Throwing Out Software That Works 622
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by
Soulskill
from the there's-an-app-for-that dept.
from the there's-an-app-for-that dept.
theodp writes "Just as the iPhone rendered circa-2007 smartphones obsolete, points out Marco Arment, the iPad is on the verge of doing the same to circa-2010 netbooks. Should this succeed, cautions Dave Winer, we may be entering an era of deliberate degradation of the user experience and throwing overboard of software that works, for corporate reasons. Already, Winer finds himself having to go to a desktop machine if he wants to view web content that's inaccessible with his iPhone and iPad. 'There was no bottleneck for software in the pre-iPad netbooks,' he writes. 'It matters. What I want is the convenient form factor without the corporate filter. It's way too simplistic to believe that we'll get that, but we had it. That's what I don't like — deliberate devolution.'"
Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPad causes all netbooks to disappear all of a sudden?
It's your own damn problem if you bought an iPad. Should have bought a netbook.
Writing this on my EeePC. I like a real keyboard.
Whip out that gopher client? (Score:3, Insightful)
Technology marches ahead. I can't check those 5.25 floppies anymore. How about those Corvus 5MB hard drives or cassette tapes of Lemonade?
That's how it is. If he doesn't like it, he can jailbreak his iPad, port Bochs, and install XP.
Buy a notebook (Score:1, Insightful)
He has my sympathy (Score:5, Insightful)
Obsolete...No. (Score:4, Insightful)
I use a smartphone (non-iPhone) and a netbook pretty much every day. They are far from obsolete, as they do exactly what I need in a form factor that provides a good balance of size, weight and battery life.
If your iPad doesn't meet your needs how can you claim it makes other devices that DO meet your needs obsolete?
I still want an iPad, but more as a cool toy than to fill any need. Oh, and I do not want an iPhone.
word count (Score:3, Insightful)
Was someone a bit short on the word count, and decided that "web content that's inaccessible with his iPhone and iPad" was a direct replacement for 'Flash'?
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:4, Insightful)
Steve Jobs is deliberately destroying the web and trying to remold it as he sees fit. He would rather that content creators only build native iOS apps that work only for iDevices rather than use already-existing channels & platforms that work perfectly fine.
His war on interpreted code/runtimes and (WORA) Write-Once-Run-Anywhere is a big headache for content creators everywhere.
Why is anyone still complaining about this? (Score:5, Insightful)
* And yes, I've heard all the FUD about how Apple's practices are going to tempt other manufacturers into doing the same thing they are. Give me a break.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:5, Insightful)
PDAs (Score:3, Insightful)
Those who failed to consider the implications of buying very limited devices can always buy another, different device.
Until "another, different device" stops getting manufactured. Case in point: PDAs. Ideally, people like me who don't need Internet in a vehicle and don't need anywhere near the 450 voice minutes a month of the cheapest U.S. smartphone service plans would choose a PDA over a smartphone to save money. But now it seems the only major PDA that isn't a smartphone is iPod touch. Everything else, such as nearly every Android 2 device, is marketed as a cell phone and costs two to three times as much as an iPod touch. For example, a Samsung Galaxy S costs 600 USD, compared to 200 USD for an iPod touch.
Re:Other smartphones obsolete? (Score:1, Insightful)
The iPhone made the smart phones of the time obsolete. Every other smartphone maker (even Blackberry) started aiming for iPhone-like usability. Have you ever used a Windows Mobile or Palm (pre-Pre) phone? The iPhone changed the game in 2007. I don't even own one, but all the sweet Android phones (and WinMo 7) owe quite a bit to the original iPhone. Just look up the pre-iPhone Android phone designs.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Same is true for my 2006 Nokia E61. Impossible how i could stand having the choice between several web browsers. Totally irresponsible how Nokia does not enforce the use of the preinstalled (not so good) e-mail client but allows me to install unsigned (or signed) alternatives. Totally irresponsible that there are several instant messaging clients. This hampers with my user experience. i have to make choices what works best for me. Thinking hurts.
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't get it because you aren't the target demographic. The socially challenged male in his basement with 12 computers (all of which have been stripped to the bare plastic at least twice) and his Gentoo compiling microwave oven doesn't need an iPad.
