Chevy Volt Not Green Enough For California 384
thecarchik writes "The first two plug-in cars from major manufacturers will go head-to-head on warranties and lease prices: $350 a month for the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, $349 for the 2011 Nissan Leaf. Now the choice shifts to other measures, including electric and overall range, as well as the plug-in perks that states like California offer to early adopters to encourage them to opt for electric cars. This is where it gets interesting. While California loves the Nissan Leaf, current regulations deny Chevy Volt buyers two significant perks: a $5,000 rebate, and permission to drive solo in HOV Lanes."
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:2, Interesting)
Hybrids were elegible for rebates and the go-fast sticker, and the Volt has a far longer battery-only range than any previous hybrid. But I can't see California giving perks to buyers of American cars under any circumstance, just too against the culture here.
HOV is for CONGESTION not for ENVIRONMENT (Score:5, Interesting)
HOV is for CONGESTION not for ENVIRONMENT. This is why for many years you could not build an extra lane on an interstate highway without building at least one of them as HOV. Of course, this so-called regulation was promptly disregarded in the New York City metropolitan area along whose left lanes on I-287 you can see the abandoned HOV signs and faded diamonds on their new left lanes.
But, seriously folks, HOV was always intended for congestion relief, not "clean/special fuel." This is why Virginia fights the hybrid-on-HOV law every time it expires. HOV was not originally intended to have anything to do with the environment, just congestion.
Re:The Chevy Volt is a series-hybrid? (Score:4, Interesting)
If it was diesel I would be way more interested. Why bother with a gasoline engine?
It seems unecessarily complex... (Score:5, Interesting)
All you have to do is calculate an adequately accurate conversion factor between a few fuel sources, based on what variables you care about(ie. co2 emmissions, foreignness, renewability, presumably a weighted average of some kind.) Then you could simply slap an "efficiency under expected conditions" number on each vehicle, without regard for how it achieves it, and go from there. Who cares if it is gasoline, hybrid, electric, diesel, alien tech, when we could know how efficient it is at moving from point A to point B at the lowest cost across the variables that concern us?
(If one were feeling really radical, one could simply apply a system of Pigovian taxes and/or credits to the fuel sources, and let car buyers follow their economic incentives from there; but I'm guessing that that'll be a non-starter.)
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:5, Interesting)
Not really - since the Prius DOES get the benefits that the Volt won't be.
So... yeah. It makes very, very little sense.
Yep, it makes "very, very little sense" because it's incorrect.
If you bought a Prius TODAY, it would not qualify for the HOV lane exemption because you couldn't get a new exemption sticker for it because they've all been allocated. Anyways, by 2011, no hybrids will be allowed in the HOV lane with just one person... how is this different for the Prius than for the Volt since both won't be able to qualify for the HOV lane exemption by the time the Volt is sold in CA? http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1041787_hybrid-owners-howl-as-california-hov-lane-access-ends-in-december [greencarreports.com]
Also, if you bothered to read the original article, the reason why the Volt doesn't qualify for any CA credits is because it didn't meet CA AT-PZEV requirements that the current Prius meets. Who's to fault when their vehicle doesn't meet a published standard? Blame GM, not CA.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:2, Interesting)
Indeed. The Volt is just a petrol car with Green cred tacked on (though not as bad as the stupid Prius, which you can't even plug in without invalidating your warranty). These hacks will die out soon enough.
Phillip.
Re:GM Must Be Freaking Right Now (Score:5, Interesting)
California and green have little to do with each other. I just moved out here to take a job, and I was thinking I'd like to buy a diesel as my next vehicle, since to my way of thinking a diesel is far greener than a moderate hybrid like the Prius (the Volt is a different animal). Plus the low-end torque is great, as is the possibility of converting it to alternative fuels. Much to my surprise, I learned that you can't even buy a diesel car out here.
From what I can tell, California is about regulations that make people who don't know much feel good.
Re:The leaf is not a hybrid (Score:3, Interesting)
My understanding is that these AT-PZEV requirements need some work -- part of the standard requires an immediate warm-up of the engine even if you have a PHEV, and that part is a holdover from pre-hybrid days where there was no such thing as a car (other than pure EV) that might make short trips on battery alone. IIRC some of the post-factory PHEV mods had to alter their software and make their designs less efficient in order to comply. Good intentions, but obsolete policy now.
and all these people... (Score:3, Interesting)
And all these people really need to travel back and forth all the time between those points because of ...why? Really, fuck-ing why? How come no one brings this up there at all, is it an "inconvenient truth"? Why do they need either expensive upgrade at this time, alleged "mass" transit or "private" transit, just to keep burning some form of energy, go to lunch someplace else, "go shopping", or what? How about Californians realize they got so used to making huge money during two really bogus back to back boom and bust cycles (dot com and real estate churning) that they became obscene travel energy hogs, and a lot of this travel is just 'because they can", no different from someone driving his hummer to the end of the driveway to the mailbox..
