Forgot your password?

typodupeerror
Google Government Microsoft The Courts Your Rights Online

Google Sues US Gov't For Only Considering Microsoft 407

Posted by Soulskill
from the do-not-pass-go dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Late last week, Google sued the US government for putting out a Request For Quotation for the messaging needs of the Department of the Interior that specified only Microsoft solutions would be considered. Google apparently had spent plenty of time talking to DOI officials to understand their needs and make sure they had a solution ready to go — and were promised that there wasn't a deal already in place with Microsoft. And then the RFQ came out. Google protested, but the protest was dismissed, with the claim that Google was 'not an interested party.'"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Google Sues US Gov't For Only Considering Microsoft

Comments Filter:
  • Smart Move? (Score:3, Informative)

    by alphatel (1450715) * on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:20PM (#34094088)
    It's one of those bureaucratic loopholes. Without the GSA schedule and number, you can be dismissed from any offering regardless of how much time you put in. Did they really not have one? Almost seems like a bad oversight.

    Honestly though, even if they did can they really think that suing the gov't over some minor app is going to win tons of dollars and contracts? Every spec can be written in the future in such a way to exclude a companies abilities ad infinitum.
  • by Toe, The (545098) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:31PM (#34094226)

    It is pretty amusing, because I have repeatedly seen government (and corporate) IT talk about avoiding Macs because they are a Single Source Solution: you can't buy Macs from anyone but Apple, so you are locked into dealing with only one vendor. Then these same people would turn around and specify Microsoft Windows solutions. Precisely how many vendors do they think make Microsoft Windows?

    If any of these people were honestly interested in avoiding vendor lock-in, they would require that all solutions be free and open source software. And preferably "open source hardware," if there actually can be said to be such a thing.

  • by Myopic (18616) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:32PM (#34094234)

    I couldn't visualize it from the description, but this video shows how it works

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UesbkO3NvoY [youtube.com]

    Pretty crazy. It'll come down to whether they can actually make something like that reliable.

  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:5, Informative)

    by jlechem (613317) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:32PM (#34094250) Homepage Journal
    Verbal contracts are all well and good but unless they have a DUNS and register with the CCR, and use those to get on the schedule the DoD can pretty much give them the finger and they have no recourse. Sounds like someone at Google didn't do their homework on getting DoD jobs.
  • by Wyatt Earp (1029) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:34PM (#34094272)

    They were corrupt under Reagan, Bush and Clinton too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobell_v._Kempthorne [wikipedia.org] for one.

  • Vendors (Score:3, Informative)

    by HogGeek (456673) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:37PM (#34094320)

    A lot of discussion on "How come only Microsoft".

    While I agree it's not "competitive", I think they are looking for bids on hosting a Microsoft based solution - not Microsoft, the company, providing the hosting

  • by clone53421 (1310749) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:38PM (#34094340) Journal

    They aren’t restricting the bidding to only Microsoft... third-party contractors could bid on it as long as they were going to use Microsoft’s products.

    Basically, they’re trying to avoid taking the low bid and then at the end of the contract finding out that all of the workstations are running some free flavour of Linux that isn’t supported and none of their employees know how to use. It’s reasonable from that perspective, although cutting Google out of the mix probably still wasn’t really the smartest move.

  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:5, Informative)

    by bytestorm (1296659) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:41PM (#34094370)
    A plaintiff company Onix apparently does have a GSA Schedule 70 and provides solutions based on google docs. Since they (google) are not providing the service directly, however, they shouldn't need one. According to the complaint, the companies have been courting this since june 2009, so there was plenty of time to get one if they needed it. The deal is that when the RFQ went out, it was specifically worded such that google docs were not a usable cloud platform, even though google docs is FISMA certified, which was the DOI's primary complaint to them in the first place (or so they claim in the filing).
  • by afidel (530433) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:42PM (#34094392)
    It depends. A perfectly reasonable RFP could include things that only lead to one technology being considered. For instance I have a VMWare cluster that uses Intel 5500 and 5600 CPU's, if I needed additional capacity without impacting my existing cluster I could write and RFP that stated that Intel 5500 and above parts which work with VMWare EVC (function masking) with my existing cluster be used. This would specify that Intel CPU's be used but would allow bidding from Dell, HP, Cisco, IBM, and Oracle and their resellers. I see nothing fundamentally wrong with such an RFP, but then I work in the private sector where picking the best technology for our needs is not only legal but often mandatory.
  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zocalo (252965) on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:45PM (#34094430) Homepage
    No kidding. I'm currently working on part of the delivery of a $1b+ tender where a dimension is specified to not exceed a given length to an accuracy of 0.5mm. This is on a device that is over 5 meters in length. Gaming the list of potential bidders/suppliers? That would be unethical, and also illegal in many jurisdictions. Stating your requirements with a high degree of precision? Nothing wrong with that!