My 80 year old mother and apparently everyone else in her Assisted Living place are in the iPad demographic and they are falling all over themselves (actually not very hard to do at 80) trying to buy one.
Get over it, dude. Go take something apart.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:1, Insightful)
While new smartphones may be better than the iPhone, I note that the iPhone still sells more and has more deployed than any other smartphone. There is more to technology battles than just having the best tech - there is also marketing, and business skill. Apple has decent technology, but not the best. It does have the connections, the close relationship with AT&T, the extremally loyal fanbase, the marketing machine and cross-promotional ability that it takes to translate technology into market share. Without all that, even the most perfect of phones sits on a shelf unsold.
Re:Whip out that gopher client? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apples And Oranges (Score:1, Insightful)
I still don't understand why the iPad is pitted against the netbook. They are two VERY different devices, and in reality have VERY different markets.
Anyone who bought an iPad because that was the kind of device they were looking for were not looking for a netbook to fill that need. The same applies vice versa.
I have a netbook and I love it. I could use a tiny bit larger screen but it fills a need that the iPad could never possibly fill. I wanted a very small portable computer with a full computing operating system and a real keyboard and this is what a netbook gives me.
When it comes time to upgrade my phone, I'll be going for an Android phone with a large screen. I feel like this will easily cover what I would ultimately get out of a device like the iPad.
For reading books and whatnot, I enjoy using my ultra low power consumption eReader because of the ease of reading on the eInk display.
Yeah, maybe it sucks to have multiple devices to fill all of those spaces of use, but the iPad simply can't fill any of those spaces for me because the only need I have for a tablet computer is reading books. The only other use I'd have for it is it being a toy to play with. I'm not going to pay a shitload of money for a toy I'll probably play with for a week or so and hardly use ever again.
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was in the market for a netbook, but I waited until the iPad came out to see what it was. You know what? It's really cool, but it doesn't meet my primary needs as well as a netbook. I often need to do things like commander whatever large monitor is available at someone else's house or workplace, plug it into my netbook, and edit a large spreadsheet. I also do a lot of typing, some with the machine on my lap, and the iPad just gets killed by netbooks. So I went with a Hackintosh Dell Mini 10v. For my needs, it kills the iPad. But I also recognize that my needs aren't everybody's needs, and I've played with the iPad, and for some things, it's a way better experience. Yes, netbooks can do nearly everything iPads do, plus much more, but iPads do certain things better. If those are the only thing you do...
So if you don't "get it," seriously, have you ever tried doing the thing the iPad's good at on an iPad? Because I don't see how you could try it and not enjoy it, it's really smooth. I mean, the iPhoto experience on the iPad just kills my netbook.
The "article" is an absurd troll. The popularity of the iPad is not going to destroy the netbook category. Macs and iPhones are both selling really well too, but no one's complaining that they're about to destroy all other phones or computers. iPads for some, netbooks for others. Get what you want, nothing to see here.
it's his fault! (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not saying that they are not great devices or whatever if you buy one you know what you are getting or should. If you don't it is your own fault. It's called supply and demand. Apple is suppling what people are demanding and even if it falls short in an area or two most people are happy with what they get.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah my 2006 Blackberry is really obselete now. Going online, checking my mail, instant messaging, and god forbid calling people has never been a worse experience. But I guess I don't have a fart button app, time to throw it out.
The fact is you are right, but don't miss the humor in all this.
I think its hilarious that the guy posting this article made the *choice* to move to the iPad, and now blames Apple for the change in the market. Hello! Wake up dummy! You voted to support this with your DOLLARS when you already knew it would be this way --- oh and now its 'blame apple' time. And as far as I know all the netbooks are still available. Will your trend-wad friends not hang with you if you whip out your Acer instead of an iPad? Go get some REAL friends.
As far as I can tell this article is no more than a mask to cover the buyers remorse for being weak enough to fall for Apple's marketing/buzz/trend campaign. Boo hoo.
LOL.
Re:Wait for Google then... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem we see in all these opinion-pieces is that they look at the issue from the geek point of view. If a whole boatload of people are buying the iPad instead of a netbook it's probably because it works for them. Yes, people are stupid (No post is truly good if it's not condescending), but still - the iPad does what they need. :) ). My dad has a full set of tools and about 20 different screwdrivers, because that's what he needs. Same thing with the iPad and other Apple hardware. They all cater for the average user not the ubergeek.
