMI standard and its accompanying 720p/i 1080p/i standards are complete poppycock. computer monitors have had resolution superior to these standards for years before their inception.
  • by tepples (727027) <{tepples} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday July 01, 2010 @04:57PM (#32763684) Homepage Journal

    The proper solution was to go to fiber. They could do long runs

    The major U.S. motion picture distributors don't want you to do long runs. You could be doing runs to a nonsubscriber's house or doing long runs through a building that is large enough for a commercial public performance. That's why HDCP requires proximity.

  • by Nadaka (224565) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @05:09PM (#32763914)

    Hopefully anything using this connector will poll the other side of the cable for its capabilities before it starts dumping 100w of power out the other end. Similar occurs with current systems using PoE and detection of 10M, 100M or 1G network speeds.

    This is actually something I am very much looking forwards to. It can cut down on the expense and hassle of a half dozen different cable types. Cat5e/Cat6 is fairly cheap compared to a lot of cable types and can be custom fit.

    Imagine a monitor with this and the following features:
    1 cable to the computer, 0 cables to the outlet.
    A built in USB hub for your memory stick/mouse/keyboard/webcam/etc.

    Think of how much clutter you can save and how much more freedom you have in placing your workstation in relation to your cpu.

  • This makes sense (Score:3, Insightful)

    by steveha (103154) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @05:10PM (#32763930) Homepage

    Remember how parallel ATA was replaced by serial ATA? Despite fewer wires, it can handle more data, because it's easier to push a serial protocol at a very high clock rate than to get a bunch of wires to synchronize perfectly at a high clock rate. And crosstalk between signal wires is a serious issue; check a parallel ATA cable sometime and notice how many ground wires it has. (To use the fastest parallel ATA modes, you must use an 80-wire cable, and over half of those 80 wires are ground wires, just to guard against crosstalk.)

    So I found it surprising that HDMI was a parallel cable spec! And I do not find it surprising at all that this new standard will be a very high clock rate serial protocol over standard Ethernet cabling.

    Note that this came out of industry, and not out of an ivory-tower standards group.

    steveha

  • Re:One question (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bakkster (1529253) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `nam.retskkaB'> on Thursday July 01, 2010 @05:27PM (#32764204)

    Will Monster make a special gold-plated, oxygenated cable for it?

    Of course they will. So would I, if I could manage to get through the sales speech without breaking down in hysterical laughter. Some money just deserve to be taken.

    Because they don't understand enough about the physics of digital electrical signals? I assume you expect to be taken advantage of by your mechanic/doctor/banker because you don't know enough about cars/biology/financial devices? Your money deserves to be taken, right?

    I'm of the opinion that we should be spreading information, instead of being the assholes laughing in the corner and watching Monster get richer.

  • Re:One question (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 01, 2010 @05:46PM (#32764552)
    If any one comment deserves to be modded to +infinity, this it is. I am so sick of the smug assholes who think everyone should be EE and/or Comp. Sci. expert, and people deserve to be taken for a ride when they are not.
  • Re:One question (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ultranova (717540) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @05:55PM (#32764690)

    I assume you expect to be taken advantage of by your mechanic/doctor/banker because you don't know enough about cars/biology/financial devices?

    Why yes, I do. It's not right, but I fully expect each and every one of these persons to ignore that and screw me over. That, arguably, is the biggest problem facing our time: you can't trust people, so the separation of labour breaks down, requiring you to be an expert at everything.

    I'm of the opinion that we should be spreading information, instead of being the assholes laughing in the corner and watching Monster get richer.

    Just because there's no difference doesn't mean that an audiophile can't hear it. Seriously, expect to be blown away by the very same people who you're trying to help.

  • Re:One question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bakkster (1529253) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `nam.retskkaB'> on Thursday July 01, 2010 @06:00PM (#32764820)

    I assume you expect to be taken advantage of by your mechanic/doctor/banker because you don't know enough about cars/biology/financial devices?

