Facebook, Microsoft Team Up Against Google 297
Pickens writes "In a move that could be the biggest threat to Google's search standing yet, Microsoft and Facebook announced that they're teaming up for social search. When someone uses Bing's search engine to look for a new car or a book, she can see which ones her friends liked. While industry watchers say this is an interesting move for search, what's most notable is that Facebook turned to Microsoft for this deal and not to the market leader, Google. Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg says there is a specific reason he wants to go with Bing: 'They really are the underdog here. They're incentivized to go out and innovate. They have all these smart people and are trying to do all these new things.' The real importance of this week's announcement is that it highlights the growing strategic conflict between Facebook and Google, says analyst Ray Valdes. 'There is a battle for the future of the Web, and it is not about search engines, but about the social Web.'"
Plus. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Damn your bonus. The divide between Google and Facebook is why the official Facebook app for Android is worth about as much as a lump of coal in place of a roll of toilet paper.
I SAY GOOD DAY, SIR.
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Still makes me happy that I don't do Facebook, it seems like FB is one of the greatest threats to privacy these days. Governments use it to track their citizens etc.
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Just have to watch what you post. As I said in a story on here yesterday, I don't post anything (including status updates or pictures) I wouldn't want my mother or local police department to know about. I'm also pretty careful about what pictures I appear in, since I have no control what other people do with pictures they've taken.
Re:Plus. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good grief, is that what we've come to? You think you're not affected by facebook (because of your "common sense"), but actually it sounds like facebook is controlling your life.
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I don't think Microsoft has gotten to the "I'm going to go out of business" part yet, but they appear to be trying to speed it up with facebook.
I wonder how much more they think they can buy marketshare before they fail?
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Integrating Bing with the FB search function aught to be fairly entertaining.
- Dan.
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Why is the parent modded informative? Oh because we hate Microsoft here....
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Why is the parent modded informative? Oh because we hate Microsoft here....
Why post the question you already know the answer too? Damnit, I just did it too!
Re:Plus. (Score:4, Informative)
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Google - Diaspora (Score:5, Insightful)
So is this a deliberate attempt for Facebook to allocate resources towards Diaspora? Are they deliberately fueling the two headed monster that will replace them?
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LOLFR, diaspora replacing Facebook...
Wait, you *are* joking, right?
Oh dear... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Oh dear... (Score:5, Funny)
That's what you think.
Regards,
Mark Z.
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Getting rid of this stuff [youtube.com] takes digitular fortitude.
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Re:Oh dear... (Score:5, Insightful)
I really am regretting ever creating a Facebook account. If things carry on in this direction, I shall delete the thing soon.
Those of us who found serious problems (mainly privacy-related) with Facebook from the very beginning, decided not to participate at all, and said so, tended to catch some flak for it. As in, something other than a well-reasoned rebuttal to the position. Usually this was in the form of someone's personal offense that I would point out a flaw in their favorite new service, or that I would steadfastly value the privacy they seem to have given up on.
"If things carry on in this direction" indeed. I think this is like many political proposals. People tend to look at short-term effects without considering that these represent movement in a particular direction. The path that the momentum is taking can be identified early on and the destination can be known long before the end of that path is reached. It is something of a law of nature that events tend to unfold, to evolve, to become more so, to continue along their current direction in a straight line unless some counter-force alters that path. The longer something goes on the more inertia it accumulates; the more inertia it has the greater that counter-force (or backlash) must be to have any effect.
I for one identified early on that Facebook and similar sites appeal to a form of vanity I do not personally possess. Even if I did find that tempting, vanity is not a rational reason to participate in something. They do this while coming with disadvantages I find unacceptable, such as the loss of control over any personal information posted there (read their privacy policies, they make this quite clear) and the extensive use of personal information for tracking and marketing purposes. As another poster has pointed out in reply to you, you have no real assurance that your account is ever truly deleted even after going through a needlessly complex process to request that this be done.
The pattern here is a valuable one to recognize and simplicity itself. When many proponents of something display that kind of denigrating personal offense when you question the purpose or usefulness of that thing, and resent that you question it rationally at all, it should be a red flag. I've rarely or never seen anyone do that when the object in question is an inherently good or useful thing that can stand on its own merits. The regret you express can be described as a lesson about popularity, trend, and bandwagon appeal and the unwarranted power these can have over your decision-making. To be sure, it is a valuable one.
