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Verizon, 4G and iPhones

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  • the ultimate question I have, is will Verizon make you use V-cast apps? Will they force you to use Bing? Will they even allow you to use the App Store?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Pojut (1027544)

      From what I understand, V-Cast has been a major point of contention between Apple and Verizon. At least, that's what the rumors are saying...

      That being said, I don't know why Verizon pushes their V-Cast services so hard...out of all the people I know that use Verizon, I don't know anyone that actually uses anything V-Cast has to offer.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Captain Spam (66120)

        That being said, I don't know why Verizon pushes their V-Cast services so hard...out of all the people I know that use Verizon, I don't know anyone that actually uses anything V-Cast has to offer.

        Our logic states that because nobody uses V-Cast and hasn't used it in the X years it's been around, perhaps they should realize their failure, stop pushing it, and try something else, as it's clear nobody wants it.

        Their logic states that because nobody uses V-Cast and hasn't used it in the X years it's been around, it obviously has not been pushed hard enough, as it's clear these customers are misbehaving by not throwing their money at it.

      • I think all carriers hate to be "just" carriers and fear a day in the future when their only product is commoditized and forced into head-head competition with other carriers.

        The strategy seems to have always been with Verizon to restrict phone capabilities to force the use of Verizon products or services (eg, bluetooth restrictions on file sharing, photo downloads via USB, etc).

        I can't believe there has been a time in recent memory when Apple would have ever agreed to crippling their product or surrenderin

      • by numbski (515011)

        I dunno - if I were able to watch NFL games off my handset without having to pay for Sunday Ticket's "To-Go" service, I might do it.

        Too bad I like T-Mobile better than AT&T and Verizon both, and I have Clearwire's iSpot ($25/mo for WiMax) - and the combination of those is *still* cheaper than AT&T, likely to also be true of Verizon.

        There's a reason AT&T adamantly refuses to carrier unlock iPhones. Meanwhile, back at the ranch - I wonder how open Sprint will be to jailbroken/carrier unlocked CDM

        • by Pojut (1027544)

          Given that Sprint is still trying to recover from their PR disaster a few years ago, I'd think they would do whatever it takes to get people signing contracts with them.

      • That's precisely why I hate Verizon. I don't like any carrier-specific services; they're typically not nearly as good and don't have the same support that third party products/services do. It's been a while since I looked at Verizon, but the last time I checked they wanted to charge extra to use their navigation. At the time, Sprint had a pretty sweet deal on a Blackberry curve that had absolutely no restrictions; I could load my own ringtones, share files, MMS, use Google Maps to nagivate, etc.

        Now havin
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by blueg3 (192743)

      Well, they don't make you use V-cast or Bing on Android phones, and they let you use the Marketplace.

      At least, this is true for 2 Verizon Android phones, which is how many I have experience with.

    • Hah? I have a Droid X on Verizon and I can use Google to search, download from the Android Market, and haven't touched V-Cast.
    • by rrossman2 (844318)
      As others have said.. seriously? Have you not played with an Android (or any other smart phone on Verizon?) You can download and install your own apps with or without a store.. Windows Mobile, Android, BB OS, etc.

      I don't know where you read that, or got that idea, but no. Samsung Fantastic: Market works fine. Can install apps from websites fine. Etc Etc.

      My BlackBerry: Used the BB App World just fine. Installed from Websites just fine, etc, etc.

      My old Win Mobile phone: No app store, could install from
      • by tlhIngan (30335)

        As others have said.. seriously? Have you not played with an Android (or any other smart phone on Verizon?) You can download and install your own apps with or without a store.. Windows Mobile, Android, BB OS, etc.

        Carriers are just wising up to the fact that Motorola, HTC, etc., are really still their bitches when it comes to Android phones. As they figure out more and more of Android, the restrictions will be coming down the pipeline. This can be seen as each carrier pre-loads each Android phone with tons o

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by SETIGuy (33768)

          Hell, didn't Verizon announce their own Android app store?

