Proposal For Gnome To Become Linux-Only 292
Moderator writes "Could Gnome drop support for non-Linux operating systems? That was a recent proposal on the Gnome mailing list, although there were significant objections in response. Quoting: 'It is harmful to pretend that you are writing the OS core to work on any number of different kernels...the time has come for GNOME to embrace Linux a bit more boldly.'"
Lets look at it (Score:2, Interesting)
BSD: Pretty much super niche. Gnome is probably too bloated for their lean and mean servers anyways
Solaris: Only got support because Sun dumped a pile of money to replace CDE? Maybe not but none the less, the dream of thin client computing in the form of remote desktops seems a distant dream that is thankfully dead.
Linux: The duopoly of desktop environments means that Gnome needs to be very competitive here
Windows: On windows, the gnome support helps port over many familiar Linux based apps to a windows world which is great for Linux people who are forced to work in a windows world, but the apps have little to zero adoption from 'Windows users' themselves, or so I've noticed
OSX: I can't really say much about it. Are OSX Gnome apps considered first class citizens or are they marginalized much the same way it is in windows?
Embedded: Well, as long as its embedded Linux, I guess it wouldn't be a problem
Other OS? Opinions?
WTF? (Score:5, Interesting)
Gnome is supposed to be written to support X Windows.
I currently use gnome on my Linux and FreeBSD platforms, and have for quite some years. Now they're looking to tell the rest of us to PFO because they've tied themselves too tightly to Linux ... why is it even tied to the kernel anyway?
The end result will be that I and others won't use Gnome at all (not even on my Linux installs) ... but, hey, if your "be all you can be" plan is all about working on only one system, that's fine. Just don't be surprised when the number of people who use it drops off.
How the community wants to do things (Score:4, Interesting)
Outside a few egomaniacs with a one distro to bind them all mentality, this is not how things have been done up till now. I don't think the larger community wants to change either.
FreeDesktop.org has turned out some nice software but I don't like what they doing. Its one thing to suggest some high-level standards and try to create some consistency among projects that are already tied to a set of core libraries, its another to have to assume your specific daemon systemd or whatever is running. There is no reason to require something like that when it would be simple enough to abstract things in away that highlevel stuff like a gtk dialog can start an stop services in whatever way a particular distro wants to set things up.
Taking Gnome entirely Linux specific is the same deal, it means you have to accept a whole heap of stuff and conventions or you can't use it all. Thats dumb, ultimately its going to make distributions more varied not less. As a few core decisions will determine the entire software stack.
Over the short term it will enable people to polish up somethings and make them work real nice, as time marches on though its going to mean that something written for a Debian based distro wont be portable at all to something based on REHL or Slackware, or any of the BSDs. We will all end up with few software choices not more.
Can you get Gnome to replace X? (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem is that Gnome has always fit in an odd spot. Above X11 (which is OS/Hardware Dependent's) and below the Windows Manager (In which GNOME often lets you choose who you want, to an extent). I would think Gnome Development if becomeing a Linux-Only product should be used to help remove X11 from Linux.
X11 has become Linux's problem.
The XWindows system was designed as a way to view a GUI over a network. For its time it was quite good at what it needed to do. Sending vector images, common commands to the X Server to display the images worked wonderfully in a world of simple graphics and low bandwith. Today it is becoming extra overhead. Performing rather slow over the network compared to newer tools even RDP is fast compared to X11. And more time is being spent to make it perform well. Problems with trying integrate Open And Closed source drivers and stability issues. Have made the need for X11 out of date. Gnome having a large applicationbase already using its API could create a situation where it can replace X11 and give Linux a Modern approach to the UI. Much like how Apple did it with OS X over a decade ago. Being able to Give Linux a GUI that is more advanced the Windows or OS X because its new core for UI is based on the 21st century technology vs. 20th century. Things like Resolution independent displays, better integrated 3d, and multi-touch. Many things we have now but are made as a hacked add on vs a core development of the UI.