For us geeks there are other alternatives, but does not mean there is a "deliberate degeneration of the UI". If anything, the iOS brought a UI that was more appealing to the average Joe.
Just as in any profession, there are different levels of tools for different levels of users. I have in my house one simple screwdriver and it's enough for all my needs (opening the computer case and changing cards
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:2, Insightful)
I have one, and it works fine. Great actually, as I just wrote this reply (by hand, not keyboard) in Windows 7, from a moving car.
I just hope you were not the driver of that moving car.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:2, Insightful)
That must be why the original iPhone didn't allow 3rd party native apps at all. /s
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:4, Insightful)
Let us know when your iPad can do all that. Heck, let us know when you can run Flash.
Get in Line (Score:1, Insightful)
I had the same thoughts many years back with OS9 on the Mac, it was fast and did lots of things (still could). OSX is glitzier, but in some respects it hasent matched what some of those 68k and PPC apps had dine decades ago. Problem was that new development with the OSX, so we were forced away from a lot of cool stuff that worked on OS9 so we could use other stuff that only worked on OSX and now Intel.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
So what the heck is wrong with making a phone or pad that supports HTML, and not plugins?
This is Slashdot, right, not the Flash Programmers Welfare Foundation?
Netbooks were a fad anyway (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:2, Insightful)
Does it weigh less than two pounds?
Can you just turn it off with a single button and toss it on the couch or chair without worrying about hard disk damage?
How well does it work with just touching the screen as an input device.
No, you are comparing laptops to tablets, like comparing a Cessna 172 to a Boeing 737.
"Yea, but you can't fly from Anchorage to Portland nonstop with 137 people, so it's not really an airplane..."
Yea, right now I'm on my laptop because I'm running BT and yep, my iPad won't BT, but since I've gotten my iPad it's used for about 85% of my casual surfing and my other laptop, the 17" gaming rig sits alone because I don't want 8 pounds on my lap.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
So what the heck is wrong with making a phone or pad that supports HTML, and not plugins?
What's wrong with making a phone or pad that supports HTML *and* plugins? Because there's no technical reason in the world to do that. Such products already exist. Those are shackles Mr. Jobs is putting on your wrists, not iFreedom Bracelets.
Re:Not Junk... Really (Score:2, Insightful)
Its not a netbook and shouldn't really be compared to one.
Since its uses are parallel to those of a netbook, I completely disagree.
For any place/purpose you could use an iPad, a netbook can do it. Additionally, there are things that the netbook can do that the iPad cannot.
The *ONLY* think a netbook can't do that your iPad can do is be an iPad. Once you've come to realize you bought an ornament it will make more sense to you why people compare it to netbooks.
Its a netbook with less options.
Its a netbook without a keyboard.
Its a netbook with limited space.
Its a netbook that doesn't run Flash.
Oh... and its a netbook by Apple, and so it has an 'i' in its name. Cool huh?
Lol. Apple. Lol.
* Why do you feel your manhood is being threatened by not being the target demographic for the iPad?
* Why do you feel that your netbook (and hence you personally) are being threatened by an improved user experience and batter life offered by the iPad?
* Why do you feel belittled when people choose an iPad over a netbook?
Your hating sounds more about you and your issues rather than the iPad. Chill out man - it's just another consumer item.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple explicitly has two supported mechanisms for creating iOS apps: the Cocoa Touch APIs, and open web technologies. And Apple has done quite a lot to improve the experience with the latter, including supporting HTML5 local storage and HTML5 application caching, which together allow for apps based entirely on web tech and distributed outside of the app store to be saved to the iOS home screen and run without network access. They also let such apps choose to hide browser chrome. Additionally, they've added multi-touch events to JavaScript, supported web geolocation features, and they're largely responsible for CSS3 animation (which is hardware accelerated on iOS devices).
Looking more broadly, Apple is the lead maintainer of WebKit (though I think Google makes about as many contributions these days), which is the most standards-compliant browser engine on the market, and has been the engine of choice for nearly every new browser and device released since WebKit became available, having now been adopted by Google, Nokia, RIM, Palm, etc.
