Another Windows 8 Pre-Beta Surfaces 534
angry tapir writes "While Microsoft has not announced the release date of its follow-up to Windows 7, an early pre-beta version of Windows 8 (although its official name has not been confirmed) has surfaced on the Internet, the second version to appear within a month. It is the second milestone release that has showed up on the Internet this month. Users of this Windows 8 software have said it features a Ribbon-based user-interface, similar to the one used in recent editions of Microsoft Office. This specific milestone build also has software for a Webcam, a new task manager, a PDF reader and an immersive browser." "Surfacings" like this tell me that Microsoft sees the value in crowdsourced opinion gathering far more than they're sometimes given credit for.
new user-interface is a bad idea and may slow down (Score:3, Insightful)
new user-interface is a bad idea and may slow down users moving to windows 8.
Some places are still stuck on XP and are moving to 7 now and now 8 is on the way with a new GUI?
also what software / hardware that works in XP / 7 will windows 8 not work with?
Shit gets shittier (Score:4, Insightful)
Users of this Windows 8 software have said it features a Ribbon-based user-interface, similar to the one used in recent editions of Microsoft Office.
Overheard at Microsoft: "Hey guys, you know that ribbon interface that everybody hated? How about we put it everywhere in the system?"
What's next, will they bring back Bob and Clippy as well?
Re:Shit gets shittier (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft has a history of shoving features down users throats no matter how much they complain. People loathed Clippy, so what did Microsoft do? They added an animated dog to Windows XP.
Re:Shit gets shittier (Score:3, Insightful)
Xp (Score:0, Insightful)
>a Ribbon-based user-interface, similar to the one used in recent editions of Microsoft Office.
>software for a Webcam,
>a new task manager,
>a PDF reader
>an immersive browser.
Gotta wonder why Microsoft aren't selling XP any more, 'cause this is THE BEST possible advert they could ever make.
Re:PDF reader? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Shit gets shittier (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, we know some like menus, but as screen resolutions grow, ribbons are the definite way to go. If you don't have a large screen, you will notice collapsing your ribbon will save you about 10 vertical pixels, while the number of clicks to get somewhere remains the same (1~2).
Ribbons? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ribbons? RIBBONS?
The most useless POS interface ever.
Re:Why post this here? (Score:2, Insightful)
Because the ribbon interface hides things from you in more aggressive ways than did the dropdown menu interface? Because the ribbon interface in office broke shortcut keys that required otherwise incompetent finance and HR people to re-build their cheat sheets, and resulted in months of hassle as IT people the world over got called incessantly on "How do you do Mail Merge again?" type problems, when there were more pressing matters to attend with?
Because the whole reason that Microsoft implemented the ribbon UI was because of turtleneck wearing LA majors in silicon valley saying "It looks ugly, I don't like it." while drinking a double latte from starbucks, while posting from a Macbook air?
Seriously, I absolutly HATE the new UIs in windows vista and windows 7. Hated the "Aqua" UI in XP too-- First thing I do on XP machines is enable the "Classic UI". Cant even do that now on win7.
Here's an idea, just because something is new, does not mean it is better. Likewise, if something isn't broken, don't fix it.
These ideals are why you will see real power users and real computer geeks extolling the virtues of the CLI. (An interface that has been around for more than 30 years.)
The beef isn't that "Your computer illiterate fiance cannot figure it out"-- it is that if the UI isnt broken, then there is no reason to fix it. You can give the overall appearance a facelift, but dont change the core functionality with something untested and unproven without a means of reverting it to the more tried and true method.
Guess what I will do on windows8 systems? (If microsoft lets me that is...)
You guessed it. Classic Interface.
Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature (Score:5, Insightful)
The main reason is because Task Manager is often used to try and regain control of a system which has stopped responding. It must be a small and efficient program so that it can be loaded and used when the system is low on resources (like processor time, memory, or even handles). It provides enough information for the user to determine resource usage for the system and running processes, and provides enough functionality for user to manage them. It is not meant to be used for in-depth performance analysis or detailed process information.
You'll notice that the "Services" tab which was added under Vista is very slow to populate when clicked. This is most likely no accident that it loads the service information from the registry on demand (only when the tab is clicked) instead of retreiving and storing it when Task Manager is first opened.
