Chevy Volt Not Green Enough For California 384
Posted
by
samzenpus
from the no-rebate-for-you dept.
from the no-rebate-for-you dept.
thecarchik writes "The first two plug-in cars from major manufacturers will go head-to-head on warranties and lease prices: $350 a month for the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, $349 for the 2011 Nissan Leaf. Now the choice shifts to other measures, including electric and overall range, as well as the plug-in perks that states like California offer to early adopters to encourage them to opt for electric cars. This is where it gets interesting. While California loves the Nissan Leaf, current regulations deny Chevy Volt buyers two significant perks: a $5,000 rebate, and permission to drive solo in HOV Lanes."
The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:4, Informative)
The leaf is not a hybrid, the volt is. Seems pretty simple here folks.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:5, Informative)
Not really - since the Prius DOES get the benefits that the Volt won't be.
So... yeah. It makes very, very little sense.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, nope. HOV passes are not issued to hybrids any longer.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:2, Informative)
GM didn't appy. (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1896 [evworld.com]
According to GM spokespersons Robert Peterson in Michigan and Shad Balch in California, GM decided in 2007 when it committed to series production of the Volt, to not seek California Air Resources Board AT-PZEV certification. Instead, the decision was made to certify the car in all 50 United States. ARB certification would have required, both GM executives explained, additional testing and since California's air quality regulators had yet to figure out how to classify the Volt, GM felt it was more important to continue the accelerated development program and get the car out by the Fall of 2010 then wait for ARB to come up with a way to categorize what will be for many drivers essentially an all-electric car, while for other who driver further distances each day, a hybrid.
Re:HOV is for CONGESTION not for ENVIRONMENT (Score:3, Informative)
Again, you are looking at the EPA's web site, and the environment is not the original intent of HOV legislation. It was added-on many years later, most notably in Virginia who fight it ever time it comes up for renewal. Politically, it was a nice extra justification for having HOV lanes and in a very small number of states the clean/special fuel provision was added to the protest of highway planners.
As for quoting my sources, here is one that mentions the optional exceptions that states may allow, and it is a very new provision. HOV lanes in Virginia, for example, are over forty years old. You'll note the DOT's web site says "may" allow clean/special fuel, not "must," for states "choosing to allow exceptions."
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/safetealu/factsheets/hov.htm [dot.gov]
Re:Why should ANY of them get an HOV lane pass? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:5, Informative)
oh man, bad news for chevy (Score:2, Informative)
I've you've ever been to the sf bay area during rush hour, most commuters would give their left nut for the ability to drive in HOV lanes. This will be /huge/ - the volt, with it's integrated range extending gas engine seems like a better idea than the all-electric leaf, but the market value of a HOV sticker, even without the rebates has got to be five or ten grand.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:5, Informative)
I can't believe how many people here seem to misunderstand this... As you say, the Volt is an EV. It can run without a drop of gasoline if you want it to, something a hybrid can't do. The drivetrain of the Volt is purely electric. The gasoline part of the Volt is just a generator to keep providing juice to the electric motor if the battery pack runs out. If you stay within the range of the battery pack, the generator will never need to turn on.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:1, Informative)
Nope, it's got a gasoline engine. It's a different kind of hybrid [wikipedia.org].
Re:This is why we need a carbon tax (Score:3, Informative)
Re:GM Must Be Freaking Right Now (Score:3, Informative)
According to DOE, it takes 17% more energy to make diesel from oil than gasoline. The greener the formulation (in terms of tailpipe emissions), the more energy it takes to make it.
As for biofules, I'd rather see us use methanol which can be produced form grasses that replenish the ground they are planted on and trap substantial carbon in the ground at production time.
Re:The Chevy Volt is a series-hybrid? (Score:4, Informative)
Typically diesels are more efficient than spark ignition engines - though not as much as it seems. Diesel fuel is more dense than gasoline so while the carbon emissions are better per mile, it is not by as much as the miles per gallon would suggest.
Typically diesels are more expensive and heavier than equivalent power spark ignition engines (for similarly advanced designs), so there is some disincentive to consumers. Diesel fuel is somewhat less available in the US.
Possibly a more serious problem is that diesels produce more non-CO2 emissions, especially particulates, than spark engines. This has gotten better over time, but modern spark engines are still cleaner.
A diesel hybrid is still a good idea - but not quite as big a win as it might seem
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:3, Informative)
Volt was developed by Opel in Germany.
Re:GM Must Be Freaking Right Now (Score:3, Informative)
Diesel cars that are sold in Europe do not usually have expensive exhaust after-treatments, and those models are too dirty for California's emissions regulations.
It's required by law in Norway, and the last time I checked, Norway is still in Europe
Re:Why should ANY of them get an HOV lane pass? (Score:2, Informative)
As someone who used to commute by bus, I can say that buses are terrible in most places I've lived. The last time I used the bus with any regularity, it was only a last resort. If I left my house on bicycle, I could be at work in 20 minutes. If I took the bus, it was 45 minutes from pick up to drop off, probably 52 minutes overall, counting the walk to/from the bus stop and being a few minutes early so as not to miss the bus. I only took the bus when it was raining or when it was summer (too hot to ride without too much sweat), but the bike was much better any other time.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:3, Informative)
A vacuum sealed container is necessary because the Prius is constantly starting and stopping its engine. IIRC, the Volt runs its battery until depletion, and then runs its engine continuously until the battery is again charged... even a Prius-style insulated converter would not stay hot enough for the large time between running the engine.
The difference is in philosophy... the Volt is essentially an electric car with a backup power source. The Prius is a gasoline car with electric assist - even though it will get a plug-in mode.
Re:I'm puzzled (Score:2, Informative)
your comment about hearing "incorrect engine timings" is complete bullshit. There are very few cars on the road today where this is settable by a mechanic... it is all handled by the engine management system.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:2, Informative)
Except for the range. The Leaf goes 100 miles, the Volt, only 40 (shades of the 1980s).