          Yes, it appears as a separate tab in the Marketplace app. You can go there to install all the Vcast apps.

          Who's gonna bet that the Google Marketplace app suddenly disappears from Verizon phones?

          If it does, you go to a Google website and download the Marketplace app. If Verizon prevents that, then we all go find a different carrier when our contracts are up. If the Verizon app store is as closed and controlled as the Apple AppStore, I would leave.

      • It's seriously nice to be able to install my own APKs. The one gripe I have with Android is that there's no built-in file explorer or terminal emulator. I know there are plenty of good third party explorers or terminals, however I wonder why Android didn't just take the extra step and bundle one of their own.
    • by mlts (1038732) *

      I have a Droid X on my desk right by my iPhone. I have yet to use V-cast or Bing, and I have used the Google App Store to purchase a number of apps to make life easier. Android and Verizon have their faults, but access to the App Store isn't one of them.

    • by ceoyoyo (59147)

      If Verizon wants the iPhone they will. There's no way Apple will allow someone to shut out their app store, or even offer a carrier-specific alternative, and a carrier needs Apple to do that.

      With Android, on the other hand, the carriers can do whatever they want. So far they've gone along with Google, mostly.

  • The missing piece (Score:4, Informative)

    by Midnight Thunder (17205) on Thursday October 07, 2010 @11:33AM (#33825208) Homepage Journal

    In many way this is what will allow Verizon to get the iPhone. When the iPhone 5 comes out it is bound to support 4G, so even if Verizon is not an official partner, people will be able to use the phone there.

    I have never been convinced that Apple would want to add CDMA capability, just for Verizon, because of the extra licensing costs and the fact Verizon had already announced that it was putting in place a 4G GSM network. I may still be wrong about Qualcomm-CDMA support being added (CDMA is part of GSM in the form of wave encoding, not protocol), though we will see.

    • by Pojut (1027544)

      If nothing else, adding GSM to a portion of their network will at least open up consumer options regarding which phones they want to use. I have a feeling that unlocked phones may become even more commonplace in this country once they can be used on all the major US carriers.

      • by Altus (1034) on Thursday October 07, 2010 @11:56AM (#33825534) Homepage

        Is it really worth it to buy an unlocked phone though? As it is you get a big discount on a new phone in exchange for your contract. I am not aware of any provider that gives you a monthly discount in exchange for not taking advantage of that discount. If you know of one I would be very interested.

        I think that is what would have to change because as it is, having no contract isn't that much of an advantage, assuming you know you will want to have a phone for the next 2 years and getting a deep discount on a new phone is very attractive.

        • by Pojut (1027544)

          I completely agree...the "New Every Two" deal that Verizon has had going for a while has been enough for me to stay with them (as has their extensive coverage where I live.) Still, however small, there is a market for unlocked devices, and being able to use the same phone on more carriers is certainly a good thing for that market.

          By proxy, I think this would also help out the second-hand market.

    • In many way this is what will allow Verizon to get the iPhone. When the iPhone 5 comes out it is bound to support 4G, so even if Verizon is not an official partner, people will be able to use the phone there.

      That's not exactly clear. Will the phone be unlocked? Will all carriers be using the same frequencies for 4G?

      • That's not exactly clear. Will the phone be unlocked? Will all carriers be using the same frequencies for 4G?

        If you buy your phone contract free elsewhere it should be unlocked. Chances are not all carries will be using the same frequencies, so the phone will need to support them. One other bonus for Verizon, other than getting more phone selection at lower cost, is access to roaming customers.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by UnknowingFool (672806)

      No the missing piece that everyone conveniently forgets is AT&T. They have a deal with Apple that makes the iPhone exclusive to them until 2012. Until that deal is canceled or altered, there is no chance Verizon will get an iPhone in 2011. Even Verizon says that any Verizon iPhone announcement will come from Apple not from them. [pcworld.com]

      Before anyone quips about how they heard it on the internet about the Verizon iPhone 2011 from a reliable source, I suggest that they trace back to the original source of the

      • by Altus (1034)

        Do you have a source for that 2012 contract bit? I have never been able to find a concrete bit of data on how long the exclusive deal between Apple and AT&T is.