    Why yes, I do. It's not right, but I fully expect each and every one of these persons to ignore that and screw me over. That, arguably, is the biggest problem facing our time: you can't trust people, so the separation of labour breaks down, requiring you to be an expert at everything.

    However, note that the GP states the money 'deserves' to be taken. I think that crosses the line from 'need to be cautious' to 'GP is an insufferable douche-bag'.

    I'm of the opinion that we should be spreading information, instead of being the assholes laughing in the corner and watching Monster get richer.

    Just because there's no difference doesn't mean that an audiophile can't hear it. Seriously, expect to be blown away by the very same people who you're trying to help.

    Unfortunately, that is true. Of course, I think the average person buying a Monster HDMI cable isn't an audiophile, they're just swayed by pretty colors and lots of stickers.

    And I think most people can be swayed by the 'but think of all the things that upgrade money could go to instead that will actually improve your sound/video quality' argument.

  • Re:No kidding (Score:4, Insightful)

    by commodore64_love (1445365) on Thursday July 01, 2010 @06:15PM (#32765060) Journal

    Not really. If you have a copper cable that works just fine transferring the HD signal from your Bluray to your TV, then that's all you need. Going out and buying a $100 gold-plated cable will not make digital bits any more "bittier". 1s and 0s are 1s and 0s, and you will see no improvement.

  • Re:One question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bakkster (1529253) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `nam.retskkaB'> on Thursday July 01, 2010 @07:25PM (#32766164)

    You don't need to be an EE or Comp. Sci. expert to understand that digital audio/video cables can't improve the signal quality beyond 0 data loss, you just need to have managed high school level physics.

    First of all, signal quality and data loss weren't part of my high school physics curriculum. Nor were they part of my college physics curriculum. That's because we're talking about digital signals, which are the realm of EE and CS.

    Secondly, the point is that the advertising implies that other cables don't have zero losses. Unless you understand beyond the basics of digital signals (and let's face it, that's hardly ubiquitous knowledge right now), you're vulnerable to advertisers abusing their 'air of authority'. Unless you can prove the box wrong, it's understandable to trust it (perhaps people have been desensitized by truth-in-advertising laws?).

    People don't necessarily 'deserve' to be taken for a ride if they can't figure this out, but bear in mind that we're talking about people with more money than sense - it's not like they're being ripped off for food, healthcare or basic transport - we're talking about luxury goods being sold to people with money to burn.

    These cables are pushed to anyone who will listen, not just the obscenely rich. Best Buy will sell them to someone buying a new TV, even if they don't have an HDMI device putting out HD video. This is an up-sell even for those who can't afford to spend $100 on their cables, based on the fear that their TV (which may be a rare luxury purchase, due to their budget) will not work without it.

    And as stated above, these are people with more money than knowledge, not necessarily sense. Well disguised technobabble can confuse even the best of us without background knowledge.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 02, 2010 @02:00PM (#32776796)

    hdmi is not a parallel spec. each lane carriers a high speed serial link in a similar manner to pcie, sata, srio, xaui, ect... It's most similar to pcie really -- multiple serial data lanes.

    the protocol then defines certain patterns to be used for synchronization. this is called channel bonding. it certainly makes sense for things like PCIe and SATA, where the cable length is short.

    ethernet uses multi-level signaling. this makes the transmitter/reciever more complex, but allows cheaper cable to be used. If you want a higher-end system, things like DOCSIS will get very high spectral efficiency, allowing the cheapest cable.

  • Re:One question (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jesset77 (759149) on Friday July 02, 2010 @11:17PM (#32782972)

    Look, I'm skipping the rhetorical question [slashdot.org] turned pissing match [slashdot.org], but for real. Sometimes we simply lack the power to protect the willfully ignorant from their own naiveté, especially when they abuse us for our troubles [youtube.com]. Then it's the best we can do [xkcd.com] to simply hope beyond hope that they'll catch on [youtube.com].

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