James Gosling Report of Reno Air Crash 338
Earlier today, a tragic crash at the Reno National Championship Air Races killed at least 12 spectators, and left at least 75 injured. Reader xmas2003 writes with a link to Java creator James Gosling's first-hand account of the crash, which he describes as "better than most of what is being reported in mainstream media so far."
Re:Thought the potential of crashes was the point. (Score:4, Insightful)
also the planes are cool
Correct, you do not understand (Score:5, Insightful)
Thought the potential of crashes was the point or do I just not understand air shows?
As someone who attended quite a few air shows growing up I feel it is safe to say that people go to see the airplanes. Hell I would have gone to see a P-51 sitting on the tarmac let alone fly. Seeing one crash and be destroyed is not something that an aviation or history enthusiast wants to see, nor does anyone want to see people get hurt.
From Gosling's blog in case it goes down. (Score:5, Insightful)
Friday September 16, 2011
Just fucking barely. I'm at the air races in Reno with a bunch of friends and a horrific accident just happened. One of the very high end racers, going about 500 mph, lost control and nose dived straight into the audience. The news is currently saying that the plane missed the grandstand, but that's only technically true: in front of the grandstand there are several rows of box seats. It impacted right in the middle of them. I was in a box seat with my friends only 50 feet from the impact. I was watching the plane as it lost control, so I saw the whole thing. The impact happened so fast, there was hardly any sound: just one huge shock wave. No fireball. The plane, and many people, disintegrated instantly, right in front of me. There were bodies everywhere. No crash you've ever seen in a movie is even remotely authentic.
Update: it's already on YouTube. I was in the middle of the dust cloud you see around the impact. They're saying "30 serious injuries" but I know that's a long way from the truth. At least that many died instantly in the impact. I suspect that there were not a huge number of serious injuries. It was not a small airplane. You either died or you didn't. I didn't. My brother and I are still shaking.
Another Update: They're now officially calling it a "mass casualty situation". The plane was Galloping Ghost, piloted by Jimmy Leeward. It was a very cool, highly modified, P51 mustang with a very unusual approach to engine cooling. I doubt that this was at all connected to the accident - it looked like a control system failure.
80 year old pilot (Score:2, Insightful)
Am I the only one who finds it strange that an 80 year old man was permitted to fly high speed low altitude stunts at an air show? Most people that age have difficulty driving cars. I wouldn't care if the man knew more about flying than any man alive reaction speed and strength diminish with age its a fact of life.
Re:Trajectory (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What happened to the setback and trajectory reg (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a huge difference between an unlimited air race and a display airshow. Display airshows are flown ate relatively slow speeds nowhere near the 500mph of unlimited racers
"Second, air show performers â" both civilian and military â" are prohibited from performing maneuvers that direct the energy of their aircraft toward the area in which the spectators are sitting."
The race course is parallel to the runway so clause has been followed. The issue is that a 500mph unlimited racer with control issues can come down miles away from where the control problem happened and in any direction. They don't usually just fall out of the sky like display aircraft. Even if the planned direction was not toward the audience there is no way of knowing where an aircraft with control problems will come down.
"Third, the industry and regulatory authorities strictly enforce minimum set-back distances that were developed to ensure that, in the event of an accident, pieces of the aircraft will not end up in the spectator area."
That only works if the aircraft crashes under the planned flight path. If it veers off course due to a control problem this is moot.
Moral dilemma: (Score:0, Insightful)
This is yet another incident resulting in death where a seemingly large number of people were involved in shooting Youtube video or snapping photos when the spectators could have provided assistance to the injured.
I was present during a multi-car pileup with two rollovers in 2006 in front of a Borders in Fort Lauderdale where an older male was trapped upside down in his Lexus SUV that was leaking gas onto the tarmac, while approx. 20 persons where huddled around the vehicle shooting cell phone video (and giggling, etc.) and not a single person made any effort to rescue the trapped person.
I approached the scene and kicked the window out, placed his floor mats on the pavement (due to glass), and extracted him from his vehicle. One other individual (previously shooting video) assisted in the extraction.
The individual in the SUV later complained about breaking the window, etc. (even through his vehicle was totaled), and threatened a lawsuit (me).
There is some serious desensitization taking place and I feel social media may be the catalyst.
Contrast this to another accident where I was present on the German Autobahn traveling from Amsterdam to Frankfurt where an individual jackknifed his boat trailer and probably 30 other motorists pulled over immediately to render aid to the driver and remove the trailer and vehicle from the motorway by hand.
I don't know if this is strictly an American phenomenon as the Autobahn incident occurred probably 10 years ago - but the German motorists weren't concerned about lawyers or Youtube during the accident, but were focused on the victim and clearing the motorway first and foremost (not lawyers).
Re:Sitting a few feet from 600 mph objects not wis (Score:2, Insightful)
People do it because it's unwise. The thrill comes from being in danger. As it turns out, a placid life pushing paper does not provide sufficient opportunity for adrenalin release, and most people are about as exciting as a turtle on valium, so they need to expose themself to risk while sitting on their ass because they certainly won't get out and do anything themselves.
25% of American men still smoke, so we didn't get that much less stupid. In fact, I think we're only stopping smoking because we're being told to. Intelligence would be making our own decisions. We started smoking (As a nation) because Hollywood told us to.
Re:What happened to the setback and trajectory reg (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no "safe distance" really. As I stated in my previous post, one of those aircraft could conceivably travel up to 100 miles or more in any direction.
Given that he was 74 years old the odds of him passing out due to the forces involved were quite high.
You don't understand the thorough testing those pilots must pass. If he wasn't physically & mentally capable he wouldn't be allowed to fly, especially racing, period. Besides, having that many decades of experience flying means I'd trust him before I'd trust some twenty-something to safely pilot an aircraft I was a passenger on. It was also reported by eyewitnesses that it appeared there was a control surface failure of some sort. It wouldn't matter in that case how young or old the pilot was, how the course was laid out, distance, etc.
You're opining out of ignorance here.
In the 21st century people should be doing better than Waldo's Flying Circus, it's as simple as that.
But this is the equivalent of a "Flying Circus" (in the form of a race) that people are *paying* to spectate at through their own free will. Just as in any activity involving large human-controlled/piloted/driven objects/vehicles traveling at extreme velocities at the edge of control, there is risk both to the actual participants and to spectators.
The risks can be mitigated to some extent but not eliminated. The risks are part of the draw both for participants and spectators. If it wasn't risky, there would be little challenge and little interest. Heck, spectators have died at freaking baseball games for crying out loud.
One must accept some risk of injury or death if one desires to spectate in person at an inherently dangerous event like an auto or aircraft race. If you are unwilling to accept the risks, then watch it on video from your home.
You're *much* more likely to die or be critically injured on the drive to or from the air race than spectating. Spectating at air races has resulted in far, far fewer spectator injuries than car racing. That's despite the fact that you can't build a "retaining wall" around the sky as you can around auto racing tracks.
With the level of fear and risk-aversion you demonstrate by your comments I'm surprised you're able to leave your residence. Or get out of bed.
Strat