        I agree with you that Apple will be the one to announce any change and not verizon, though I wouldnt be surprised if the info gets leaked ahead of time. That said, you wouldn't know a real leak from the constant rumors unless someone looses an iPhone at a bar that has Verizon in the top bar instead of AT&T

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by UnknowingFool (672806)

          Google is your friend [google.com]:
          "at&t iphone exclusivity"

          It was reported back in May 2010 by engadget, mashable, and CNN for starters. The deal was disclosed in relation to a class-action lawsuit about Apple monopoly power and illegal tying.

          • by Altus (1034)

            Ah, that explains it. That was shortly after the last time I bothered to try to hunt down that information.

            After that point I just went out and bought a phone.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Swanktastic (109747)

        As far as I can tell, this assertion is speculation as well. According to court filings, it appears Apple and AT&T signed a 5 year exclusivity contract in 2007 as the iPhone was launching. It was not clear at all at the time how popular the iPhone would become. There's no reason to believe the contract has remained intact for 4 years. That's eons for consumer electronics contracts. It's much more likely that exclusivity, margins, etc. were all renegotiated as each side learned more about how the iP

        • Actually, the original contract is established fact. Speculation is that Apple has re-negotiated the contract so that they can add (or switch to) other carriers. Unless the disclosure included a provision forbidding Apple from making public notice of the change, it would be in apple's corporate interest to announce the availability on new carriers. Why? to prevent people from buying current smartphone stock and save their money (and subsidies) for the new iPhone.

          It's very unlikely that a renegotiation has

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tomz16 (992375)

      In many way this is what will allow Verizon to get the iPhone. When the iPhone 5 comes out it is bound to support 4G, so even if Verizon is not an official partner, people will be able to use the phone there.

      Don't be so sure. IIRC, verizon is using the sim-less variant of LTE. So if the MEID isn't in the database the phone isn't getting on the network without committing a felony! The mere existence of a CDMA iphone doesn't mean that it will be easy to get on Verizon.

      I have never been convinced that Apple would want to add CDMA capability, just for Verizon, because of the extra licensing costs and the fact Verizon had already announced that it was putting in place a 4G GSM network. I may still be wrong about Qualcomm-CDMA support being added (CDMA is part of GSM in the form of wave encoding, not protocol), though we will see.

      Again, don't be so sure. A CDMA-less verizon phone is pretty much a paperweight for the forseeable decade. LTE rollout will be *very* limited initially (mostly large markets). Also, to correct you, GSM is TDMA. Modern 3G GSM data (e.g. HSDPA)

    • by Andy Dodd (701)

      Rumor has it they're possibly switching to Qualcomm baseband processor chipsets for the iPhone 5 for a variety of reasons. Note that Qualcomm does produce GSM/UMTS baseband chips, in fact a large portion of the GSM smartphone market uses various Qualcomm MSM silicon.

      Once you're using Qualcomm MSM silicon for your GSM/UMTS solution, it's not too difficult to swap in the CDMA2000 version of that chip and get Sprint/Verizon support. Look at the large number of HTC GSM phones that have CDMA variants. (As to

  • too little too late (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SoupGuru (723634) on Thursday October 07, 2010 @11:37AM (#33825282)
    Tons of people got tired of waiting for the iPhone on Verizon and had to settle for an Android phone only figure out, "Hey, this Android stuff is actually pretty cool!" and now have no desire for an iPhone. So Apple might get more of the currently-smartphoneless-on-Verizon demographic when their contracts allow them to upgrade, but I think they've lost every single one that's bought into Android up to this point.
    • by Pojut (1027544)

      The one advantage iPhones still have over Android phones would be gaming. There are some great emulators available for Android, but other than that, it has nothing on the iPhone when it comes to gaming.

