Verizon, 4G and iPhones 303
cgriffin21 writes "Verizon plans to launch its 4G LTE network in 38 major U.S. metropolitan areas by year's end, in an ambitious rollout that will also drape high-speed mobile broadband coverage over 60 airports." Not coincidentally, everyone and their brother is talking about
iPhone on Verizon in 2011, and what that
means to Android.
Question (Score:2)
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From what I understand, V-Cast has been a major point of contention between Apple and Verizon. At least, that's what the rumors are saying...
That being said, I don't know why Verizon pushes their V-Cast services so hard...out of all the people I know that use Verizon, I don't know anyone that actually uses anything V-Cast has to offer.
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That being said, I don't know why Verizon pushes their V-Cast services so hard...out of all the people I know that use Verizon, I don't know anyone that actually uses anything V-Cast has to offer.
Our logic states that because nobody uses V-Cast and hasn't used it in the X years it's been around, perhaps they should realize their failure, stop pushing it, and try something else, as it's clear nobody wants it.
Their logic states that because nobody uses V-Cast and hasn't used it in the X years it's been around, it obviously has not been pushed hard enough, as it's clear these customers are misbehaving by not throwing their money at it.
Carrier fear of commoditization? (Score:2)
I think all carriers hate to be "just" carriers and fear a day in the future when their only product is commoditized and forced into head-head competition with other carriers.
The strategy seems to have always been with Verizon to restrict phone capabilities to force the use of Verizon products or services (eg, bluetooth restrictions on file sharing, photo downloads via USB, etc).
I can't believe there has been a time in recent memory when Apple would have ever agreed to crippling their product or surrenderin
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I dunno - if I were able to watch NFL games off my handset without having to pay for Sunday Ticket's "To-Go" service, I might do it.
Too bad I like T-Mobile better than AT&T and Verizon both, and I have Clearwire's iSpot ($25/mo for WiMax) - and the combination of those is *still* cheaper than AT&T, likely to also be true of Verizon.
There's a reason AT&T adamantly refuses to carrier unlock iPhones. Meanwhile, back at the ranch - I wonder how open Sprint will be to jailbroken/carrier unlocked CDM
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Given that Sprint is still trying to recover from their PR disaster a few years ago, I'd think they would do whatever it takes to get people signing contracts with them.
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Now havin
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Well, they don't make you use V-cast or Bing on Android phones, and they let you use the Marketplace.
At least, this is true for 2 Verizon Android phones, which is how many I have experience with.
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I don't know where you read that, or got that idea, but no. Samsung Fantastic: Market works fine. Can install apps from websites fine. Etc Etc.
My BlackBerry: Used the BB App World just fine. Installed from Websites just fine, etc, etc.
My old Win Mobile phone: No app store, could install from
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Carriers are just wising up to the fact that Motorola, HTC, etc., are really still their bitches when it comes to Android phones. As they figure out more and more of Android, the restrictions will be coming down the pipeline. This can be seen as each carrier pre-loads each Android phone with tons o
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Hell, didn't Verizon announce their own Android app store?
Yes, it appears as a separate tab in the Marketplace app. You can go there to install all the Vcast apps.
Who's gonna bet that the Google Marketplace app suddenly disappears from Verizon phones?
If it does, you go to a Google website and download the Marketplace app. If Verizon prevents that, then we all go find a different carrier when our contracts are up. If the Verizon app store is as closed and controlled as the Apple AppStore, I would leave.
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I have a Droid X on my desk right by my iPhone. I have yet to use V-cast or Bing, and I have used the Google App Store to purchase a number of apps to make life easier. Android and Verizon have their faults, but access to the App Store isn't one of them.
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If Verizon wants the iPhone they will. There's no way Apple will allow someone to shut out their app store, or even offer a carrier-specific alternative, and a carrier needs Apple to do that.
With Android, on the other hand, the carriers can do whatever they want. So far they've gone along with Google, mostly.
