Time Warner Defends Comcast In Level 3 Dispute 315
MojoKid writes "On December 21, the FCC will finally vote on adopting net neutrality rules. This may (or may not) have been caused by Comcast's spat with Level 3 after Level 3 won a big contract to handle Netflix's video streaming. Grind it all together, output it to Facebook and you get this campaign: 'Save the Internet: Stop Comcast from Blocking Netflix. Without strong net neutrality rules, companies like Comcast can demand fees from innovative companies like Netflix in an attempt to choke consumer freedom and coerce users to adopt its own video services instead.' Comcast insists that this has nothing to do with blocking the upstart Netflix's business but about how much of Level 3's traffic it must carry before they get to send Level 3 a bill. Level 3's traffic has greatly increased thanks to Netflix. On Thursday, Comcast's frienemy, Time Warner, issued a statement of support for Comcast that explained the pro-cable provider side of the fight."
Conflict of interest (Score:5, Interesting)
Back in the '90s, electricity deregulation was a big topic; I recall that the state of Maine ended up differentiating between the electricity providers and the electricity carriers--while before, there had been two monopolies (a biopoly?) serving different areas of the state, there was, afterwards, a number of smaller generating companies (content generation) and a couple of larger companies that provided and maintained the transmission and delivery equipment (broadband providers).
As my parenthetical notes indicate, I think that the same model could be effectively used--or, rather, ought to be enforced--for the current debate. Differentiate the providers of the connection from the providers of the content, and much of the impetus for the anti-neutrality standpoint will go away.
Stupid Summary (Score:4, Interesting)
The L3/Comcast issue became public after the December 21 net neutrality vote was announced, so no it didn't cause it. Secondly, from everything we've heard the net neutrality rules to be proposed will not effect on the L3/Comcast dispute as it is between network operators, and does not discriminate based on content type or source.
Re:Double Dipping? (Score:5, Interesting)
No, Netflix does not pay Comcast. They used to, in a sort of indirect way. Netflix used to pay Akamai, a content delivery network, to deliver streaming video to customers. Akamai does this by having data centers all over the place that can serve up content faster than anything centralized. And Akamai pays to link their data centers to Comcast so they can do this.
Well, here comes Level 3. Traditionally a backbone provider, they go to Netflix with a sweetheart deal on delivering content. Netflix dumps Akamai for them, and Level 3 realizes they lack the bandwidth to Comcast needed to deliver Netflix's streaming video. So they want additional links to Comcast, like Akamai had, only they don't want to pay for them. And why? Because they're a backbone provider, peer links should be free.
So Level 3, not wanting to pay Comcast (probably because those costs were not factored into what they charged Netflix), is playing the Network Neutrality card to provide CDN services under the guise of a backbone provider. But in reality Comcast isn't saying they are going to degrade Netflix traffic. But that they won't provide additional bandwidth for one service for free.
At the end of the day the customer is going to pay Comcast to deliver that content one way or another. Whether it is directly in the form of higher internet prices, or indirectly through Netflix in the form of higher subscription fees; I see very little difference.
Anyway, Comcast's letter to the FCC [comcast.com] is worth reading.
Re:Peering Agreement (Score:4, Interesting)
Did Comcast become transit free when I was not looking? Nope they still buy transit L3 should grow a pair and cancel there settlement free peering with Comcast, worst case is they end up with an imbalance with another transit free provider. Right now comcast is not paying for the bandwidth L3 should grow a pair and make them pay for those bits even it's to att or similar. Time Warner is in the same boat. Look at it more as Comcast needs to find some source of packets to send to L3 to get the ratio's back inline if they want to play with the big boys. Take a look at there network http://www.robtex.com/as/as7922.html [robtex.com] Comcast is an obvious bad actor they like many of the cable co's chew through AS numbers because they don't want to have a backbone they do want everybody to do the hard work for them.
Re:Double Dipping? (Score:2, Interesting)
Your ISP doesn't come after you for more money because they have already sold you that 5 mbps connection. You are not using more than your alloted 5 mbps so they really have nothing to come after you for. The problem is that they have oversold their bandwidth. They sold that same 5 mbps connection to you, and to your neighbors hoping that you all would not use enough of that bandwidth at the same time to notice. So when something like Netflix comes along and everyone decides to use it at the same time things get shaky. They are afraid people will start to realize they are not getting the 5 mbps they were sold. The solution? Hold that popular service ransom at the other end, hoping they can get a payday they can then use to either upgrade their infrastructure or line their pockets with before the customers start asking questions. Incidentally I think this is the same reason (at least here in Canada) we are suddenly seeing ISP starting to enforce download caps. They claim it is because of the dirty, dirty pirates but I believe it is because they are afraid of Netflix and similar services increasing peoples use of the services they have paid for and they realize they can do a little double dipping. Pay for the connection and pay for the data.
Re:Double Dipping? (Score:4, Interesting)
You don't seem to have noticed the "exchanged" part of that definition. This implies that there is an equitable exchange going on here, which is what Comcast wants. An equitable exchange. Level3 doesn't want such an exchange.
And I think you missed this part:
The pure definition of peering is settlement-free or "sender keeps all," meaning that neither party pays the other for the exchanged traffic; instead, each derives revenue from its own customers.
Sorry, but this is bullshit. If Comcast is allowed to get away with this, then Time Warner can charge Level 3. Then AT&T can charge Level 3. Then Verizon and Sprint will charge Level 3. Then these companies will charge each and every web page and web service to be allowed access so their customers can access web content.
Eventually, you're going to end up with different ISP's having access to different web pages/services. For example, you might be allowed to only use Google, Netflix, and Slashdot on Time Warner. Comcast will grant you access to Yahoo, Redbox and Engadget. On your Microsoft phone, you will have access to Bing, MSN, and MSN (through payoffs to each carrier). Carriers/ISPs will advertise that they allow for more web pages than their competition and charge their customers (You and me) for the privilege to access the only the content served from the highest bidder. Meaning if you are content provider, you better have a big bank roll as the amount you are willing to pay will have a direct effect on the amount of customers that want to access your service.
Re:Double Dipping? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm sorry, but you've been consistently wrong the entire time in this thread. Level 3 is a Tier 1, they do not pay other ISP's for the connections. This is part of the conditions of being a Tier 1. Level 3 in fact sells connections to Verizon (who happens to pay them a monthly fee for their customers to access the internet) as does Time warner, AT&T, Sprint and nearly every single other US ISP except other Tier 1's (Comcast is NOT a tier 1 nor have they ever been)
The fact is Comcast pays Level 3 a monthly fee for their interconnects, and rents over 70% of their fiber from Level 3 (who owns the majority of the fiber in the US, thanks to the DOD)
Now Comcast is trying to cut their bill, by pulling a media circus on the netflix deal, when it's traffic that is destined to end on Comcast's network. Traffic that's being sent to the last mile ISP is never to be considered as a "peer" agreement, as it's purchased bandwith. This is where Comcast is in the wrong, and has been the entire time. People defending Comcast in this case proves how little they know about how the internet truly works, and it's my hope that Level 3 tells Comcast to fuck off and depeers them as Comcast is in violation of the peering agreement by trying to shift last ISP traffic to it and then collect for traffic they have already charged their customers for. This is known as double dipping, and Comcast is guilty of trying to do it in this case, just as they have been in the past.