Re:Oh dear... (Score:5, Interesting)
I for one identified early on that Facebook and similar sites appeal to a form of vanity I do not personally possess.
Even if I did find that tempting, vanity is not a rational reason to participate in something.
Perhaps the reason you caught flak was really for such a snooty attitude.
While narcissism may be a motivator for some users of facebook, it can hardly be said that vanity is the draw.
The ability to easily connect (and reconnect) with friends present and past is quite valuable to most regular people.
The price may be too high and too hidden, but that doesn't make the value provided any less meaningless.
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The pattern here is a valuable one to recognize and simplicity itself. When many proponents of something display that kind of denigrating personal offense when you question the purpose or usefulness of that thing, and resent that you question it rationally at all, it should be a red flag. I've rarely or never seen anyone do that when the object in question is an inherently good or useful thing that can stand on its own merits. The regret you express can be described as a lesson about popularity, trend, and
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I really am regretting ever creating a Facebook account. If things carry on in this direction, I shall delete the thing soon.
The number one search hint when entering "dele" into the Google toolbar is "delete facebook account". Coincidence?
I am a hipster-hater (Score:2)
I just want to say that I hated Facebookbefore it was cool to hate Facebook. All the rest of you are just 'Johnny come hate-lys'.....
There is a battle for the future of... (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a battle for the future of the Web, and it is not about search engines, but about the social Web
There is a battle for the future of people's *privacy*. On one side, ordinary people. On the other side, spooks and profiteers who tell us that "privacy doesn't matter".
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You left out the hordes of people who don't care about their privacy any more. I've been watching with mouth agape as we're all treating Total Information Awareness as a "feature".
Re:There is a battle for the future of... (Score:4, Insightful)
...And on the other other side, people like me, who know that a certain amount of privacy is actually useful, and a certain amount of personally-identifiable information is perfectly fine to give away without worrying about consequences. It takes some effort to maintain separate sets of public vs. private information, but it's possible to keep them separate.
Re:There is a battle for the future of... (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a battle for the future of the Web, and it is not about search engines, but about the social Web
There is a battle for the future of people's *privacy*. On one side, ordinary people. On the other side, spooks and profiteers who tell us that "privacy doesn't matter".
That is not where I would have drawn the line...
I would have said we had ordinary people on one side, and paranoid privacy geeks on the other side.
I'm not going to say that "privacy doesn't matter"... But our idea of privacy is a fairly modern invention. Move out to a small town and you'll quickly see what a lack of privacy really is. Everybody knows what everybody else is doing. Doesn't matter if you're on Facebook or not. It's just the relatively recent migration to large cities where you can get lost in the crowd that has created this idea of privacy.
Which isn't a bad thing. I like my privacy, personally.
But it isn't like Facebook/Google/Bing/Big Brother/whatever are eroding this ancient and mighty establishment called "privacy".
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A city gives privacy through a type of anonymity. A rural town give privacy through difficutly to obtain and spread information and the difficulty in retaining said information with accurac
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And Facebook recently "upgraded" their security settings to supposedly "tighten" the privacy configuration on user profiles... Are they going to add a security setting that let's me choose to have my profile information and photos *excluded* from the Bing searches? I should hope so.
I have a hard enough time yelling at my 'friends' not to copy and repost my photos without proper security on their own profiles, and have partly resorted to watermarking all my images with my copyright to help tell people whose
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If more people know/cared about their privacy being constantly probed, there would be more of an uproar, and it wouldn't be as profitable to gather such information. But most people don't understand how it works.
"Social Web" is... (Score:2, Insightful)
...the "Push" of this decade.
Re:"Social Web" is... (Score:4, Insightful)
...the "Push" of this decade.
It's actually a wonderful analogy. The social web traps the bugs (read: users) and allows the spiders (read: companies) to suck them dry. Eventually the social web gets tangled, and a new spider comes along to spin more line.
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Where are my Mod points when I need them!
and why would I want this? (Score:2)
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Re:and why would I want this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most folks/corporations/ip-rights-holders don't mind being "liked". But if you publicise loudly enough that you "dislike" them, they might sue to stop you.