The missing piece (Score:4, Informative)
In many way this is what will allow Verizon to get the iPhone. When the iPhone 5 comes out it is bound to support 4G, so even if Verizon is not an official partner, people will be able to use the phone there.
I have never been convinced that Apple would want to add CDMA capability, just for Verizon, because of the extra licensing costs and the fact Verizon had already announced that it was putting in place a 4G GSM network. I may still be wrong about Qualcomm-CDMA support being added (CDMA is part of GSM in the form of wave encoding, not protocol), though we will see.
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If nothing else, adding GSM to a portion of their network will at least open up consumer options regarding which phones they want to use. I have a feeling that unlocked phones may become even more commonplace in this country once they can be used on all the major US carriers.
Re:The missing piece (Score:4, Insightful)
Is it really worth it to buy an unlocked phone though? As it is you get a big discount on a new phone in exchange for your contract. I am not aware of any provider that gives you a monthly discount in exchange for not taking advantage of that discount. If you know of one I would be very interested.
I think that is what would have to change because as it is, having no contract isn't that much of an advantage, assuming you know you will want to have a phone for the next 2 years and getting a deep discount on a new phone is very attractive.
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I completely agree...the "New Every Two" deal that Verizon has had going for a while has been enough for me to stay with them (as has their extensive coverage where I live.) Still, however small, there is a market for unlocked devices, and being able to use the same phone on more carriers is certainly a good thing for that market.
By proxy, I think this would also help out the second-hand market.
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But we actually have fracturing not unification happening in the US.
T-mobile and AT&T used to have compatible networks, now though, to get 3G on T-mobile it needs to be a T-mobile phone.
To get unified head to head competition, you, the consumer needs to complain loudly to the FCC to do whatever they need to do to get everyone access to the same frequency bands on GSM/HSPA. WIthout consumer/citizen pressure, it will never happen.
Canada used to be fractured between GSM and CDMA as well but enough pressure was brought to bear that the CDMA carrier ended up rolling out HSPA+ to compete directly with the established GSM/HSPA carriers and now people in Canada can choose Rogers, Fido (city focuse
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In many way this is what will allow Verizon to get the iPhone. When the iPhone 5 comes out it is bound to support 4G, so even if Verizon is not an official partner, people will be able to use the phone there.
That's not exactly clear. Will the phone be unlocked? Will all carriers be using the same frequencies for 4G?
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That's not exactly clear. Will the phone be unlocked? Will all carriers be using the same frequencies for 4G?
If you buy your phone contract free elsewhere it should be unlocked. Chances are not all carries will be using the same frequencies, so the phone will need to support them. One other bonus for Verizon, other than getting more phone selection at lower cost, is access to roaming customers.
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No the missing piece that everyone conveniently forgets is AT&T. They have a deal with Apple that makes the iPhone exclusive to them until 2012. Until that deal is canceled or altered, there is no chance Verizon will get an iPhone in 2011. Even Verizon says that any Verizon iPhone announcement will come from Apple not from them. [pcworld.com]
Before anyone quips about how they heard it on the internet about the Verizon iPhone 2011 from a reliable source, I suggest that they trace back to the original source of the
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Do you have a source for that 2012 contract bit? I have never been able to find a concrete bit of data on how long the exclusive deal between Apple and AT&T is.
I agree with you that Apple will be the one to announce any change and not verizon, though I wouldnt be surprised if the info gets leaked ahead of time. That said, you wouldn't know a real leak from the constant rumors unless someone looses an iPhone at a bar that has Verizon in the top bar instead of AT&T
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Google is your friend [google.com]:
"at&t iphone exclusivity"
It was reported back in May 2010 by engadget, mashable, and CNN for starters. The deal was disclosed in relation to a class-action lawsuit about Apple monopoly power and illegal tying.
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Ah, that explains it. That was shortly after the last time I bothered to try to hunt down that information.
After that point I just went out and bought a phone.