      That being said, excluding gaming, it's Android for me all the way.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Darkness404 (1287218)
        Sure, but touch-screen devices suck for gaming no matter what you are running on them. Granted, tethering a Bluetooth controller like a Wii-Remote with a Classic Controller attached makes gaming downright awesome on both platforms.

        And quite honestly, I'd rather play a good retro game than play any more of the iPhone's half-baked "games".
        • by Pojut (1027544)

          Sure, but touch-screen devices suck for gaming no matter what you are running on them.

          Agreed (except for tower defense games...those were made for a finger). I was referring more to the quantity and quality of games available in the Apple app store compared to the Android app store.

          And quite honestly, I'd rather play a good retro game than play any more of the iPhone's half-baked "games".

          There are some really good ones available for the iPhone. There are a couple of good ones for Android as well (Zenonia, Stranded, Pirates and Traders...), but overall there are definitely more quality titles available for the iPhone.

          I do love how there are emulators (and even rom packs, although you can still us

    • Tons of people got tired of waiting for the iPhone on Verizon...

      That's certainly true enough, but that must not be the only reason. For instance, one of the Galaxy Suite phones on AT&T, the AT&T Captivate, has been selling very well against the iPhone. So being on AT&T can not be considered the only reason people are making the switch to Android anymore.

      I wonder if the AT&T Captivate is selling for the same price AT&T is selling the iPhone for?

      Overall, and despite their initial problems with gps (which I don't they've sorted out yet), the Galaxy Su

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jellomizer (103300)

      They are both emerging markets. You are making the assumption that the market is already saturated.

      Just like at AT&T you will get iPhone customers and Android Customers there will be new users on both. Some will be unhappy with each other and switch.

      There is no point in this religious zeal over iPhone vs. Android. And what will ultimately happen. iPhone will be the biggest in Market share for devices, Android will be the largest market share in total numbers. Meaning the iPhone will be the Top Selling

  • by aristotle-dude (626586) on Thursday October 07, 2010 @11:43AM (#33825376)

    Ever notice that beyond the bold carrier emblems on the phones themselves that virtually all smartphones sold on Verizon are advertised by Verizon instead of the handset makers themselves? Contrast that with the iPhone which might be sold exclusively in the US on AT&T but it is marketed by Apple directly and there are no AT&T (or other carriers for that matter) logos anywhere to be found on the phone or in the manuals.

    Those other handset makers have allowed themselves to be relegated OEMs for the carriers while Apple markets directly to the consumer and only used the carriers as subsidized sales channels. This means that Apple manufactures one model (save for the Chinese no-Wifi model) for use worldwide and only enters IMEIs into their database to as sim LOCKED for any carrier that requests it. Except for different manuals and charger models, the iPhone you buy in the US/Canada or the UK only differ in what is included in the box and the phone itself is the same production run.

    Even assuming that Verizon agreed to no branding on the phone either physically or in software/logo form, Apple would have to either create a special run for Verizon (CDMA) or raise the costs for every iPhone manufactured by switching to a CDMA/GSM model for no added benefit for people living outside of the US.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ceejayoz (567949)

      Ever notice that beyond the bold carrier emblems on the phones themselves that virtually all smartphones sold on Verizon are advertised by Verizon instead of the handset makers themselves? Contrast that with the iPhone which might be sold exclusively in the US on AT&T but it is marketed by Apple directly and there are no AT&T (or other carriers for that matter) logos anywhere to be found on the phone or in the manuals.

      Other AT&T phones have AT&T branding all over them, just like the other cell phone networks. I'd imagine AT&T wanted the iPhone branded with their logo, but that they got shot down. I also suspect Apple wouldn't give on that issue in talks with Verizon.

    • by Bassman59 (519820)

      Ever notice that beyond the bold carrier emblems on the phones themselves that virtually all smartphones sold on Verizon are advertised by Verizon instead of the handset makers themselves? Contrast that with the iPhone which might be sold exclusively in the US on AT&T but it is marketed by Apple directly and there are no AT&T (or other carriers for that matter) logos anywhere to be found on the phone or in the manuals.

