The Puzzle of Japanese Web Design 242
I'm Not There (1956) writes "Jeffrey Zeldman brings up the interesting issue of the paradox between Japan's strong cultural preference for simplicity in design, contrasted with the complexity of Japanese websites. The post invites you to study several sites, each more crowded than the last. 'It is odd that in Japan, land of world-leading minimalism in the traditional arts and design, Web users and skilled Web design practitioners believe more is more.'"
Ever been to Tokyo? (Score:5, Insightful)
uh, stupid anglo-centric post. (Score:2, Insightful)
this is a fairly stupid [read:ignorant] article. 1) in japanese, the websites mentioned in the article are relatively simple. 2) japanese like their content information-dense. pick up a japanese newspaper sometime (or a hot pepper guidebook). it's not that the design is cluttered. it's that they are very eco-friendly when it comes to using paper [read: they like to cram a lot together to save space]. it's very anglo-centric to declare their design to be so cluttered, considering these two things.
Too much? (Score:5, Insightful)
Korea is the same but worse (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ever been to Tokyo? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ever been to Tokyo?
Yes, I lived there for a number of years, including a few brief periods during which my projects included web applications.
There are some places in the city (for instance near Shinjuku Station) that are covered with lights, flashing signs and colorful buildings (even the occasional giant motorized crab, if you look carefully).
However, there are even more places in Tokyo that are always quiet. You don't even need to leave the Yamanote Line. Take a walk between Ikebukuro Station and Sugamo Station sometime.
It's no surprise that you've only seen busy streets if you haven't gone far from the big stations.
To get back on topic, the idea that Japanese web sites are on the whole somehow over-complicated is a bit bizarre. If anything, the key difference between web design in Japan and web design in America, is what seems to be a lag of several years. Technologies that seemed rather commonplace in America such as Ajax, or even widely accepted best practices like CSS-based layout were fairly rare in my experience.
I don't have time to find good examples at the moment, but it's anything but difficult to find a Japanese web site that looks like it came straight out of 1995.
Re:Not so sure (Score:3, Insightful)
I compared the two sites and if you think the Japanese site is good in any way I can only say you're giving the cultural thing too much credit. The header of that site is the only thing that look well designed.
The 4x6 grid of colorful banners is so all over the map in colors and fonts that you have to mentally refocus when reading each of them. And the color choice on the text on the left side is too thick to see the details and they don't even try to break the lines properly. (Only seen this done well by school kids since it's never needed normally)
While the ministry of health site is good compared to most other Japanese sites, it will likely be many years before they move towards western designs. I've only seen one example shown of a newspaper site where the designers did put simplicity and ease of use as top priorities. They thought they were rather progressive and unique.
In Japan, that is true.
Re:Different writing system (Score:3, Insightful)
Hebrew vs Dutch (Score:5, Insightful)
A dutch program from my youth tried to explain dyslexia by showing street signs in Hebrew, rather then dutch. It looked apparently very confusing. Except to my mother who could read it. The clutter wasn't there for her because she parsed it as readily as dutch.
ANY foreign language will look cluttered because you brain is trying to create meaning out of chaos and failing. If you watch a loading dock you will see chaos. A person who knows the process will see organization.
People who say in this topic that Tokyo is crowded obviously never been to Time Square or for that matter the Kalverstraat. But your brain can parse those signs and classify them as unimportant.
Your brain, being inhabited in tasty meat, is trained to react strongly to things it doesn't expect because it expects them to be a hungry animal on the lookout for said tasty meat. We don't have to notice that tree we have grown up around, but we have to notice the addition of two eyes and a twitchy tail to its branches.
Here is a simple test: Install a japanese language pack in your OS and change the setting so everything is in japanese. Notice how cluttered it all of sudden is? Excactly the same layout, but you suddenly can't find anything.
For that matter, put slashdot through google translate and see how suddenly the site seems filled with random ramblings by sociopaths who live in their mothers basement.
Re:Do not RTFA, the summary is TFA (Score:4, Insightful)
Agreed, if anything, TFA can be construed as racist by implying the Japanese aren't conforming to Westernized characterizations of their culture.
Many of the TFA's "assertions" of "Japanese simplicity" fall apart when the sites are translated into English text.
Re:Do not RTFA, the summary is TFA (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly. If you've ever seen a Japanese news paper you would know that they can be quite visually overpowering. Not because of kanji or anything but because of liberal use of color, dramatic fonts and a high density of articles per page. For some reason they just don;t find it as overpowering as we do. So why should Japanese websites be any different?
Stay tuned until after the break where we show you Europeans sophisticated complicated food, Africans display amazing ability for dance and South Americans demonstrate impeccable soccer skills...
Re:Do not RTFA, the summary is TFA (Score:4, Insightful)
Because that is how their culture has been for a long time. Look at Japanese TV, Media, etc... Why should their websites be any different? Also what is this myth that all japanese love the zen of minimalism? I have a couple of japanese friends and the amount of crap they cram into their tiny apartments is amazing. Minimal? Not a chance... Maybe a few esoteric ones that get press are... Just like here in the states... but most are living in tiny quarters with a lot of stuff because they are not multi-billionaires to afford a > 130 sq meter apartment that is zen like...
Japanese people are different than the typical USA suburbanite because of culture and living on a postage stamp of an island. the article might as well ask why Norwegian websites dont come in a box you have to assemble yourselves because they all work at and live Ikea.
Re:Do not RTFA, the summary is TFA (Score:4, Insightful)
Many of the TFA's "assertions" of "Japanese simplicity" fall apart when the sites are translated into English text.
Exactly. My bullshit-o-meter went off as I read the summary, and upon visiting each site I clicked the "English" link and saw a perfectly acceptable layout for a government or business website. I think the author is put off by the Japanese written language more than anything; by necessity it requires use of a lot of what would otherwise be white space on an English-language page.