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Apparently, you can't either
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As far as I can tell, this assertion is speculation as well. According to court filings, it appears Apple and AT&T signed a 5 year exclusivity contract in 2007 as the iPhone was launching. It was not clear at all at the time how popular the iPhone would become. There's no reason to believe the contract has remained intact for 4 years. That's eons for consumer electronics contracts. It's much more likely that exclusivity, margins, etc. were all renegotiated as each side learned more about how the iP
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Actually, the original contract is established fact. Speculation is that Apple has re-negotiated the contract so that they can add (or switch to) other carriers. Unless the disclosure included a provision forbidding Apple from making public notice of the change, it would be in apple's corporate interest to announce the availability on new carriers. Why? to prevent people from buying current smartphone stock and save their money (and subsidies) for the new iPhone.
It's very unlikely that a renegotiation has
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With only one more year, it'd be pretty easy for Apple to renegotiate. They could offer ATT better terms going forward, or alternatively not deal with them at all later if they don't cooperate. That contract doesn't have a lot of power at this point.
A contract is still a contract. They could extend it and negotiate a new contract, but it doesn't do Apple or AT&T a lot of good to alter the original terms of it at this point. And if they did, you'd hear it from Apple or AT&T first, not some analyst. They're only guessing at best. And I bet if you told the analyst about the deal, he/she would have not known about it.
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In many way this is what will allow Verizon to get the iPhone. When the iPhone 5 comes out it is bound to support 4G, so even if Verizon is not an official partner, people will be able to use the phone there.
Don't be so sure. IIRC, verizon is using the sim-less variant of LTE. So if the MEID isn't in the database the phone isn't getting on the network without committing a felony! The mere existence of a CDMA iphone doesn't mean that it will be easy to get on Verizon.
I have never been convinced that Apple would want to add CDMA capability, just for Verizon, because of the extra licensing costs and the fact Verizon had already announced that it was putting in place a 4G GSM network. I may still be wrong about Qualcomm-CDMA support being added (CDMA is part of GSM in the form of wave encoding, not protocol), though we will see.
Again, don't be so sure. A CDMA-less verizon phone is pretty much a paperweight for the forseeable decade. LTE rollout will be *very* limited initially (mostly large markets). Also, to correct you, GSM is TDMA. Modern 3G GSM data (e.g. HSDPA)
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Rumor has it they're possibly switching to Qualcomm baseband processor chipsets for the iPhone 5 for a variety of reasons. Note that Qualcomm does produce GSM/UMTS baseband chips, in fact a large portion of the GSM smartphone market uses various Qualcomm MSM silicon.
Once you're using Qualcomm MSM silicon for your GSM/UMTS solution, it's not too difficult to swap in the CDMA2000 version of that chip and get Sprint/Verizon support. Look at the large number of HTC GSM phones that have CDMA variants. (As to
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There is no such thing as 4G GSM. 4G is LTE, which is OFDMA (and based on CDMA). GSM is ancient 2G TDMA. Verizon will be CDMA (3G) and LTE (4G). Although it will use a SIM card, it will most definitely not use GSM.
Hey Verizon drone/employee, stop with the FUD. HSPA is marketed as as 3G GSM in many markets. It uses W-CDMA for an air interface but the core network can be shared with established 2G (EDGE). W-CDMA is not directly based on CDMA2000 (used by Sprint/Verizon) but only shares a similar air interface strategy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution [wikipedia.org]
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There is no such thing as 4G GSM. 4G is LTE, which is OFDMA (and based on CDMA). GSM is ancient 2G TDMA. Verizon will be CDMA (3G) and LTE (4G). Although it will use a SIM card, it will most definitely not use GSM.
You are mixing concepts and also letting yourself get lost in the marketing. GSM is a technology umbrella governed by the GSM Association [gsmworld.com]. Traditionally when people talk about CDMA at a high level they are talking about Qualcomm CDMA, which is a protocol for mobile communication, which also happen
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IIRC, 4G is technically voice and data on the same stack. The dedicated radio needed for voice is replaced by VoIP.
Of course, this brings in some issues: Phones need to do QoS so if someone is yapping on the device while doing a hefty torrent, the conversation doesn't get interrupted.