Doctorow is doing something that's unfortunately all too common. By portraying them as enemies of freedom, he's making Apple into the bad guys he wants to be able to fight the good, righteous fight against. But the truth is that Apple doesn't oppose freedom in principle; their priorities are orthogonal to those of free software advocates. They want to make what they consider to be excellent products, and they want to make money doing it. Sometimes that leads them to embrace standards, contribute to the open source community, etc. Sometimes it leads them to lock down products because they trust themselves more than others to ensure the overall quality of the platform.
Don't Forget The Clones (Score:3, Insightful)
The iPad clones will be out soon and some of them will have flash and will not have other restrictions. People will use the clones, Apple will make those other things available to compete or both.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:4, Insightful)
It won't because that's not what it's meant to do. If your needs call for multiple USB ports, twin internal drives with 640 GB of storage, then the iPad is NOT FOR YOU.
I could say "My truck provides a much better experience (than your economy car, for example). I can carry a thousand pounds of cargo or tow a big trailer. I can go off-road, drive through deep snow or mud and not get stuck." If those activities are what you do, then of course an economy car is not the right vehicle.
As always, it's a case of the right tool for the right job. Why is this simple fact lost on so many people? Is the desire to bash Apple so strong that it blocks rational thought? Is this the Reality Distortion Field's anti-Apple twin?
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
Since when have content creators had anything to do with WORA? For a long time, it was more like WORIE -- Write Once Run on Internet Explorer. Jobs is probably delighted now that HIS is the platform they have to right for.
There's more to it than price (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is the iPad consistently compared to netbooks, when it is priced like a notebook
Because it is designed for the same use as the original netbook concept: a small, stripped-down portable device for media playback, web browsing, casual gaming, email and light note-taking, aimed at people who probably already had access to a full-featured PC.
...but the original netbooks sucked at that because they were made from shite remaindered PC components, drank batteries and tried to run off-the-shelf applications designed for more powerful computers with full-size screens, mice and keyboards. Even the linux-based ones just used a customised "launcher" screen in place of the desktop, over the top of the usual Mozilla/Open Office suite. But they sold enough to panic Microsoft (at a time when Vista was tanking) who started dumping cheap XP licenses for netbooks, with which the netbooks morphed into full-featured entry level notebooks.
The iPad gets back to the original "second system" netbook concept. Of course, since its Apple its only cheap c.f. the rest of the Mac range. There'll be cheaper non-Apple tablets (that have proper capacitive touch screens instead of resistive crap, run an up-to-date-version of Android, can access the Android market) sold by vendors that you'd be prepared to trust with your credit card number on the market real soon now. Just wait. Any time now. Just a while longer...
Freedom from the tyranny of choice... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it weigh less than two pounds?
Yes
Can you just turn it off with a single button and toss it on the couch or chair without worrying about hard disk damage?
SSD, so yes.
How well does it work with just touching the screen as an input device.
Why would I want smudges all over my screen when I could type on a physical keyboard with tactile feedback and control it without tiring my arm?
No, you are comparing laptops to tablets, like comparing a Cessna 172 to a Boeing 737.
"Yea, but you can't fly from Anchorage to Portland nonstop with 137 people, so it's not really an airplane..."
No, its more like comparing a roller coaster to an airplane. You are in the air, and it's kinda cool but entirely useless, and in the end you cant choose where you're going and end up back where you started.
Yea, right now I'm on my laptop because I'm running BT and yep, my iPad won't BT, but since I've gotten my iPad it's used for about 85% of my casual surfing and my other laptop, the 17" gaming rig sits alone because I don't want 8 pounds on my lap.
Im Guessing those other 15% have flash?
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:2, Insightful)
The only problem with your analogy is that, except for price, Apple products are much closer to puppet shows than to TV.
Only one provider, you cannot switch channels, that's a puppet show, not TV. And you listen to Steve Jobs for his wisdom, and hear about outside events from travelers. All together, it costs OVER TWICE what a netbook costs.
people need to know (Score:4, Insightful)
There are, and always will be*, alternatives
For 20 years, we have been stuck with a near-monopoly on desktop operating systems, because of marketing and network effects. We don't want to repeat that experience, blindly sliding into an iOS monopoly for portable devices.