    People who write these kinds of things are well aware of what they can and can't do or say and still have no problems in making sure that their preferred supplier wins the contract without breaching the letter of the law. The spirit of the law, on the other hand, was declared dead a long time ago.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 01, 2010 @04:59PM (#34094608)
  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Svartalf (2997) on Monday November 01, 2010 @05:05PM (#34094708) Homepage

    There's also a requirement to have a PRODUCT that could be put into the Schedule to begin with. I'm pretty sure they've got a DUNS number at the least (Most major corps typically have one.) and the rest is easy.

    Don't seize on what the GSA did for a reason for refusal here. I'm strongly suspecting that they were finding out what they needed to do to possibly get the business before they went and did the rest- because they'd have had to.

    No, there's an issue there. It's called an EXPLICITLY CLOSED contract when they're obligated by law to provide OPEN bids for things. Claims of "enhanced security" and "integrated mail, etc." is bunk. There's a handful of actual solutions that meet all those criteria, actually, and Google was one of the prospective providers. I don't know where the lawsuit will go, but there IS a serious problem with the DOI deal there.

  • Re:Eheh (Score:5, Informative)

    by h4rr4r (612664) on Monday November 01, 2010 @05:05PM (#34094714)

    You left out a lot:
    Zimbra
    Zafara
    OpenXchange(that one I know sucks)
    Scalix
    the list goes on and on.

  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:4, Informative)

    by metamatic (202216) on Monday November 01, 2010 @05:45PM (#34095168) Homepage Journal

    This clearly indicates bribery, no one hears "Microsoft" and thinks enhanced security.

    Does Google's professional mail solution support S/MIME? Gmail doesn't, and it's a gaping hole in their messaging offering when compared to pretty much any popular messaging application on the market.

  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:4, Informative)

    by trout007 (975317) on Monday November 01, 2010 @06:46PM (#34095932)
    Usually the Measurement equipment is calibrated at 20C and that is what a standard note on the drawing would call out. If it was a steel part the CTE is around 18 micrometer per (meter C). So for a 5 m part for every degree C you would have .09 mm change in length. I am a mechanical engineer and sometimes you forget to check the tolerance on every dimension and the CAD standard applies. The problem with working for the government is the bid is based on the RFQ. In the real world the shop can call the engineer and ask if they really needed it that tight and usually it was something that was missed.
  • by spopepro (1302967) on Monday November 01, 2010 @07:19PM (#34096290)
    I was starting to reply to a bunch of comments, but figured I'd just start anew since the misunderstandings are widespread. It seems like very few here have experience with public sector RFPs and RFQs. Even if you worked for a company that has submitted responses I wouldn't be surprised if you got it wrong. We (school district) just canceled because all 10 vendors were non-responsive by not reading and answering the requirements.

    You write up an RFP when you know your problem and you need a solution. Language often specifies a technology, but allows for equivalent substitutions. Protests often happen over debate of what qualifies as equivalent, but if the DOI was looking for a solution, they would write an RFP.

    But they weren't looking for a solution, they were looking for a vendor, and already knew what solution they wanted. That's when you write an RFQ, specify exactly the technology you want and then let everyone submit pricing. The disadvantage is that you have to choose the low quotation. In an RFP, you do not have to take the low proposal, even in the public sector.

    So it might feel wrong, but way before the RFQ was even written the DOI determined that they wanted the Microsoft solution and just wanted pricing. Google lost before it even started. Which is probably short sighted by the DOI, but well within the law. As a public sector person who deals with this, it's not easy to get what you know you need at a price you want. Most public entities aren't being corrupt, but like someone else mentioned, the spirit of the law has long been lost and both sides spend inordinate amounts of time and money just trying to game the system. Like the vendor who protested that his 7200rpm SATA drive SAN was equivalent to the 15k SAS version and that he won on price... ugh.

