Iran Unveils Its First UAV Bomber 574
ms_gen writes "Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad unveiled today the first UAV bomber produced by Iran. The drone, named Karrar (farsi for Striker) can carry various types of bombs. It can reach up to 900 km/h in speed and has a range of 1000 kilometers (620 miles). The Iranian president mentions that 'Karrar is a symbol of the progress of defence technology in Iran.'"
Re:wtf (Score:1, Informative)
You mean 1944? That's when UAVs became commonplace.
V-1 with turbojet (Score:5, Informative)
Video of a test launch and production.
http://vodpod.com/watch/4282312-iranian-karrar-drone [vodpod.com]
Looks alot like a V-1 or Loon but with hard points on the wings and turbojet instead of pulse jet. So late 50s technology designed with CAD. Probably a 30-40% failure rate on them too, that's standard for first or second generation cruise missiles/drones.
Re:Left out the best part (Score:5, Informative)
Looks like a German V1 if you ask me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb [wikipedia.org]
Except the Germans had the sense to put the bomb inside.
Re:Limited Value (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know about this particular area, but Iran's industrial sector is more advanced than you might think. There is an extensive auto industry. Though it manufactures under licenses from foreign companies (the most common vehicle is a variant of the Peugeot 206), modifications have been designed and implemented in Iran. Iran is no banana republic.
Re:Left out the best part (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Irrelevant (Score:4, Informative)
What are you talking about? You do understand that there are many other countries with nuclear weapons, right? First, there's that funny litte country out east
War breeds more war, diplomacy can keep peace. Look at WWI which bred WWII
What are you talking about? It was diplomacy that bought Germany enough time to gear up for WWII. Google for "peace in our time" just for a refresher.
WWII which bred the Cold War
Have you actually ever studied any of this? The Cold War was between, essentially, the Soviet Block and everyone else (primarily the US and NATO allies). This wasn't about anything that happened in WWII, it was about the communist totalitarians running the USSR looking to forcibly model the rest of the world in the same fashion. It was the deterrent threat of an unwinnable nuclear war that ended that horrible regime.
And I'm sure if you looked further you could see that there were conflicts which caused WWI
You're completely missing the point. It wasn't previous conflicts (as is, past battles/wars) that "caused" WWI. It was fundamental differences between regional cultures, economies, resources, etc. Physical conflict errupted as a means by which to resolve those differences - because talking about them did not, of course, actually change anything. The entire history of Europe involves thousands of years of territorial, religious, and familial squabbling over turf, power, and resources. War (against the Germans, twice) was what ended that. War with the Soviets never happened, and their system collapsed under its own ponderous, confiscatory, non-productive, Nanny State weight.
Re:Irrelevant (Score:3, Informative)
Appeasement didn't work because Germany was trying to expand its borders, not simply maintain a military. Iran is not trying to expand its rule, Iran just wants to have a larger military force. In fact, treaties from WWI that prevented Germany from having a strong military force was the very reason Hitler could rise to power it was also the thing that pissed off Japan.
Re:V-1 with turbojet (Score:3, Informative)
There have been alot of break throughs.
Engine technology has really taken off since the late 1950s.
F-4E, so a late 1960s aircraft powered by J79-GE-17A - 11,905 lbf (52.9 kN) dry; 17,835 lbf (79.3 kN) with afterburner and weighs 3,850 lbs.
Now F-22 has a F119-PW-100 - 23,500 pound feet of thrust 35,000+ lb with afterburner (156+ kn) weighs 3,900 lbs.
So more then double the thrust at the same weight.
F119 allows for supersonic flight up to Mach 1.35 without afterburner, the J79 required afterburner for supersonic flight.
Materials used in aircraft have also advanced quite a bit, more advanced steels, titanium alloys, composites as well as RAM have increased the durability of the aircraft and reduced the cross-section.
Re:V-1 with turbojet (Score:2, Informative)
Launch booster, to get it up to speed so that when the engine comes on it has enough lift and thrust to fly.
Like on the MGM-1 Matador the engines are - 4,600 lbf (20,000 N) thrust Allison J33-A-37 Turbojet sustainer engine; 55,000 lb (25,000 kg) thust Aerojet General solid fuel rocket, 2 second burn.
So the main engine is classed as a "sustainer" and the thing that comes off is the rocket. Alot of cruise missiles and some drones use that configuration.
Re:V-1 with turbojet (Score:5, Informative)
No.
Turbofan engines, composite construction, FBW, advanced avionics. And F-22 or even F-15 really is in a totaly different class then an Mig-19, F-8, of F-105.