Process Explorer allows you to peek into intricate process details like handles and loaded DLL's, you can even view the strings in the DLL's memory. It also provides extremely detailed information about the system, like loaded drivers, DPC's and even hardware interrupts (which even interrupt the kernel scheduler and can't be tracked by standard Windows programming methods). This much information is great for doing a deep investigation of a driver or system issue, but is not necessary (and may even be confusing to many users) for regular process management.
They also probably do not include it in Windows because of anti-trust claims and such. They do not include software from most of their product lines in Windows anymore (even extremely useful things like Word Viewer, Windows Live Photo Gallery, or Windows Mobile Device Center). They are left to the user to download and install... If they included a checkbox in Task Manager for Process Explorer, competitors may cry that it's bundling.
Re:Ribbons? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ribbons in applications and O/S are not like tabs in browsers.
Quite right! However they do roughly provide functionality similar to tabs and if you were to explain the ribbon interface to someone from 1998 or to a lay person the tab anology would be one effective way. I googled "tab navigation" and one of the first results provides a great example of what are commonly referred to as "tabs" [smashingmagazine.com].
Browsers show the same functional tools regardless of what tab you are on (similar to a sheet in excel). On the other hand ribbons hide different tools behinds 6-8 separate ribbon sections that are usually clicked through where all the buttons have a similar background and 'icons' making it hard to search through as opposed to a File - menu - list with text that a person can scan through in about 2 seconds.
Browsers tabs feature a description (typically the meta title) much like the ribbon interface. The content area below the title area changes when different "tabs" are selected, this functionality is present in both UI. I appreciate your comparison and you're correct with many details yet you do not seem to recognize these interface elements as tabs. Another example: We still have the start menu dynamic from Windows 95 today in Windows 7 (and similar features found in several popular window managers) whose interaction and function have changed little. Bar at the bottom featuring a button, click the button and a menu pops up, select items etc.
One can enable an overlay of key short cuts over the ribbon interface so you do not have to use the mouse however the search time still takes just as long unless you knew the key-binding shortcuts from previous versions.
Change is hard. One is more productive with a tool one is familiar with... perhaps you're not the target audience for these largely superficial changes. It also is apparent you're familiar with efficient usage (keyboard shortcuts) and these largely superficial changes shouldn't be difficult to figure out.
Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature (Score:4, Insightful)
What I've never understood is why MS didn't just make the Sysinternals 'Process Explorer' the default task manager
Or even better--in this day and age, why aren't the SysInternals tools pre-packaged into an MSI for easy deployment to machines complete with a %PATH% modifier so you can just push and run...?
Re:Shit gets shittier (Score:5, Insightful)
People are resistant to change. As a software developer, I'm sick of my boss saying "we can't make things better because it'll disrupt users". Fuck that. Let's disrupt some goddamn users so we aren't stuck with Win 3.1 interfaces everywhere. Software evolves. The first interface is not the best. People should evolve with it.
Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm an "older people". Guess what - it was older people who built the first PC's. In fact, all the people who created the first operating systems are older people now. We made your apps, your games, your everything.
Alright, I'll make an effort to be fair here. Probably 20% of the people my age have never owned a PC, and never will. Another large percentage has never done anything with a PC other than check email, play a couple of games, and maybe read Fox News headlines. Many of the rest have never diddled in the registry, and have almost no idea how to diagnose or cure a virus problem - that's all automatic with the version of Norton shipped on the computer from Dell (or HP or Gateway or) and if that doesn't take care of it then the computer shop can fix it.
But, it isn't just older people. I can find a few dozen youngsters (25 and younger) who have no clue about the internal workings of a computer just as easily as older people. No freaking clue.
Older people. Phhht. Wait 'til you're an octogenarian, and the young pukes are making fun of you. Ha! More, I hope you live to be 120, and you have to tolerate the condescending bullshit from the kids for all of your last 40 years or more.
Re:The task manager is definitely the best feature (Score:3, Insightful)
I still remember WinNT and my Amiga hard disk.
I used it with Linux+UAE at work, and with my Amiga at home. It worked fine.
Then something tempted me to see how would WinNT react to it.
After good 12h of recovery of my files I knew for sure. NEVER trust Microsoft. They LIE.
Re:The Ribbon: (Score:4, Insightful)
I just tested a line graph in Excel 2010, double clicked on the Y axis and the Format Axis dialog popped up. Same for the X Axis.
You seem to be wrong.