China's High-Speed Trains Coming Off the Rails 347
Hugh Pickens writes "The Washington Post reports that China's expanding network of ultramodern high-speed trains is coming under growing scrutiny over costs and because of concerns that builders ignored safety standards in the quest to build faster trains in record time as new leadership at the Railways Ministry announced that to enhance safety, the top speed of all trains was being decreased from about 218 mph to 186. Without elaborating, the ministry called the safety situation 'severe' and said it was launching safety checks along the entire network of tracks. Meanwhile China's Finance Ministry announced that the Railways Ministry continues to lose money as the ministry's debt stands at $276 billion, almost all borrowed from Chinese banks. 'In China, we will have a debt crisis — a high-speed rail debt crisis,' says Zhao Jian, a professor at Beijing Jiaotong University and longtime critic of high-speed rail who worries that the cost of the project might have created a hidden debt bomb that threatens China's banking system. 'I think it is more serious than your subprime mortgage crisis. You can always leave a house or use it. The rail system is there. It's a burden. You must operate the rail system, and when you operate it, the cost is very high.'"
Safety Standards? (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh really? You mean there are existing safety standards for new technology?
And here I thought it was just the engineer's conservative estimates...
Re:Safety Standards? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh really? You mean there are existing safety standards for new technology?
And here I thought it was just the engineer's conservative estimates...
Well since the train designs are stolen^H^H^H similar to the Japanese and German high speed trains, there must be relevent safety standards.
Don't think I will take a trains herein the USA (Score:2, Interesting)
either. When I go to Europe, I see them continuously replacing the ties with new ones, I guess the rails themselves along with it. Concrete ties are not uncommon.
Last year, in my area, the traffic signal for a train came down and I had to wait 10 minutes for this slow movng freight train. When it finally was within sight, the rail jumped up 24 inches, along with these half-rotten ties (they must have been ancient), completely out of the ground! It was nuts. Then as the train was going over it, any time there was a space in the wheels, it kept flopping up and down, until the train left and there was quite a bit of distance from it.
It looked so freaking dangerous, I was concerned enough to call with the local train authorities, and they were like "Yeah, that's normal. Why you think we make the freight trains move so slow in the first place" and basically hung up on me without wanting to even know exactly where.
This ties in with China's false economy... (Score:5, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Government-created debt crises (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, China is about due. Japan and the USA (along with Greece, Ireland, Spain, and others) ignored basic economic principles and are paying the price. (I'm NOT talking about the Tsunami tragedy in Japan, but the stagnation of the economy.) "Stimulus" money has to come from the places where it's produced, and is a by-product of productivity. If you loan money to people or projects, those recipients need to have the means to pay it back. Governments do not produce anything, so they must get their money from those who are productive. To "stimulate" the economy, they are taking it from productive projects (Exports), skimming expenses off the top and then sending it back as "stimulus" funds. The other alternative is to create money out of thin air, which causes inflation. Either way, the so-called "stimulus" loses its effectiveness the more often it is used. Japan's last big stimulus attempts created almost no movement in their economy; not even short-term.
China's rail problem is not the cause of the bank problems: The cause is that banks were forced to loan money to unsound projects at unrealistic rates. China has huge amounts of "Sovereign Wealth" due to their absolute and competitive advantages over their Western customers, but they have no place to put it, internal to China. Distributing it to unsound projects wastes resources and unbalances the internal economy. Some infrastructure development could bolster the economy (like toll roads in the USA). However, the implication derived from the banker's statements is that the "tolls" from operating the railway are not sufficient to service the debts. Banks don't get their money back and the government gets to subsidize a losing project. (Sound familiar?)
Re:Safety Standards? (Score:4, Interesting)
Depends on which train we're talking about.
One is a clone of the German Siemens Velaro train models while the other one is a Japanese design developed for their Shinkansen network.
Not sure about French designs but IIRC the Chinese also have some Italian Pendolino trains somewhere.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (Score:4, Interesting)
How do you get severe cost overruns on *rail*?
Trains can carry an entire ton of cargo 500 miles while expending a single gallon of diesel fuel. Because of the extremely steady load, train engines routinely pull a million miles or more (with an overhaul every few hundred thou) before needing replacement.
Further, train tracks cost much less to maintain per mile than roads.
Now, I do realize that I'm referring partially to cargo rail common in the USA, rather than the higher speed passenger trains, but even so, the costs per passenger mile for any train should be dramatically less than car, bus, or plane.
Sounds like corruption at work, if you ask me. (Same as the USA loan crisis)
You won't take them in the US since they are slow (Score:5, Interesting)
The US is almost entirely a heavy rail system, made for freight. It is an extremely efficient way of moving lots of cargo, costs 0.5-1% of what it does by truck energy wise. It is also heavily used. It isn't like only a little stuff goes by rail, tons does. In Flagstaff, AZ which is bisected by a major east-west rail line you have a large train go through about once every 15-20 minutes, 24 hours a day.
You'll notice that there are not catastrophes involving trains all the time. Accidents happen, but they are not that common. The rules for what works with a train weighing thousands of tons and traveling at 20-70mph depending on the area are different than one weighing on a couple hundred and traveling at 100+mph.
The US system is not designed for high speed passenger transit, but it works great for moving freight.
No, rail uses a third less energy than truck (Score:2, Interesting)
No, rail uses a third less energy than truck. Gross weight for trains can be over 800 ton miles per gallon, and over 200 ton miles per gallon for truck.
Yes, the US freight rail system is world class. Shame the politicians focus on high speed rail.