      I see your point, and I agree with it, but if you look in the upper-left corner of an iPhone by the signal-strength meter (please, enough with the idiot "how many bars?" crap), you'll see the magic letters "AT&T."

    • by WeirdKid (260577)

      You're mostly right with your reasoning, but I don't think that will stop it from happening.

      The original discussions between Apple and Verizon broke down because Verizon wasn't willing to give "ownership" of the customer to Apple. Verizon leverages (or used to leverage) its channel to nickel and dime its subscribers (e.g. disable bluetooth file browsing so they can charge you 25 cents to export a photo via an email to yourself or extort a monthly PictureMail package from you). Apple wanted none of that; t

  • It doesn't meet the requirements for 4G.
  • by Iphtashu Fitz (263795) on Thursday October 07, 2010 @11:48AM (#33825430)

    I'll just cut and paste a comment I made about this on another site:

    How many years have they been predicting this, and how many times have those predictions failed to come true? I used to say that I won't believe this until Verizon or Apple themselves announce it. I'm now at the point where I won't believe it until I'm actually holding a Verizon iPhone in my hand, and even then I'll be dubious.

    • That was the case with the iPad. It was predicted since the Newton, and never came to fruition until 2010. If you predict something even remotely likely for long enough, it's bound to come true.

      • by Pojut (1027544)

        If you predict something even remotely likely for long enough, it's bound to come true.

        You mean like Iraq having weapons of mass destru-

        **NO CARRIER**

  • I'm all for high-speed mobile Internet, but will they continue with their abysmally low usage caps?

    WOOT! I can watch a full HD movie, streaming it almost in real-time... well, most of it anyway: capped out before the climax? Ahh well, I can finish it once my billing cycle rolls back around.

    Yes, I know it's not quite that bad, but you get the point: at the same time all sorts of ISPs and mobile network operators are increasing speeds and falling all over themselves to tell you how quickly you can do stuff, t

  • GSM and CDMA are fine for making phone calls. If Verizon had 4G, they could offer regular internet service faster than many LECs and cable companies are able/willing to offer.

  • Will those of us slumming on AT&T be able to switch to Verizon with the iPhone we currently have?
  • Even if it was my "new every 2" year, I wouldn't be getting an iPhone. I like to play classic games on console emulators on my phone. I like to be able to visit flash based web sites when necessary. I also like to be able to transfer things back and forth over USB and bluetooth without worrying about whether I'm allowed to do that. I don't buy my music from iTunes. I like free tethering.

    Of course Verizon will love the iPhone, because the whole concept fits in with their control freak persona.

  • Assuming this is true, it'll be interesting to see who will back down when it comes to customising the handset. You don't need me to tell you that Verizon are notoriously bad at modifying a device to suit their ends and that Apple are unrepentant that the experience of the iPhone should not be compromised by the whims of a carrier.

    However Apple's growth in the US isn't really doing so well as it used to and any meaningful increase in market share will need to come from new operators. Now you could argue tha

  • If I wanted an iPhone, I would have gotten one. Oh, wait, I did, because I write software for them.

    But I use an Android phone as my personal device because it does more. And considering how popular Android devices have become, even among those who are not tech-savvy, means that the platform is going to be around for a long time.

  • I live in Houston in an apartment complex a bit outside of the downtown areas. My complex has an exclusive contract with a small cable provider, for which they are the only source of landline internet to the apartment. Their rates are about average, about $45 for 3 Mbps down / 0.3 Mbps up, discounts for cable bundling. I was a bit disappointed, though, that they didn't have an option to pay extra for a higher-speed package.

    Houston already has access to WiMax 4G internet coverage from Spring/Clear. Th
  • Everyone hears CDMA iPhone and translates it in their brains as, "oh, must be on Verizon."

    Verizon right now isn't hurting like...

    Sprint is.

    Sprint's more willing to make the sweetheart deal to bring Apple on board.

    Sprint's hurting. They *need* the iPhone.

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