Linux should no longer bother wining the desktop. Let Microsoft keep the desktop, Linux need to win Mobile, and Touch pads. Otherwise Linux will win the desktop space only after the desktop is irrelevant. Although much of us Old Fogies will fight against the idea of the Desktop demise, I doubt it will die but it will become like the mainframe a generation ago, moved from a needed device for computing to reserved for functions that it is really good at. We still have mainframes new ones running and selling but not for every company. Just as with desktops/laptops it will move to software development and CAD firms. Pushing other companies to go with more mobile devices, and perhaps like the iPad with an optional external keyboard just for writing letters.
Re:Abandoned (Score:3, Interesting)
This is about the GNOME Toolkit (GTK) rather than the GNOME shell itself (which doesn't run on Windows AFAIK). The Windows port allows applications like GIMP to run on Windows.
Removing support for other environments would be a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it would allow you to concentrate more efforts on making the Linux features better. On the flipside, it could really hurt open-source adoption - if GTK apps become unavailable on Windows, you obviously can't try them out without running Linux, which is a bridge too far for many people. If you try out GTK apps, and like them, they become a bridge to adopting Linux ; you can be sure that the apps you found useful are available to you on your new platform.
I'd probably not have too many qualms about dropping support for OS/X - after all, they are in a minority. But I can't help but feel that dropping support for Windows is a mistake.
Gnome developers and mental disorder (Score:2, Interesting)
Gnome has become a mental disorder. While I believe, as tvelocity has pointed out [slashdot.org], that the headline is not altogether accurate, still this is just one in a series of steps Gnome has staggered into, by which it is rapidly degenerating into a pool of crap. Witness: the train wreck of Gnome3 and Gnome Shell, which is complete garbage. Gnome2 should be forked and development continued by people with functioning brains. I'm not going to go ballistic, because KDE does not seem to be losing its mind, notwithstanding the strange preoccupation that was the pointless KDE4 re-architecting. And there is always Xfce and LXDE, though these are nowhere near as rich as Gnome2.
There is plenty of this madness going around, like ubuntu pushing Unity like a drug dealer, where there is no user demand at all to change from Gnome2.
Re:Can you get Gnome to replace X? (Score:2, Interesting)
Apple is a big fat loser when it comes to remote display. Now many people might be willing to abandon that feature but it can be a very handy thing. In fact, it's such a handy thing that it has been a standard feature for Windows users in corporate environments. I can see how people might criticize the features of remote performance of X when compared to Win7 RDP but this stuff is a disaster in MacOS. It's the sort of afterthought bolt on hack that the OP is whining about. ...and the wayland idiots seem intent on recreating Apple's mistakes here.
Re:I support this! (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't give a shit about Gtk+. However, Glib is critical to my ability to port certain software to other OS's; lots of Unix software uses a Glib event loop, GObject's, GModule's, and GThread's underneath. If Gtk+ goes Linux only, how long until Glib also does?
Re:Can you get Gnome to replace X? (Score:2, Interesting)
The fact that we put a lot of resources to keep X modern is besides the point. If you are going to switch your resources to make Gnome Linux only then Gnome should do more of Linux Only type of work, bypassing all the legacy the X11 has been carrying around.
I also fail to see how the Apple GUY actually sucks especially when you compare it to Linux, on the Mac I never had problem with Copy and Past, and still Linux still struggles and it is a crapshoot if it work across applications or not.
I don't know about you but over a Decade Linux you still cant duplicate a feature that has been working solidly in other systems for over a generation.
Re:Dumb Idea (Score:4, Interesting)
KDE is far from the only recourse, as there are a number of other Desktop Environments already in common use, including XFCE and Unity/GNOME 2. However, GNOME requiring systemd would be a giant mistake as it would be a kick in the face not only for non-Linux based OSes, but for any Linux-based distro that use a different init. I haven't followed the Canonical /GNOME controversies much, but this inclines me to think Canonical isn't being as unreasonable as some think to diverge from GNOME. Optional systemd integration is probably a good idea.
Re:I support this! (Score:2, Interesting)
Man I'm just reading this conversation and this kind of talk is the reason why people are afraid of Linux.
You're aggressive, classroom jeering, calling people 'n00bs' (using the word n00b rather than newbie makes people lose any respect for you, whatever you're saying) you're taking something so minor in the scheme of things and unable to accept that someone can have a different opinion to you.
One day you will need to get over yourself and respect others opinions. I'm a fan of one of your posts and that doesn't excuse how you're acting like an ass.