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too little too late (Score:5, Interesting)
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The one advantage iPhones still have over Android phones would be gaming. There are some great emulators available for Android, but other than that, it has nothing on the iPhone when it comes to gaming.
That being said, excluding gaming, it's Android for me all the way.
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And quite honestly, I'd rather play a good retro game than play any more of the iPhone's half-baked "games".
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Sure, but touch-screen devices suck for gaming no matter what you are running on them.
Agreed (except for tower defense games...those were made for a finger). I was referring more to the quantity and quality of games available in the Apple app store compared to the Android app store.
And quite honestly, I'd rather play a good retro game than play any more of the iPhone's half-baked "games".
There are some really good ones available for the iPhone. There are a couple of good ones for Android as well (Zenonia, Stranded, Pirates and Traders...), but overall there are definitely more quality titles available for the iPhone.
I do love how there are emulators (and even rom packs, although you can still us
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Tons of people got tired of waiting for the iPhone on Verizon...
That's certainly true enough, but that must not be the only reason. For instance, one of the Galaxy Suite phones on AT&T, the AT&T Captivate, has been selling very well against the iPhone. So being on AT&T can not be considered the only reason people are making the switch to Android anymore.
I wonder if the AT&T Captivate is selling for the same price AT&T is selling the iPhone for?
Overall, and despite their initial problems with gps (which I don't they've sorted out yet), the Galaxy Su
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They are both emerging markets. You are making the assumption that the market is already saturated.
Just like at AT&T you will get iPhone customers and Android Customers there will be new users on both. Some will be unhappy with each other and switch.
There is no point in this religious zeal over iPhone vs. Android. And what will ultimately happen. iPhone will be the biggest in Market share for devices, Android will be the largest market share in total numbers. Meaning the iPhone will be the Top Selling
Not going to happen. Here's why. (Score:4, Insightful)
Ever notice that beyond the bold carrier emblems on the phones themselves that virtually all smartphones sold on Verizon are advertised by Verizon instead of the handset makers themselves? Contrast that with the iPhone which might be sold exclusively in the US on AT&T but it is marketed by Apple directly and there are no AT&T (or other carriers for that matter) logos anywhere to be found on the phone or in the manuals.
Those other handset makers have allowed themselves to be relegated OEMs for the carriers while Apple markets directly to the consumer and only used the carriers as subsidized sales channels. This means that Apple manufactures one model (save for the Chinese no-Wifi model) for use worldwide and only enters IMEIs into their database to as sim LOCKED for any carrier that requests it. Except for different manuals and charger models, the iPhone you buy in the US/Canada or the UK only differ in what is included in the box and the phone itself is the same production run.
Even assuming that Verizon agreed to no branding on the phone either physically or in software/logo form, Apple would have to either create a special run for Verizon (CDMA) or raise the costs for every iPhone manufactured by switching to a CDMA/GSM model for no added benefit for people living outside of the US.
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Ever notice that beyond the bold carrier emblems on the phones themselves that virtually all smartphones sold on Verizon are advertised by Verizon instead of the handset makers themselves? Contrast that with the iPhone which might be sold exclusively in the US on AT&T but it is marketed by Apple directly and there are no AT&T (or other carriers for that matter) logos anywhere to be found on the phone or in the manuals.
Other AT&T phones have AT&T branding all over them, just like the other cell phone networks. I'd imagine AT&T wanted the iPhone branded with their logo, but that they got shot down. I also suspect Apple wouldn't give on that issue in talks with Verizon.
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Ever notice that beyond the bold carrier emblems on the phones themselves that virtually all smartphones sold on Verizon are advertised by Verizon instead of the handset makers themselves? Contrast that with the iPhone which might be sold exclusively in the US on AT&T but it is marketed by Apple directly and there are no AT&T (or other carriers for that matter) logos anywhere to be found on the phone or in the manuals.
I see your point, and I agree with it, but if you look in the upper-left corner of an iPhone by the signal-strength meter (please, enough with the idiot "how many bars?" crap), you'll see the magic letters "AT&T."