Apple spends hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing their devices every year, often lying and misrepresenting their products and their history. It is reasonable for geeks to present an opposing view so that buyers can make an informed decision, know what they are getting, and understand the consequences of their purchases.
Put your money where your mouth is by shutting up and buying something is.
Why then doesn't Apple "shut up" and stop marketing their products? Why do you think that all the information we should ever get about products should come from the PR and marketing departments of companies selling those products?
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:2, Insightful)
It isn't about TV. It's about:
There's this new thing. I don't understand it. Therefore, I'm against it. Listen to my criticisms, people of the old ways, and heed them. The new threatens us and our established thinking. We shouldn't try to understand it. Better to shun it, stick to our own kind, and hope the new thing goes away.
Re:Wait for Google then... (Score:3, Insightful)
The iPad comparison is not apples to oranges, it is apples to nothing. There were/are no light, small, big screened devices at bestbuy that allowed you to do email / web. For most people, the iPad is new product, and there are no competitors.
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, what if I don't care about the relative price of an iPad and a netbook? You know what's even cheaper than a netbook? Just using the computer I already have. What if saving a few dollars and running Windows or Linux aren't my goals?
What if I want to read web sites without sitting at a desk in front of a computer?
Oh noes...the geeks arent the focus group anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the same whiney argument I hear from gamers who think the Wii is the devil. The slate computers that are coming out now are focused on the non technical and a certain segment of the geek community feels slighted. Many seem to be offended that in the end the lack of usb, memory card slots, camera and whatever features geeks cried about didn't really matter, couple that with the lack of a "real OS" being seen as a plus by the majority of people actually buying the devices and suddenly the "geek" is out of the support loop. Many geeks talk about their utopian society where everyone is technically adept and support requirements are minimal but very few actually want it.
There is no one to really blame but ourselves, just like hardcore gamers, our demands and expectations made us an unfavorable market, catering to the "casual" is less expensive, less demanding and far more profitable.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
So deviant art being "better", vs sites not working at all. . . your choice
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
They bought them for the wrong reasons, mostly - price. They hate the tiny keyboard and weirdo screen. The couple of people I know that have iPads just love them
That makes a lot of sense. The iPad is expensive, so the only people who buy them are people who can see a real use for them (or people with too much money). In contrast, netbooks are cheap, so lots of people buy them wanting something different because they can afford the netbook but not what they really want. I know a couple of people with netbooks - both bought them because they wanted a cheap second laptop that they could take to places where they wouldn't take their main one, and both are happy with them.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:4, Insightful)
This.
A netbook can do anything an ipad can do. It's cheaper. It's just about as portable.
And it is YOURS. You have root on it and can do whatever you bloody well please on it. It's a complete computer, with a modern multitasking O/S and the ability to do anything your desktop computer can do -- except slower.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:3, Insightful)
Guess which one weighs less per square inch of screen display :-).
Why turn it off? Just close the lid - suspend works fine under linux.
The drives have sensors rated for 300g - and *I* can replace them - who do you think added the second internal? It takes less than a minute.
I don't have to get fingerprints on the screen - I've got a touchpad and a FULL-SIZED keyboard (17" makes a big difference). And I can plug in an external keyboard and mouse if I want to - PLUS I have a Remote Control
My secondary video out right now is 1920x1200, not 1024x576. It's actually plugged into one of my 1920x1200 26" lcds as a second screen so I can code.
It's also running a web server, ftp server, etc., and it can saturate a 100mbps connection. Can your iPad do that?
It's not a truck, just a middle-of-the-road 3 or 4-year-old laptop with some extra ram and a second hd. And umlike Apple, it all "just works" all over the Internet. The iPad is for, as one of my friends would say, "people with more money than brains." It does nothing well.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:2, Insightful)
We aren't talking about your netbook, we were talking about the 17" dual drive laptop.
No, the other 15% of surfing are not because of flash, shocking but I'm not a Farmville/Mafia Wars player.
If I'm not surfing on the iPad I'm on a laptop because someone else has the iPad and won't give it up.
bug reporting (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:2, Insightful)
Do you use the terms "The PC", "The Windows", "The Linux", "The Twitter", "The Facebook", etc ?