Why not just, ya know, stop being "green" hypocrites and cut back on excessive travel in the first place, or in other words, be responsible and drop demand? Then you wouldn't need to spend these huge sums on any of those projects, the existing infrastructure would be "enough", with much cheaper normal maintenance. Is a really unnecessary trip in an electric car all that "green"? How about the same really unnecessary trip with "mass transit" some boondoggle high speed train, or worse, flying in some atmospheric kerosene exhaust spewing jet? When is jet travel *ever* "green"? Never, near as I can see, absolutely never.
And California as "high tech"? Prove it! Why do they still have millions commuting to go sit in offices in the internet age? Shouldn't they be showing the world this isn't necessary now? All those silicon valley high tech computer places, Google, Apple.., all that "we are just so gosh darn special" brags everyone else hears over and over again all the time.. so why aren't they showing the way that physical commuting, using any form of energy burning transportation, isn't really all that necessary anymore for really a lot of people? Why aren't they leading the world in getting good ultra high speed fiber to every residence and business in the state?
Wouldn't that be cheaper, greener and actually more effective than either the road and airport upgrade, or the whizz bang super high speed train alleged "upgrade"? All I am seeing is them sitting there all smug and "green" all the time, and they are the biggest energy hogs in the nation still. Plus water hogs. Live in a desert, and just demand the rest of the nation provide them with all the water they can evaporate away, "just because" they are California and somehow "special", and always seek to dictate to the rest of the nation how to think and act, "follow our lead"! BS, they are energy hogs, electric cars or high speed trains, regular gas hogs or flying around to go "do lunch" in some other city, it doesn't matter, never sit still or enjoy where you are, always have to "go someplace else". That's almost a freaking disease, and it certainly is some form of harmful obsession that is ingrained in their culture now. So ingrained, no one there can see it. Obsessive compulsive travel junkies.
Re:GM Must Be Freaking Right Now (Score:3, Interesting)
sorry, the link also says, "The California Air Resources Board has concluded that diesel soot is responsible for 70% of the state's risk of cancer from airborne toxics." So, yes California has considered this issue specifically.
Re:WAKE UP CALL HERE PEOPLE, GM DID THIS TO THEMSE (Score:4, Interesting)
IDIOT.....
Stop watching hackumentaries.
EV1 was NOT viable for U.S. market. You want proof of that? Look at the Honda Insight which was capable of getting 75mpg. It was a similar design (2 seater, not-sporty). It had three significant differences:
1. It could be refueled and continued with driving in a matter of minutes, versus hours.
2. It cost around $20,000 versus $60,000-$120,000.
3. It had all the current safety equipment required by law for a production car. The EV1 did not. And the added weight to add it would have resulted in the vehicle's range being drastically reduced.
--
Now, what was the result of Honda's Insight? Oh, that's right. It lost money. And in it's final year it sold a whopping 350 vehicles and was pulled from the market. And that was a vehicle that was a fraction of the cost of the EV1, and had none of it's limitations or drawbacks except for being a 2-seater.
The result, proof that the EV1 was "non-viable" as a production vehicle.
Re:I'm puzzled (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep, I've driven in the USA and it's awful. The one that really got me was people merging from ramps without even looking and just shoving me out of the way if I happened to be there. How does that work...? After a couple of days driving there I'm convinced that nobody looks out of the window when driving.
In Germany there's no speed limits but there's plenty of polizei on the roads. You can burn past a patrol car at 200mph, no problem, but if they see you tailgating, hogging a lane, using a phone or doing anything other than paying attention tot he road and driving the car they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks. It works like a charm, Germany is one of the nicest places in the world to drive.
Re:I'm puzzled (Score:3, Interesting)
Germany is one of the nicest places in the world to drive.
And as a bonus, you get to see folks with Ferrari's, Lambo's etc. give their cars a chance to actually use their top gear, which can be quite an experience.
Hearing the roar of a happy DB9 in the distance makes me a happy camper ;-)
Re:I'm puzzled (Score:3, Interesting)
#3 and #6...At least here in Virginia, we have this annual joke of a requirement called the car inspection, where supposedly every year they go over your car and make sure it is road-worthy. In actuality, it creates guaranteed income for the all the mechanic shops who care more about charging you to replace wipers and cracked light housing than fixing real problems. I had a car that got hit for 3 of the running lights being out, yet they didn't say a word about all oil leaking from the pressure sensor (I would go through a quart a day at least). My current car passed w/ a broken engine mount, a broken linkage to the sway arm as well as the sway arm itself being bent. But I they tried to tell me the brake pads needed to be replaced until I pointed out I had replaced the pads myself the day before.
Compared to what I learned on a trip to Germany: annual inspections are not a joke and will cost you a lot of money if you don't regularly maintain your car.