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You're mostly right with your reasoning, but I don't think that will stop it from happening.
The original discussions between Apple and Verizon broke down because Verizon wasn't willing to give "ownership" of the customer to Apple. Verizon leverages (or used to leverage) its channel to nickel and dime its subscribers (e.g. disable bluetooth file browsing so they can charge you 25 cents to export a photo via an email to yourself or extort a monthly PictureMail package from you). Apple wanted none of that; t
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Apple is already making a CDMA iPhone, and it's on Verizon. Rolls out in Q1. Try to keep up.
Yeah, sure, right.
LTE != 4G (Score:2)
On the iPhone coming to Verizon (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll just cut and paste a comment I made about this on another site:
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That was the case with the iPad. It was predicted since the Newton, and never came to fruition until 2010. If you predict something even remotely likely for long enough, it's bound to come true.
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If you predict something even remotely likely for long enough, it's bound to come true.
You mean like Iraq having weapons of mass destru-
**NO CARRIER**
High speed still with low usage caps? (Score:2, Informative)
I'm all for high-speed mobile Internet, but will they continue with their abysmally low usage caps?
WOOT! I can watch a full HD movie, streaming it almost in real-time... well, most of it anyway: capped out before the climax? Ahh well, I can finish it once my billing cycle rolls back around.
Yes, I know it's not quite that bad, but you get the point: at the same time all sorts of ISPs and mobile network operators are increasing speeds and falling all over themselves to tell you how quickly you can do stuff, t
I don't care about phones. (Score:2)
GSM and CDMA are fine for making phone calls. If Verizon had 4G, they could offer regular internet service faster than many LECs and cable companies are able/willing to offer.
Question (Score:2)
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No. Absolutely not.
Verizon iPhone (Score:2)
Even if it was my "new every 2" year, I wouldn't be getting an iPhone. I like to play classic games on console emulators on my phone. I like to be able to visit flash based web sites when necessary. I also like to be able to transfer things back and forth over USB and bluetooth without worrying about whether I'm allowed to do that. I don't buy my music from iTunes. I like free tethering.
Of course Verizon will love the iPhone, because the whole concept fits in with their control freak persona.
Who will back down? (Score:2)
Assuming this is true, it'll be interesting to see who will back down when it comes to customising the handset. You don't need me to tell you that Verizon are notoriously bad at modifying a device to suit their ends and that Apple are unrepentant that the experience of the iPhone should not be compromised by the whims of a carrier.
However Apple's growth in the US isn't really doing so well as it used to and any meaningful increase in market share will need to come from new operators. Now you could argue tha
It means nothing to Android (Score:2)
If I wanted an iPhone, I would have gotten one. Oh, wait, I did, because I write software for them.
But I use an Android phone as my personal device because it does more. And considering how popular Android devices have become, even among those who are not tech-savvy, means that the platform is going to be around for a long time.
A note on speeds (Score:2)
Houston already has access to WiMax 4G internet coverage from Spring/Clear. Th
Wrong carrier. (Score:2)
Everyone hears CDMA iPhone and translates it in their brains as, "oh, must be on Verizon."
Verizon right now isn't hurting like...
Sprint is.
Sprint's more willing to make the sweetheart deal to bring Apple on board.
Sprint's hurting. They *need* the iPhone.
Nothing? (Score:4, Insightful)
"If I wanted an iPhone, I would have gotten one."
I, I, I.
How something impacts Android is completely dependent on how it would affect you? There may be a few people out there who decided to go with Android because they didn't want to switch to AT&T.
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Android is the fastest selling smartphone OS, there are any number of Android options and lots of people who talk up Androids to their friends and families (myself included). If Android hasn't created a strong enough following to survive (and thrive) with the iPhone as real competition (it never was with it being tied to ATT in my opinion) then it deserves to die, and I say that as a die-hard Android fan. So... maybe not nothing, but it shouldn't really effect Android long term if Android is as serious a
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There are more people who will ditch AT&T for Verizon than there are people who will ditch Android for iPhone, for the simple fact that the U.S. isn't the whole world. Also, some people dislike the need for going through a goddamn 12 step program just to change the ringtone. For a few things where there's money involved for Apple, the iPhone is remarkably user hostile.