Sometimes you don't need to use the article in order to refer to know subjects. Also, insulting the other person does not help in the discussion.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:3, Insightful)
Just so you don't think I'm bashing it, I like the iPad. It would be an improvement for some categories of laptop users. For example, the touch panel provides a better user experience for web browsing (as long as the site has been designed to work well on iPad). The small size makes it less distracting at meetings. The small size, low weight, and robustness makes it great for watching movies on an airplane or in a car full of kids. And so on. Your arguments, however, are way too easy to shoot down.
Are your arms not strong enough to carry a laptop that weighs more than that? What, specifically, makes lighter better? In my mind, the 5-6 pound average laptop weight is light enough that it's not a problem, so being lighter than that is only a significant virtue if it doesn't bring any significant drawbacks along with it.
More importantly, in my mind, added weight conveys a sense of robustness---a sense that the device can survive whatever abuse you can throw at it. The lighter and thinner the device, the more worried I am that I'll look at it the wrong way and it will break in half. Granted, there are advantages to light weight in terms of resisting damage when you drop it, but I still prefer the solid feel of a laptop.
No, and neither can you. You can put it to sleep. To turn it off, you have to hold down the button for a few seconds, then drag your finger across a slider. Similarly, I can put a laptop to sleep by shutting it. That's actually one fewer buttons, but who's counting?
<voice mode="Duke Nukem">SSDs, baby</voice>. If your idea of a good user experience requires being able to treat expensive electronics like crap, then you deserve to pay more (and pay more again when you accidentally hit the end table with that iPad instead of the couch). That's about the worst argument I've read to date in favor of an iPad. You shouldn't be throwing an iPad any more than you would throw a laptop, a desktop, or a Ming vase....
About as well as your iPad does for touch typing when it isn't docked to a keyboard, or, for that matter, about as well as your back and neck do when you're hunched over it typing on that onscreen keyboard.
You're confusing "Device A can't do X without extra effort" with "Device A can't do X". A Cessna can carry 137 people from Anchorage to Portland. It has to stop for fuel several times and make several trips, but it is capable of doing the job. Despite the fact that it takes a lot longer, it meets the criteria for an airplane because it can do basically anything a typical airplane can do, albeit more slowly.
Now ask yourself if an automobile is an aircraft. (Note the obligatory automobile analogy.) Both can usually get you from place to place. However, an automobile simply is incapable of doing a number of other things that an airplane can do. It cannot cross bodies of water without the assistance of a bridge or ferry, cannot take aerial photos (unless dropped from an airplane), cannot support skydiving (unless dropped from an airplane), etc.
A netbook is a Cessna; it can do anything a full laptop can do, but slower. An iPad is a Ferrari. It's a very nice automobile, but it isn't an airplane. It can go many places an airplane cannot, and vice-versa. It can support multi-touch interfaces that a desktop computer cannot. However, it cannot run Flash. Similarly, it cannot run apps that haven't been written for it yet. This will work itself out over time, of course, in mu
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:2, Insightful)
It's sad that a museum would do that. Not only does it stop people from viewing the page on small devices, but it makes it nearly impossible to make handicap accessible.
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:3, Insightful)
I have an ipad and a macbook pro. The latter is far more powerful than the ipad, does flash, etc.
The ipad is far more convenient to use. The macbook pro (a fast, loaded, 17" dual-core model) does a lot of sitting around these days. Because the apps on the ipad are truly excellent, and the touchscreen, as it turns out, is a lovely and very direct way to interact with the apps. As far as capability goes, you know, if I really need some horsepower, I can still hang on the couch, open a connection to my desktop, and run my 3 GHz 8-core Mac or my fast Windows box with my feet in the air and a cat in my lap using the iPad.
I agree with those who are saying you "just don't get it", and furthermore, as a guy without an ipad, your opinion of it is of questionable usefulness anyway.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:4, Insightful)
That's some nice revisionist history there, especially when you consider that the initial "development platform" for the iPhone was purely HTML web apps. A development platform, I should add, that is still 100% fully supported on all the iOS devices.
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's funny, because when netbooks first appeared, they came with Linux pre-loaded, and there were high hopes that ordinary users would buy them for light use, such as web browsing and email on the go. Nowadays, you'll struggle to find a netbook that doesn't come with Window (XP or 7 Starter) preloaded, because consumers saw it as a computer and wanted to do computery things with it.