Re:Left out the best part (Score:3, Informative)
On the other hand shooting its own citizens is only an issue when the country happens to be at odds with the US. Compared with other countries in the region, Iran is much more open and free. The elections might be bogus but there is ample discussion and participation when compared to "moderate" countries such as Egypt or Jordan (which sometimes is portrayed as a thriving democracy in the media!!!). Don't even let me get started on the kingdom of horrors (for the latest, check http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGPRE012902010&lang=e&rss=recentnews [amnestyusa.org]) which is also often portrayed as a moderate country progressing towards freedom!!!???
Not really, I've driven those cars (Score:3, Informative)
Generally speaking, while the state of industry in some areas is better than Iraq, Afghanistan and few neighbouring countries, it's nothing remotely comparable to west or even Turkey. Along with improving relations with China, the few barely competitive sectors are being bought one by one by the Chinese, then begin importing and labeling Chinese products to sell domestically as Iranian-made. The incompetence of government, powerful grip of Revolutionary Guards over virtually all industries and their profit at any cost MO as well as population's general ignorance are all contributors.
Iran's auto industry was founded almost the same time as South Korea. Saddens me to look at their global empire and our local disaster.
Karrar is not Farsi OR Persian (Score:5, Informative)
Re:wtf (Score:3, Informative)
#1) Iran has demonstrated (via press release) the equivalent of a model airplane with a camera. They don't have the military data network capability to reliably deliver these anywhere outside their borders. Furthermore, Turkey has one of the largest and most powerful air forces outside of the major superpowers with approximately a thousand aircraft, and over 200 F-16's (mostly modern CCIP variety, and the ability to produce them locally). I wouldn't take Iranian air aggression too seriously.
more importantly it's who your friends are:
#2) Turkey is a NATO member country [nato.int]. That means that if Iran (an external force by NATO definition) attacks Turkey, the most powerful military powers on the planet are obligated to rip Iran a new one...
Re:Left out the best part (Score:5, Informative)
looks more like Tu-143 or Tu-141 [youtube.com]
Re:V-1 with turbojet (Score:3, Informative)
American tanks had better radios, higher speed and better engines.
Better engines... You must be kidding. Sherman tank was gasoline powered and was nicknamed "torch on wheels" for bursting in flames much more easily compared to its diesel counterparts.
Re:V-1 with turbojet (Score:2, Informative)
Better engines in HP to weight ratio, more reliable, easier to build, easier to maintain.
Yes the US used gasoline and it burned when hit, they did that to simplify logistics, similar to how everything the US uses now is running on JP-8 to simplify logistics.
Re:Not really, I've driven those cars (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Left out the best part (Score:2, Informative)
A UAV bomber can be used against enemy aircraft carriers, for example.
No, its too slow to evade surface to air missiles.
Re:V-1 with turbojet (Score:5, Informative)
Shermans were much more commonly nicknamed "Ronsons" for their likelyhood to brew up when hit yet Shermans won the great majority of their fights against the "better designed" Panzers. As a captured german tank commander one said: Each of our Panzers is better than 10 of yours. Unfortunately for us, you always seem to have a dozen to every one of ours.
The reason that the US had so many Shermans is that they froze the design early and ramped up production. The Germans were continually tweaking their designs, making them "better" and more complicated thereby slowing production to a relative crawl.
The one thing most returning tank commanders regretted about the shermans after the war was not the motor & it's gasoline engine but that it was undergunned. Had they produced more Fireflys with the british 17 pounder many fewer US tanks would have been lost as they would not have had to close to short range (& take the neccesary casualties) to finish off the panzers.
Re:Left out the best part (Score:3, Informative)
Building a fighter is no easy task. They would have problems building decent gas turbines. Their only option would be to buy aircraft which is not exactly cheap. How many would they be able to gather? I would guess about a 100 or so. The US could have 100 *flying* at any one time. It would be just a waste of resources. Big and expensive targets to shoot.
The UAVs on the other hand are small, easy to store and move and can be very effective on specific targets such as ships. It would be a good deterrent against ship movements on the Persian Gulf (including tankers).
Seriously?! (Score:3, Informative)
"Iran's industrial sector is more advanced than you might think"
To be clear, you're talking about a country that sits on a giant reserve of oil, but has to import gasoline because they have no refining capacity. Iran's industrial sector is a fucking embarrassment.
You're talking about Tehran, a city whose building codes will be cited as the cause of the worst single humanitarian disaster in history when the big one finally hits NW Iran. 10 million dead is going to be an interesting psychic moment for the Islamic Republic.
Iran's great defense is their mountains. No one wants to fight from valley-to-valley killing thousands of poorly armed soldiers trying to fight a country that's one bad natural disaster away from being the next North Korea or Pakistan.