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There are more people who will ditch AT&T for Verizon than there are people who will ditch Android for iPhone, for the simple fact that the U.S. isn't the whole world. Also, some people dislike the need for going through a goddamn 12 step program just to change the ringtone. For a few things where there's money involved for Apple, the iPhone is remarkably user hostile.
12 step?
Settings > Sounds > Ringtones > select ringtone from list and exit.
On android:
Settings > Sounds and Display > Phone Ringtone > select ringtone from list > OK > now exit.
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You forgot making the ringtone available first: The iPhone is this [ehow.com] user friendly.
Frankly, I find it astonishing that people can pretend Apple "just works", when in reality you have to go through this kind of nonsense for even the simplest of tasks.
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I just googled it and top link said you are wrong:
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/08/12/analysts.say.android.passing.ios.near.blackberry/ [electronista.com]
http://gorumors.com/crunchies/how-many-smartphones-does-nokia-sell-worldwide/ [gorumors.com]
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True. Android has almost caught up with the iPhone in half the time.
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What I mean is all the people that wanted a true smartphone got one in the past year - they got a Droid. Few will want to pay again to get an iPhone. That leaves you with the people whose contracts are almost up and haven't upgraded. Around here (Boston), that's a fairly small number. I see almost as many Droid phones as I do iPhones.
Oh, and the talk-and-surf works when you're on wifi. I don't know if LTE lets you do that.
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>> That leaves you with the people whose contracts are almost up and haven't upgraded. Around here (Boston), that's a fairly small number
Bahaha. What, did you conduct a survey of the people of Boston?
"My 3 friends don't plan on upgrading so therefore no one in Boston is planning to upgrade".
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What I mean is all the people that wanted a true smartphone got one in the past year - they got a Droid. Few will want to pay again to get an iPhone.
Disregard my previous question to you, I now have the answer. You are insane.
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And yet a single phone model on a single carrier still takes a huge slice of the pie which Android has only recently (this year) managed to catch up with, and only by being offered by EVERY carrier.
Exactly. In terms of sales opportunities, Android has had a clear advantage over iPhone for well over a year now, and even with that, Android is only now reaching parity in terms of new units sold.
Currently, the only things Android has going for it over iPhone that the average consumer truly cares about are carrier choice and price. This story is about alleviating one of those things. As for price, being more expensive than some MP3 players didn't seem to harm the iPod much. Once people can truly chose betw
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DroidX is locked down
Says who? You can root it, remove the bloatware and generally do whatever the hell you want with it if you are inclined to do so.
You can also jailbreak an iPhone, yet we* complain constantly about how locked down the iPhone is.
*The collective /. we
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Agreed. AT&T is Southwest Bell with lipstick. They had the worst customer service, lousiest coverage, and weakest share. Apple needed to have a CDMA phone along with its GSM offering. They could have covered all bases, but had to capitulate to the fact that AT&T and most of the world is GSM. So they made their choice.
I stuck with Verizon not because of any love whatsoever, rather they have coverage and a decently designed data coverage network. At the top are the same bunch of monopolistic-minded gr
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IOW, major carriers were afraid of the iphone when it was first being developed because it would be a data hog, and ATT only agreed to it if it was an exclusive deal.
No I don't remember where I heard this from but it was years ago. Now, it's a moot point because carriers have upgraded (well, maybe not ATT yet, lol)
Anyone else hear this? For me, I haven't made
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For all their flaws, Sprint tends to be one of the more open carriers. Also, while they don't seem to make as much noise, if you're interested in openess don't overlook Palm. While their entire OS isn't Open Source, it is still based on Linux so those parts are open source. Of course, Android is the same way... the core OS may be open source, but the Google apps, MFG additions, and carrier additions typically aren't. Also, Palm doesn't make you hack your phone to get root access. Want root access, put it in
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That's like saying the Chateau Latour wines had the chance to dominate the market if only they were sold in more restaurants.