  • Re:Eheh (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 01, 2010 @07:45PM (#34096514)

    Good lord. You're mounting an argument by citing serial liar Andrew Breitbart and the right-wing Washington Examiner?

  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:5, Informative)

    by dondelelcaro (81997) <don@donarmstrong.com> on Monday November 01, 2010 @08:02PM (#34096646) Homepage Journal

    Gmail doesn't [support S/MIME], and it's a gaping hole in their messaging offering when compared to pretty much any popular messaging application on the market.

    There are various client-side plugins which support S/MIME for Gmail (which is actually the right place to do it). See Gmail S/MIME [mozilla.org] and other similar plugins.

  • Re:Eheh (Score:3, Informative)

    by fishbowl (7759) on Monday November 01, 2010 @08:53PM (#34097030)

    I was very surprised, though, to see that once they started using it, some of the people who had been the most doubtful, became the biggest advocates of the Gmail way. It's dramatic enough that if we wanted to go back to Exchange or Outlook or Entourage, there would be blood, and the execs, not IT, would be the ones protesting the loudest.

    Once you do an honest cost/benefit analysis of (paid-for, corporate) Google mail, it's not a hard sell at all. The problem, if it is one, is persuading decision makers to actually be honest and disinterested in their analysis. That's often much, much more difficult than it should be.

  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Kumiorava (95318) on Monday November 01, 2010 @10:15PM (#34097422)

    The issue that Google has wasn't about any particular feature that is required. I'm pretty sure that FIPS 140-2 (if it was a requirement) would be implemented for any Google product if at all possible. Main issue is the requirement to use Microsoft BPOS-Federal product as the basis of the service.

  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:3, Informative)

    by janeuner (815461) on Monday November 01, 2010 @11:38PM (#34097812)

    The only thing that FIPS 140-2 implies is that someone in marketing figured out that by using the correct algorithms, they can sell crap products to the government. Congratulations - you just screwed the public for $210 for a flash drive that is no more secure than commercial grade sticks and a copy of TrueCrypt (which uses FIPS 140-2 compliant algorithms, no less)

    But hey, why should you care? Enjoy your job security.

  • Re:Smart Move? (Score:2, Informative)

    by imlepid (214300) <kkinkaid@i m l e p i d .com> on Tuesday November 02, 2010 @12:49AM (#34098162)

    The only thing that FIPS 140-2 implies is that someone in marketing figured out that by using the correct algorithms, they can sell crap products to the government. Congratulations - you just screwed the public for $210 for a flash drive that is no more secure than commercial grade sticks and a copy of TrueCrypt (which uses FIPS 140-2 compliant algorithms, no less)

    Disclaimer: I work for USGS/DOI.

    Not really true. (Not true at all, actually...) FIPS 140-2 requires much more than just certain algorithms. Much of the requirements relates to making sure keys are properly handled, that RNGs function as desired, and that the device is tamper-resistant and tamper-evident.

    Further, regulations stipulate that sensitive, but unclassified (continuity of operations and contingency plans) and personally identifiable information (PII) (social security numbers and such) data must be encrypted using a FIPS 140-2 certified encryption systems, not merely FIPS 140-2 compliant systems (as you suggest). (Becoming certified is a costly process, one which has granted firms that submit to the process a high level of economic rents [wikipedia.org].) If I could deploy systems which I felt were of an equivalent security level as FIPS 140-2 requires, I would certainly do so (spending $250 on 5 USB drives doesn't help me in any way).

  • by js_sebastian (946118) on Tuesday November 02, 2010 @05:58AM (#34099048)

    All kinds of people enjoy waste and freewheeling. Government money is the largest source. But boss, compnay, NGO and even family money gets abused all the time too. There is really only one place for decency or lack thereof. In minds are hearts. And only one way to really reduce it from there, education. Prosecution makes people think twice sometimes, but doesn't really change who they are. Legislation and lawsuits and punishment just create even more social confusion, just visit some courts and lawsuits and you will see it offerts no real decency and solutions to society.

    An article recently discussed on schneier's blog (http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/11/control_fraud.html) argues otherwise... That under-deterrence creates an environment where corruption can become systemic and that regulatory frameworks need to be designed keeping in mind the possibility of fraud at the highest levels, and optimized to reduce it, rather than be designed based on economic models that wish corruption away as a market inefficiency that is somehow automagically eliminated by free market forces.

No matter where I go, the place is always called "here".

Working...