Fast forward to today, and the geeks are crying foul because Apple is pitching their iPad to consumers using the exact same tactic that the geeks used to pitch netbooks to consumers... only this time it's working.
The irony is that most netbooks have screens that are small, widescreen and landscape, which is pretty unsuitable for browsing the web because pages flow from top to bottom. For all its faults, the iPad fixes this fundamental flaw.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Damn right. The web (Internet) was supposed to provide a platform that could be accessed by all devices, providing they adhere to the web standards. And that means HTML. Not Flash, or Silverlight, or even Java Applets.
So bugger off and make your own proprietary network standard. Just don't go bitch about a company that's brought out a devive that DOES support just the standards. Hell, should I moan if I bring out a proprietary plug-in that isn't supported by device X? Or should I put my money and time into making something that works within the standard (or at least help stabilise the upcoming standard)?
Next you'll be wanting to modify the TCP/IP protocol itself to suit your particular content - and then bitch at Apple for not supporting it in their products.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:2, Insightful)
* it just a draft
it may be just a draft but you can start using it today - people are using it to create the most dynamic content that is available.
* HTML support is fragmented and not fully supported by any browser :)
Its true that currently content won't work the same or render identically on most browsers- but to be honest at least the business of "this website is best viewed with [insert xxxx browser]" made people think about the designs they were making and the code they were writing - not a bad thing at all. Also about the browser they're using!
* Existing sites that can be viewed TODAY often rely on flash
this is true, but HTML5 is a fresh start to the way the web works - how else can you make progress.
* cutover to HTML5 will probably take 3-5 years for sites people want to see (car manufacturers, game sites, etc)
its possible to produce engaging content for the web suitable for these purposes - http://www.apple.com/html5/ [apple.com] shows the dynamic possibilities today
Re:Not Junk... Really (Score:3, Insightful)
For any place/purpose you could use an iPad, a netbook can do it. Additionally, there are things that the netbook can do that the iPad cannot.
The problem is not that for you technical capability is the only thing you are considering. Technically if I need to drive 500 miles, a beat-up 1978 truck will get me there. But I will enjoy the drive more in a luxury car. You are neglecting that user experience is important for many users. A simplified device appeals to them as they don't have to deal with things like files. Many PC users I know keep all their files on the desktop. Which device would these users prefer?
The other thing which you fail to take into account is purpose. The reason people buy an iPad is not because they want a smaller version of a laptop. The iPad is optimized to consume and view content. It can create content but not as effectively as a netbook or laptop. And for millions of people, that is exactly what they want. The average user wants something to surf the web, read some emails, and play their media. They're not coding, writing, or mixing music. If they were, they should get a netbook/laptop.
The *ONLY* think a netbook can't do that your iPad can do is be an iPad. Once you've come to realize you bought an ornament it will make more sense to you why people compare it to netbooks.
No one is forcing you to buy an iPad. If you want a netbook, go buy one. Why do you feel the need to denigrate others that choose differently than you?
Its a netbook with less options.
Its a netbook without a keyboard.
Its a netbook with limited space.
Its a netbook that doesn't run Flash.
Oh... and its a netbook by Apple, and so it has an 'i' in its name. Cool huh?
It is a device with that allows for 11 point multi-touch support.
It is a device that knows screen orientation.
It is a device that is instant-on.
It is a device with a 10 hr active battery life and a standby life of 1 week.
In other words, it isn't a netbook. Apple doesn't consider it a netbook. For Apple and users, it fits into a separate category.