1) They're hideously expensive
2) Although they're good, many others are also good, quite a few at a much lower price.
3) Even if they were the best in the world, they're not to everyone's taste.
4) Most people just want to get sloshed.
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Your fantasy about the iPhone dominating the market is worse.
Re:Nothing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not too long ago Apple didn't have one of the most popular phones on the market. Instead, they were the underdog. The ROKR was an epic failure and no one really knew if Apple could pull off a phone.
But they went shopping around anyway, more or less 'begging' to let someone take their yet un announced product. Not only that, they were asking the network to NOT have total control of the device. (These were the days when Verizon would cripple a phone to turn a quick $.50 making you send a photo on their network). In addition to that they were asking them to upgrade their servers, spend money, so that it could do this fancy thing called 'Visual Voicemail.' In return for all of this, Apple would sign a exclusivity contract with said network.
Sprint* said thank you and respectfully declined. AT&T also declined. Verizon's CEO went above declining and more or less gave Jobs the finger. Cingular said 'what the heck' and let Apple in.
AT&T bought Cingular, honored the contract and here we are today.
It was a HUGE gamble. It paid off, but Apple had never made a phone before. There was no "AppStore". The iPod Touch didn't exist. iTunes Music store existed, but wasn't a dominant force in the marketplace and still DRM protected.
But Apple didn't "blow" anything. No one predicted the iPhone's success, not even Apple. AT&T is clinging to that contract like a liferaft, because they know the second it is up Verizon is going to bend over backwards to accomodate the iPhone.
* All gathered from internet hearsay over the years.
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>> 1) We're already locked in 1-2 year contracts so we're not going to pay $500 for a new phone
Uhh.. There is a constant swarm of people with contracts expiring. What a stupid thing to say.
>> 2) Verizon and Apple will likely not give many price breaks
This makes no sense. Of course there will be huge incentives for contracts, just like with any other phone.
>> 3) AT&T users may jump ship, but that's only to Verizon's benefit
That's half the equation, yes. The other half is verizon cus
Re:Nothing? (Score:4, Informative)
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Well...
A) I'm not sure Apple's goal is to completely dominate the phone market.
B) I'm not sure they could have gotten a real start in the cell phone market without an exclusivity deal. Supposedly the AT&T exclusivity was the price Apple paid for making the device the way they wanted, carrier support for visual voicemail, and unlimited data plans.
C) iPhones range between $99 and $299, so I don't know where you're getting the $500 price.
D) I know many people who have said that they really really want
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If I wanted an iPhone, I would have gotten one. But since I wanted to write my own apps, Android was a much more attractive platform.
Rather, it means nothing to Android users who are also programmers/developers. Perhaps you haven't talked to a mobile-tech layperson in a while. Many customers are dying for an iPhone to become available on their networks. There's still a large chunk of users who would rather wait than switch carriers.
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I'm dying for a good android phone that doesn't cost so much.. all the used ones on ebay are pricy. I've been hunting for a good android phone every other day for two weeks now. I consider myself a tech-person but i don't have gobs of money to spend on toys.. i usually get them used or just build them. Unfortunately hand-held things are horrible things to try building yourself.. very clunky.
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And I'm sure you are not representative of the average iPhone user, who is willing to pay $0.99 for an application that makes farting noises at the press of a big button or has the clothes fall of the pretty lady when the phone is tipped sideways. This would eat substantially into Android's share if iPhone was offered in other networks.
Banned for life!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Gee, so Apple has banned you from writing iPhone apps? Gosh, that sucks.
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I don't think it means anything for Android. In fact, it could be good for Android.