As a consumer, you are only allowed two votes: Consent or Abstain. There is no Dissent.
Eventually there'll be no Abstain.
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As a consumer, you are only allowed two votes: Consent or Abstain. There is no Dissent.
Also, 'Consent' or 'Abstain' are the only allowed votes that shareholders get.
Re:and why would I want this? (Score:4, Funny)
Each item should have a red, yellow, and green button.
Green = Like
Red = Dislike
Yellow = indifferent but desperately lonely
Will never take off (Score:4, Insightful)
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Except for teens whose self-esteem comes from buying things that their peers like rather than developing their own fashion sense or opinion just yet. This is where the money is.
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When adding tags to your friends (already possible on Facebook using "friends lists"), you are providing that context. The search engine can use that to figure out which of your friends would have something relevant to say about whatever it is you are looking for.
Sure, you can ask your friends for their opinion directly. Your real friends. But on the social web (what's
Gender Bias (Score:2)
Only she? So if a "he" searches it doesn't work?
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It does, but he wont make a decision based on what other people think is cute.
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'Cause chicks are more influenced by what other people say is cool.
See: Fashion.
What can see what... (Score:2)
Bing's search engine to look for a new car or a book, she can see which ones her friends liked.
Does that mean MS has privileged access to facebook data? As in if your facebook 'friends' only disclose that information to 'friends' and not the entire world MS can still see it in order to catalog it (and do who knows what else with it)?
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I only started using facebook when I got rid of my ex and realized I had been dragged down for so long that I didn't have a reliable way of getting in contact with of all my friends.
Maybe a bit too much information (Score:4, Insightful)
I can see it now.... I'll be shopping at Walgreens.com and there will be popups on that say what kind of Hemorrhoid cream my boss uses, and that my Aunt Grace just bought a some warming KY-Jelly.
Some things need to stay private.
Finally! The death of Facebook! (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft have a habit of fatally betraying any company they "partner" up with. I couldn't have picked a better candidate for such a fate!
Mr. Vonnegut (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
PR Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
"Their search engine sucks."
"They gave us a lot of money"
"They're rich and desperate. Ka-ching!"
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Microsoft also owns a part of Facebook so that would also force them to work together.
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Granpa Google (Score:5, Interesting)
They're incentivized to go out and innovate. They have all these smart people and are trying to do all these new things.
I mean, jeez, yeah. The last thing I heard about Google doing was building cars that drive themselves in traffic. That's sooo mid-2000s... Facebing is looking to the future here! Those 500 people that I once knew in HS and college that I haven't talked to in 3+ years and that every time I do I'm reminded of why I don't talk to them (nothing in common, completely antithetical views on most things, too many freaking country-club-kiddies who don't know the difference between Bing and Best Buy)? Those are *definitely* the people who's likes I want showing up first in my search engine results!
Now, to be fair, Microsoft does actually have some pretty sweet research going on. And while most of that research is in things pretty unrelated to search, a lot of Google's research is also pretty unrelated to search. But to say that you're going with Bing over Google because Bing is "incentivized to innovate" sounds like that phrase had it's own paragraph in the contract, right above where the $ was followed by a dozen "0"s.
Hey, gotta pay for the Newark school system somehow, right?
Botnets anyone? (Score:3, Insightful)
Lemmings (Score:5, Insightful)
When someone uses Bing's search engine to look for a new car or a book, she can see which ones her friends liked.
And with a map interface, we can all see which cliff all the other rodents are leaping off today.
The "Social Web" is a lie (Score:2, Troll)
Not that anyone here has fallen victim to the waste of time that is facebook. Rather this is just a vehicle for me to say:
"Hey, you got your waste of time website in my crappy OS! Well, you got your crappy OS all over my useless marketing engine disguised as a "social web tool" Mmmmm, two shitty tastes that taste even shittier together! Reese's Social Net-Hype Cups! Now with extra marketing!"
Great! Now I can pretend to stay connected to people I would not bother to see in real life, all with tons of ad
Translation: (Score:5, Interesting)
Translation of Zuckerberg's comments: "Microsoft has loads of cash, and they're willing to cut me an insanely good deal and throw money my way if it's got any chance of giving them a leg up on Google.".