Even Saddam Hussein was only dumb enough to try it once.
Also (Score:5, Informative)
Air war is as much about intelligence these days as anything else. Long gone are the days of the dog fights. Now, at least if you are talking the US, you engage targets beyond visual range with extremely smart guided missiles.
So if you want to have an airforce that can deal with the US you need four things:
1) Something to counter their AWACS. It might be stealthy jets, it might be good jamming hardware, whatever the case you have to have something to stop that. Otherwise, they'll know ever every single thing in the air is, with pinpoint accuracy. This can be crossdecked directly to new fighters, or simply told to older ones, so their jets can come in without ever turning on a radar. They don't even need them on to fire with AWACS coverage.
2) Something to pick up their planes. The US has a bunch of stealthy craft these days. Even the F/A-18Fs aren't easy to pick up and the F-22As are close to invisible unless the fire, never mind the B2-Bs. You need to have some technology to be able to find those, otherwise they'll pick off your planes, destroy your bases, etc and you won't be able to do anything about it. I don't know if there is such a technology, but you'd need to have some reasonable way to find their craft to kill them
3) Good night fighting ability. The US loves night attacks, because they are really good at it and most people are really bad at it. So you need the equipment and the training to have your jets as effective at night as during the day. Otherwise they'll simply wait until your air cover becomes weak at night and destroy the air bases.
4) Long range, highly effective missiles. Even if you can find their craft and so on you still have to engage them at a long range. The US has long range missiles that are hard to jam, you have to have the same if you are to have a realistic chance in air combat.
Without those four things, the US WILL have air superiority. They'll simply shoot down any fighters, bomb air bases (which can be done with extreme accuracy) and then blast SAM sites.
Re:Left out the best part (Score:4, Informative)
Don't get started on the names of recent Middle East US military operations... they're almost oxymoron.
I personally found the name "Operation Iraqi Liberation" quite straight-forward and descriptive.
Re:You are the worst person in the world. (Score:2, Informative)
"Hezbollah did not appear out of Iran's magic crystal ball. It appeared directly as a result of Israeli and American forces invading Lebanon in 1982." Bullshit. Hezbollah was born from the Shi'ite minority in Lebanon from the civil war they helped start.
"We destroyed the PLO and got Hamas." The PLO imploded through their own ineptitude and inability to strike a deal with Israel. There will always be a cadre of mullahs and imam skulking in their mosques praying for the day to return when they ruled the Muslims instead of government. To place the blame for them on the West is simply silly.
Re:You are the worst person in the world. (Score:5, Informative)
"Hezbollah did not appear out of Iran's magic crystal ball. It appeared directly as a result of Israeli and American forces invading Lebanon in 1982."
Bullshit. Hezbollah was born from the Shi'ite minority in Lebanon from the civil war they helped start.
Hezbollah first emerged in 1982 as a militia in response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, also known as Operation Peace for Galilee, set on resisting the Israeli occupation of Lebanon during the Lebanese civil war. [wikipedia.org]
The PLO imploded through their own ineptitude and inability to strike a deal with Israel.
The governing PLO was viewed as a terrorist organisation by Israel and the U.S. and was constantly undermined and accused of corruption. The people were subject to sanctions. Israel and the U.S. refused to negotiate with the PLO and said there would be no "additional Palestinian state..." (Jordan already being a Palestinian state), and "no change in the status of Judea, Samaria and Gaza other than in accordance with the basic guidelines of the [Israeli] Government". Maybe it is hard to strike a deal when the other side refuses to negotiate?
Re:Limited Value (Score:3, Informative)
They have been doing most of their moves quietly. There is a 'public' flight from Venezuela airline that move between Venezuela, Syria, and Iran. The only problem is that when the publica tries to book a flight, you can not get on it.
Yeah, this hit the 'news' recently, and its a load of twaddle. The actual route is a circular route between Tehran-Beirut-Damascus-Caracus (Iran Air flight 744) and the 'issue' of not being able to book a seat on it was raised by an Israeli intelligence operative.
The problem is, you can certainly book a flight on it, there are even aviation enthusiasts that have published trip reports (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/107603).
Re:Left out the best part (Score:2, Informative)
Put your self in an Iranian Ayatollah's sandals for a moment. The <rational arguments supposedly followed by theocratic muslim rules>
Yeah that'll work. It's not like they ever did something irrational like sending their own (*ahem* their followers') kids into minefields carrying plastic keys to heaven [andrewbrel.com], right ? (you know, like the palestinian practice of throwing kids on the street just before an Israeli jeep just so they can claim the IDF murders children).
I mean muslims have seriously fucked up religion and don't have a history where sanity prevailed, you know, even for a few seconds.