It seems like AT&T is doing everything they can to milk the iPhone exclusivity and not piss off Apple enough to start selling iPhones through other carriers. Just look at AT&T's piss poor rollout of Android-based handsets - One of the linked articles links to another article about three new Android phones coming out for AT&T from Motorola. Note that every single one of these "new" phones lags at least 4-6 month
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The iPhone will not be coming to Verizon anytime soon, no matter how many people post wishful texts onto Macrumors about it:
1: Even with LTE out, it will be years before previous protocols (GSM, CDMA) will be made completely redundant. Even now, if I go to rural areas, phones fall back to EDGE or even GPRS. Until LTE completely replaces GSM and CDMA, you won't find an iPhone on Verizon. Otherwise it would have to fall back to something, and that would be CDMA.
2: Apple is not going to put in CDMA in the
Re:It means nothing to Android. (Score:5, Informative)
While the CPU in the iPhone is an "Apple spec" CPU, most likely the radio chipset is from a third party.
Most such third parties offer roughly equivalent GSM and CDMA chipsets (In fact, probably 50%+ of the GSM/UMTS smartphone market is powered by Qualcomm chipsets, despite Qualcomm being the creator and backer of cdmaOne/CDMA2000), making it not too difficult to make a CDMA version of a phone and a GSM version.
Also, you show a fundamental lack of understanding of RF and communications engineering. New band = new antenna. Same bands but different protocol = no new antenna, just a different baseband processor. Therefore, adding T-Mobile's additional band is the least likely route for Apple to go.
Changing the iPhone from GSM/UMTS to CDMA2000 (note: UMTS uses a CDMA modulation scheme, one of the reasons Qualcomm is involved in that market despite them backing a competing protocol/air interface suite - they're good at making CDMA chipsets whether it is the UMTS protocol/air interface suite or CDMA2000) most likely entails:
1) Switch out the baseband processor chip. Note that as I said before, nearly all UMTS chipset providers also provide CDMA2000 chipsets that are very similar and require little engineering
2) Remove the now unneeded SIM slot (what was that about a packed device?)
That's about it
Note: Right now, Apple gets their radio chipsets from Infineon, but there is a lot of evidence pointing to them moving to Qualcomm for the 5th gen iPhone, with the ability to produce a CDMA version being one of a number of reasons, Infineon getting purchased by Intel being a bigger reason - see http://touchreviews.net/iphone-5-qualcomm-radio-chip/ [touchreviews.net] - I don't know about Infineon chipsets, but it is VERY easy to make both a CDMA2000 and GSM/UMTS version of a phone if you use Qualcomm for your radio chipsets, which is why a large portion of HTC's GSM product line have near identical CDMA equivalents.
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Apple won't be dropping the MicroSIM tray anytime soon. Instead, if they are aiming to have a device for China, they will need it to support R/UIM cards, if they are choosing to go that route.
Yes, it is possible for Apple do do a baseband redesign. However will it be profitable for them to switch to a protocol that won't gain them anything in bandwidth [1]? Perhaps in other markets, but not the US.
[1]: Since CDMA2000 1X Advanced isn't here yet, moving to current CDMA is going to cause a loss of features
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When the original iPhone came out, 3G was not widespread. It was in some metropolitan areas, just like Clear is now, but it was not available outside of large cities. Because of this and the lag time between getting the phone designed versus hitting the market, Apple apparently decided to make it EDGE only.
Apple is not going to put out an iPhone next year that will be LTE capable for a similar reason. As of now, there is only one LTE network up and running in one town, and only one dumbphone can take adv
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iPhone does let you write your own apps, fandroid.
And if you pay $99, Steve Jobs will even let you run your apps on your own phone.
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The $10 surcharge is precisely why I won't get a 4G phone when my Sprint contract is up for renewal. If it wasn't for the free mobile calls across the board I would've dropped my Sprint phone for an alternative a while ago. I already pay $70 + fees and taxes per month for it, and now they want me to pay $10 extra a month for the privilege of 4G? Shove it.
I remember when cell phone plan prices were going down, now they just seem to be climbing ever upward.
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"I can easily see Verizon's version of the iPhone as being the first smartphone with bloatware on it"
You haven't been paying attention. Samsung in particular is adding plenty of bloatware to the Galaxy phones.
See? Android rules! :)