Drivers Blamed For Out of Control Toyotas - Again 482
PolygamousRanchKid writes "An intensive 10 month investigation into possible causes of unintended acceleration in Toyota cars found no fault with the automaker's electronic throttle control systems, the Department of Transportation announced Tuesday."
Didn't the NHTSA say essentially the same thing last July?
Mostly true, but slightly spun summary. (Score:5, Informative)
So far there are three known causes of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles: improperly installed floor mats, sticky pedals, and driver error.
That's the second paragraph of TFA. What, submitters don't RTFA anymore?
Re:wait what? (Score:5, Informative)
If it was American drivers faults, why then did we not see a rash of similar accidents with other manufacturers vehicles?
If you had R'ed TFA, you would have R'ed this:
"Unintended acceleration is not exclusive to Toyotas," [NHTSA deputy administrator Ron] Medford said, pointing out that two-thirds of the unintended acceleration reports the agency has received in recent years involved vehicles by other automakers.
Re:PEBWAC (Score:4, Informative)
Woz was talking about a different problem, something that affected the cruise control's control loop behavior at wide-open throttle. IMHO he was experiencing a corner case that had nothing to do with the sensationalized incidents.
The fact that so many of the drivers who experienced this particular "malfunction" were over age 60 tells you all you need to know.
Re:wait what? (Score:3, Informative)
I live in a city, I do fine. Most Europeans live in cities and they all drive standards.
Re:There IS a problem with the cars (Score:2, Informative)
Ok so we should believe you over the actual experts?
This is what the "experts" said about the KNOWN causes:
improperly installed floor mats, sticky pedals, and driver error
What they have not been able to determine is what happened in the documented case of the person that brought his car to the dealership while the engine was pegged (he put it in neutral and back out to limp back to the dealer).
Toyota admits that the person did come in and they were unable to determine why the accelerator was stuck.
You are a little naive if you think a complex situation like this can be put to rest by some "experts" with limited resources. If you look at the rate of acceleration issues with Toyota over the last 10 years compared to other mfg's with similar domestic volume you will find that their rate of logged complaints considerably exceeds all other mfg's.
Neurtal? We don't need no steenkin' neutral! (Score:3, Informative)
A far simpler thing to do that will leave the power steering working is to shift into neutral.
Shift? Neutral? I thought we were talking about a Prius.
The Prius has no shift, no clutch, no neutral. It has a planetary gear system with:
- The engine and one electric motor-generator (MG1) on one shaft,
- another motor-generator (MG2, or "MGS" for "speed") on another, and
- the drive shaft to the wheels on the third.
Transmission "shifting" is done by electronically controlling the relative speeds and torque directions of MG1 and MG2, transferring power from one to the other and/or between them and the batteries.
If the computer commands it to drive the car forward you have no way to intervene.
Re:Just to clarify.. (Score:2, Informative)
The lack of skid marks indicating braking action should be a fairly good indication it wasn't the care though. The braking system in all cars is power-assist, but still directly mechanical. Couple that with the observation the brakes can overpower the engine in all the Toyotas this complaint is aimed at, and it's a fair guess that "dangerous stupidity" is being rewritten into "car fault! Clearly! I'm calling my lawyer"
I mean, we have a model of this type of event [wikipedia.org] before. Just now we have a new boogieman in the form of computers.
Re:Just to clarify.. (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a Mac geek. I love Woz. But I trust Toyota more than I trust him on the matter, and here's why.
I own the same car as the one Woz noted his problem on; a 2010 Prius V (now called the Prius Five for 2011), with the Advanced Technology package. This means it has the radar cruise control.
The way cruise control works in some cars, like my dad's old Honda Accord is this: you press the button/lever to set a speed. Then, you press and hold a button/lever to accelerate. When you release the button, that's the new set speed, and there's no more acceleration.
In the Prius Woz and I have, it's a bit different; there's a screen a bit to the right of the speedometer that shows the radar cruise control status, including the set speed. Each time you nudge the cruise control stalk up, the set speed goes up by 1 mph. If you hold the stalk, it jumps up in increments of 5 mph. This has no relation to your current speed; if I'm at 50 mph, I can nudge it 5 times to set it to 55 mph, and my actual speed will only be at 51 mph by the time I'm done - so the car keeps accelerating until it gets to 55, a while later. If the car is at least 5 mph below the set speed, it'll open the throttle all the way, and accelerate much more rapidly than normal; so if you nudge the cruise control stalk up enough times, eventually it'll accelerate as fast as possible, until reaching your new setting. This is probably the "unintended acceleration" Woz experienced: After nudging it enough times, the difference between the set speed and the current speed is >5 mph, causing faster acceleration. In a different car, nudging it repeatedly like that would repeatedly accelerate a fraction of a mph, then keep the current speed as the new set speed, and would never continue accelerating past the time that you release the cruise control lever.
Steve also mentioned that nudging the lever down has no effect until he's done it 10 times or more - well of course not! While he's in his rapid (perhaps not intended by him, but it's what he told the car to do) acceleration, he nudges the lever down 10 times - and by that time, the car's speed and the set speed are back at the same level, so it stops accelerating.
I can't say I blame Steve though - he's not the type of guy that's likely to have the time to read the manual for his car (he admitted being very busy, otherwise I expect the nerd in him would be like the nerd in me, prompting him to read it at least twice). He probably assumed it behaves like his last car (or my dad's Honda Accord, or many other cars), where it will stop accelerating once you release the lever - rather than increasing the set speed on the screen while you hold the lever, and then continuing to accelerate to that speed after the lever has been released. (Rereading his comment on /., I note he also said this: "I am sure you can't turn the car off with the keyless power button..." This is certainly wrong - when the car is in motion, you can turn the car off by holding the power button for 3 seconds - another behavior mentioned in the manual.)
Finally, Steve told Wolf Blitzer that his problem was more akin to a button on the radio not working, as he could always cancel cruise control or press on the brakes and it would stop accelerating - so even if you believe his assessment, it's his personal opinion that it's a "surprising behavior", and not a safety issue. He also clarified that after he initially mentioned the problem, it became clear that his issue was distinct from the others reported in the media, and he didn't know if it was a widespread problem, or confined to his single car - but in any case, using the brakes always worked to stop the car, unlike most of the unintended acceleration cases in the media.