We're rooting for you Beowulf! (Score:3, Funny)
Go and slay Grendel! You can do it! Imma stay here behind this fortress of GPL. KTHXBAI.
Why would I want this? (Score:5, Insightful)
If I care about my friends' opinions on a particular topic, I ask them about it.
This is just so silly - doubly so, given the typical Facebook user's definition of "friend". Tell me, if you're doing a search - do you honestly care what random "Facebook Friend" Joe Schmoe, who you last met 20 years ago in daycare, liked or didn't like?
What, Google's worrying? (Score:5, Insightful)
Google's working on cars that drive by themselves.
What the fuck is Microsoft innovating?
Facebook is just a fad...
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Research Areas [microsoft.com]
I have no idea if they are working on cars that will drive themselves and they don't advertise their 'Labs' as well as Google, but there is plenty of research going on at Microsoft. I know there are plenty of people who HATE all things Microsoft, but there are some really talented people working on really interesting things over there.
Recipe for disaster (Score:3, Interesting)
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If it's based on "like"-ing a product or brand, then that's already public to your circle of friends. Where is the spot in Facebook where I tell it my deep dark secrets that I don't want to be shared with anyone?
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Welcome new forms of spam, yay! (Score:3, Funny)
And new infection vectors for trojans...
"[blink]You are infected!!! [/blink] Your friend recommends this virus scanner".
ok, Facebook geeks, help me out... (Score:3, Interesting)
I am determined to be the last person on the planet to sign up for Facebook. I hate the concept and I hate the leader.
That said, I think there's one feature that might sway me.
I use Yahoo IM extensively. I love it. I use it on my phone and on my PC. It's relatively anonymous, friends don't know who your other friends are, it's exactly what I am looking for, in a person-to-person communication program.
I know Facebook has a mobile product and a chat product, and, from what I have read, a very complex way of setting up groups of your friends. But is there ANYTHING like "I just want to sign up for facebook to be able to communicate with a few friends, person-to-person via Instant messages. I don't want some wall-shit that people are going to write on. I don't want to share my photos, or my status. I just want to be able to send IM's. And I want it to be SIMPLE to just sign up and do JUST that. With relative anonymity. Without telling each friend who else I am friends with."
Do they have anything like that?
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Set up your own XMPP Server [igniterealtime.org] and give your friends a login. Tell them they can use a program like Pidgin to login, and then tell them they can also use Pidgin to be signed into Facebook Chat at the same time. If you're lucky? They might bite as long as you're on the hook to show them how to set up Facebook Chat on it too.
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Why do you hate the concept? What is wrong with people communicating? Yeah, some people post inane things, but you dont have to follow those people.
It's an easy way to stay connected and to know what people I am interested in are doing.
You'rs just a luddite.
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Friends are deemed public knowledge on FB and can't be hidden IIRC.
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I just want to be able to send IM's.
So you're using an IM network. Good for you. There are already plenty of them. Facebook doesn't need to be another one.
Many people like social networks. They like "wall-shit that people are going to write on". They want to share photos. They want to do status updates. Facebook has been very successful catering to that. It's not obliged to become an IM network just because you don't like social networks.
Why does /. hate social networks so much? Whenever there's a thread on FB or twitter, the responses are a
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No, Facebook doesn't need to be an IM network and I don't need to be on Facebook. If you like it, I have no problem with that. I was just stating the only reason I could imagine that I might sign up.
See my earlier response why I hate it [slashdot.org], since you asked...
It might work (Score:4, Interesting)
To most of us this sounds abhorrent but it might be commercially successful anyhow.
However, it seems a bit like the Kin... they are betting the phone's entire success on one app (or group of apps) - social.
I think Android and iPhone are successful because they are just platforms to run any kind of app... the users decide what they want.
Thanks but no thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
Honestly , now to do a _bing_ search I have to log into a facebook account or how is this suppose to work? Also what about privacy issues ? XSS attacks ? How is this anonymously allowing me to search and bettering my privacy at the same time ?
The real reason (Score:4, Insightful)
The real reason is because both Microsoft and Facebook see eye-to-eye when it comes to user security. ;)
Both eyes are blind.
Microsoft just fits with Facebook (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft's business strategy "be evil" [geekculture.com] seems a much better fit for Facebook.