Re:I Bought an iPad Two Weeks Ago (Score:2, Insightful)
Things that tipped the decision into "spend": 1. I'm going to Vegas. "Easy Vegas" app is good. 2. I'm going to Vegas and I'm going to watch movies on the flight. 3. Amplitube iPad Edition came out - and it's great. 4. Instant on. No need to boot to check weatheror news, or to look up something I'm curious about. 5. The Reuters app is awesome. 6. Camera connection kit deals properly with Nikon raw format. 7. The tools for photo management are really coming along beautifully. Photogene is a good tool for travel. Since then I've discovered some new things. 1. The 10 hour battery life is both real, and awesome. 2. I have gone to a site that required flash exactly twice, and I found the same content elswehere in a format I could view. 3. I really like reading magazines on it (Maxim with Kaley Cuoco!) 4. On the most difficult setting, the Scrabble app kicks my ass. 5. I haven't turned my netbook on since I got it. 6. The screen gets dirty when I eat cheezies and surf porn. 7. There's a LOT of compatible porn. 8. I've been expecting to have to buy a wireless keyboard, but so far I haven't "needed" to. Anybody want to buy a used netbook? It has crappy battery life and a screen that semi-sucks, but it has a keyboard. Do I give a crap that a bunch of nerds online think that it's underpowered compared to stuff that's 18 months away? Not even slightly. I'm as technical a guy as they come. My workdays are spent writing industrial scheduling and simulation software on Unix. But I'm past the age where I want to screw around with stuff when I get home. Give me something that works well and doesn't give me any grief.
All of these are great arguments for the iPad as a dedicated entertainment device.
But, as a laptop replacement, like the TFA suggests? Only if you only use your netbook for entertainment purposes only.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
I was on my way to a restaurant that had a website that did that. Apparently to find the address you had to navigate through a big flash thing. I picked a different restaurant. I would have done the same thing had I been on a computer that did support Flash. I have better things to do than put up with broken websites.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
the initial "development platform" for the iPhone was purely HTML web apps. A development platform, I should add, that is still 100% fully supported on all the iOS devices.
It sounds good on paper, but can you explain why every major business feels the need to write their own native iApp? If HTML5 apps on iOS are so good and portable, why aren't they heavily used in practice?
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
The one think you have to understand about Jobs is that he's primarily motivated by good design. Like all businessmen he wants to sell products and make money, but that's not an end in itself. He already has more money than he could ever spend. Sales are the way by which design decisions in his products are judged. They are like applause from an audience.
Technical reasons? Would the fact that most Flash apps are unusable on a touch screen count as technical reasons? For the most obvious reason Flash apps tend to use mouse hover a lot. Impossible on a touch screen. Or that much flash video is encoded in formats that suit desktops, but are terrible on the processors/bandwidth/screens of phones. And the fact that non-Windows versions of Flash are buggy and crash often.
Here, this is how awful Flash is on another phone platform.
http://blog.laptopmag.com/mobile-flash-fail-weak-android-player-proves-jobs-right [laptopmag.com]
But even though there are plenty of technical reasons for not allowing Flash, the primary one is design. Purpose built apps using the native API will always be better than the equivalent app written to run on a cross platform API. There will be a better UI (where better means living up to the expectations of users of other apps on the same device), there will be better usage of resources, and the battery life will be far better.
Of course the usual counter argument to this is: Give the user the choice. But choice isn't the universal good that people assume. e.g. If there is one good product and 9 bad products, it's better to give the consumer a choice of one than a choice of 10. Why should every potential user waste their time evaluating 10 products, with the chance that they'll get bored before getting to the good one?
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:2, Insightful)
You're on a forum full of Linux-lovers who will swear up and down that it's superior to Windows in every way imaginable. Reason and sense is not something you should expect. Masochism is.
Re:Wait for Google then... (Score:3, Insightful)
Right, the reason the netbook is "obsolete" to Mr. Weiner is he switched to an Ipad. Hey Dave, just don't switch. Stick with your netbook.
Netbooks are a solution looking for a problem (Score:3, Insightful)
They are just smaller and "CHEAPER" laptops with screens so small and low res that the desktop OSes running on them feel cramped. Their keyboards are painful to use for people with larger hands and the CPU/GPU power limits them to little more than light web surfing and use of "web" apps like Google Office.
I look at a netbook and I don't see them offering anything new to the table and feel like people are investing in them because of a false sense of economy when you are getting a device even less powerful than a 2006 MBP.
The really crazy people are those who already had a laptop and bought a netbook in addition to having a desktop.
If you really "need" a full OS on the go, get a desktop replacement and have that as your sole computer or if you really don't need desktop apps all of the time, get an iPad for apps and mobile gaming and connect back to your PC or mac desktop with Logmein or some similar service and you will have a tablet/slate with an OS designed specifically for touch from the ground up.
iPads are popular because they are easy to start using whether you are a windows user or mac user or even a novice. If you search Youtube videos, you will find that they are so easy that even a toddler can use one.