I like it how MS are trying to stare Google down (Score:3, Interesting)
Too much information age (Score:2)
Linda recommends Powermax personal massager
Thanks Bing, but no thanks.
Join me in the following (Score:2)
Delete all your likes and interests from your profile. E.g. favorite tv-shows, books etc. As these are what bing would like to search for.
Microsoft is heavily invested in Facebook (Score:4, Interesting)
Surprised this article and /. summary is so poorly researched. (Then again this is /. what can I expect?)
Microsoft is very heavily invested in Facebook.
They put 240 million dollars into it years ago, they own a substantial stake in the company.
They very likely have one or more key members on the board, and of course would be heavily against any involvement by Google, who is their top competitor.
Evil Con Carne (Score:3, Funny)
I can't help but feel that he could have been describing Google, Facebook and Microsoft: Don't Be Evil, Privacy is Evil, and Evil.
This could be as big as AOL and Time Warner (Score:3, Funny)
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"Oh Armand...our baby's all grown up...and we won't have any others." "Not without a miracle." -Birdcage
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Bing is utter crap.
Maybe in general, but their "birds eye view" perspective in their mapping section kicks google's ass. I think google is trying to catch up, but it was too buggy to even work when I tried what sounded like the google equivalent.
Re:People use Bing? (Score:4, Insightful)
That "in general" is where Google has won every single time, and why Microsoft fails time and time again to remain relevant. A single feature does not innovation make, nor will this minor feature matter to anybody who isn't shallow. Might as well argue that you prefer Microsoft's color scheme or fonts.
As long as Microsoft continues to launch unsuccessful products despite massive advertising campaigns, they will continue to stagnate and fall further behind Google and Apple.
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Why not use IE frame extension in FF?
Use FF and when you need to use the "multi-million dollar black hole ERP" web app, it switches to using IE's rendering engine in a FF tab.
Or am I being too optimistic?
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There's no official MSI version for remote installation and upgrading, nor can you install extensions remotely.
(You can deploy a portable version that does the same thing and is a simple copy and paste but I digress. But that's not easily upgradable anyway.)
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I bet if Chrome had an MSI package, an "IE Tab" extension and a was to install extensions remotely, FF will be locked-out of corps and IE would finally die.
The Firefox "MSI bug" is now 6 years old.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=231062 [mozilla.org]
It seems Mozilla is waffling between using Wix (to get a TRUE MSI package) and just using MSI as a wrapper. Meanwhile nobody on the outside cares which way they swing.
Disclaimer: I package MSIs for a living.
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And I dislike most packaged MSIs... which may be what you are referring to, but I only use them in passing as I promised myself to never use it to distribute anything... ever.
1. Symantec Endpoint Protection (only one so far that I've run into this with, but I have seen others mentioned looking for the solution) - Start the install, hit cancel... it comes back, over and over. Killing the task? Nope, Windows update kicks it off again. You have to download a special tool from MS to clear the install settin
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Bing is utter crap.
Why? Seems to work pretty well for me.
Ahem - "surely people with the smallest amount of common sense don't use Google more than they can help because of fears of how much data is being gathered by Google". I contend that's just as legitimate/silly an issue.
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Its gets funnier. My girlfriend works a gigantic corporation (in the top 20 in the US), and she is forced to use IE 6, or all their legacy apps die. Recently they also installed a completely locked down copy of Firefox on their network, which is only for, and can only open, a single online app that was smart enough to kill their IE6 compatibility.
At least we think it is just for the legacy app, though we may be wrong since the street-level tech people are also flummoxed and (justifiably) annoyed.
On the br
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Still, it does seem simple to insert a tag to force IE8 to render in IE7mode. It would let everyone upgrade to IE8 on their PCs, which has to be worth some bonus points.
The EmulateIE7 tag below forces IE8 to render in IE7 mode (when enclosed in proper brackets)
meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=EmulateIE7"
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No. It is used to replace our mainframe operations which ran our merchandising operations. All of our apps were home-grown and trying to maintain/upgrade them had become a spaghetti of code and incomplete/invalid information.
The powers that be decided on Oracle to replace the mainframe operations and brought in Deloitte Consulting to do the upgrade.
So far we're at $80 million and counting and the software is not as functional or easy to use as the previous operations were. Nor is the transformation done.