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Nokia-Siemens Axing 17,000 Positions 87

Posted by Unknown Lamer
from the competition-is-tough dept.
alphadogg writes with troubling news for the network hardware joint-venture between Nokia and Siemens. Quoting the article: "Struggling network infrastructure vendor Nokia Siemens Networks is planning to cut 17,000 jobs worldwide, as it aims to cut $1.35 billion from its costs by the end of 2013, the company said Wednesday. About 23% of the company's 74,000 employees will be laid off. The 4 1/2-year-old joint venture between Nokia and Siemens has been struggling to compete with Swedish Ericsson and Chinese vendor Huawei. Parent company Nokia's ongoing problems have made Nokia Siemens' situation even more difficult."
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Nokia-Siemens Axing 17,000 Positions

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  • by KermodeBear (738243) on Wednesday November 23, 2011 @01:36PM (#38150178) Homepage

    Any idea on which countries will have the most positions lost? The article didn't mention this bit. Really is too bad, this is not a great time to be out of a job.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23, 2011 @02:15PM (#38150546)

      Hi, European NSN employee here. The company is selling or putting into "permanent maintenance mode" basically all of its R&D business units with the exception of CDMA/LTE Mobile Broadband unit. This means that Packet Networks (Carrier Ethernet + MPLS), Optical Networks and Microwave Transport are being cut. Hopefully the B.U. will be sold (it already happened with Microwave Transport) and the engineers won'tl be fired.
      At the cost of sounding vendicative and resented (I confess, I am, a little bit), let me say that NSN has been a complete mess since day 1 (april 2007). We have been struggling from day one with bad management, bad planning, bad product line definition, bad choices, millions and millions of money wasted with idiotic things, while headcount in Europe continously got less and less (and India and China grew) to be more competitive with Huawei, Ericcson, etc... And even in all of that, we did some excellent products.
      However NSN grew from 60000 (Nokia Networks + Siemens Networks merge) to 74000 with Motorola Networks acquisition *even if right after 1 month from the merge they started headcount reduction and voluntary leave plans*. We have been struggling psychologically with that for 4 years. It seems that it will be over soon.

      • Out of mod points, but this one needs it

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Hope you all find work with more productive endeavors soon. Maybe even with some of the competitors listed in the article. It is always painful to hear about poorly directed labor resources, but the sooner a shift is made, the sooner a more sustainable allocation of labor can happen and the sooner more wealth can be created. Good luck to all those who were fired in finding new and better work.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Other EU employee here. Sorry, but not all is going maintenance, some strategic business lines are getting extra fund and attention. Same for some countries. Additionally, we finally acknowledge who are our customers (telcos) and who is not (almost everyone else).

        Where most of the cuts are is where the product lines are. All these things we will stop developing will mean headcount reduction. For what I know, in europe, it means portugal, finland, germany, poland. Pretty sure India will suffer as well. No i

      • by Anonymous Coward

        When they hire people it's said they 'create' jobs. So it's only fair to call this 'destroying' jobs.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23, 2011 @01:38PM (#38150190)

    Unless perhaps you're looking at a CEO's salary, there are other areas besides HR that cost a company money. Add to that:

    The 4 1/2-year-old joint venture between Nokia and Siemens has been struggling to compete with Swedish Ericsson and Chinese vendor Huawei.

    Equipment and facilities can be purchased or leased again. But innovation and attracting and retaining key talent is priceless. What are they losing in order to save their budget?

    • by Grishnakh (216268) on Wednesday November 23, 2011 @01:46PM (#38150272)

      Equipment and facilities can be purchased or leased again. But innovation and attracting and retaining key talent is priceless. What are they losing in order to save their budget?

      Who cares? It's more important that they keep their profits high for each quarter, so the CEO can get a bigger bonus. Why should the CEO care about his company's long-term future?

      • by jazman_777 (44742)
        More than that, why should the shareholders--the frickin' owners--care? They bail at the slightest hint of decline.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Slashing people shows bankers a willingness to be ruthless assholes so they will then loan money. I've seen various solutions, none that do much good.

      In one case I know of the Nokia cellphone side gutted the staff of a critical infrastructure product that was intended to bring up a US data center.

      They 'laid off' everyone with zero notice and pretty much told to go home.

      The way they terminated those employees is what rankled. They got the standard Nokia severance.

      A friend in that group went on to make more m

      • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23, 2011 @02:37PM (#38150762)

        They 'laid off' everyone with zero notice and pretty much told to go home.

        The way they terminated those employees is what rankled. They got the standard Nokia severance.

        I will bite. As a Nokia Employee for the last 4 years("the hard years"), I can tell you that getting laid off from Nokia is a good deal.

        I would prefer to be laid off immediately with an amazing severance. Being told that you are being let go and hanging around is a real morale killer for yourself and the remaining workers.

        A friend in that group went on to make more money, less bureaucracy, better health care and much better job security and they didn't have to get any windows phone shit on them.

        Nice for him(or they?). I'm sure having Nokia on his resume helped him land that job. I'm not quite sure I understand though why this is relevant since Nokia pays well, has very good healthcare and the job security was great until the company fell on hard times. Business is a competition and that secure job might not be so pretty in a few years.

    • by gl4ss (559668)

      look, if you got 70k people.. then yes, it is a significant cost of doing business. a very significant cost.
      at least they're looking like they'll get severance, but it's a lot of folk outside those that also lose(have lost) jobs. the performance of nsn hasn't exactly been stellar, I suppose they knew that too.

      • by Talderas (1212466)

        $1.35B / 17,000 = ~$79,500 annual cost per employee.

        Assuming those cost savings are purely employee related of course... salaries, benefits, training, etc. Easily can come out to $80k for a single employee.

  • Qt? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Prien715 (251944) <agnosticpope.gmail@com> on Wednesday November 23, 2011 @02:03PM (#38150406) Journal

    Nokia bought TrollTech some years ago and while they didn't fire a bunch of employees after their switch to Windows Mobile, I'm guessing with this move TrollTech's development efforts will be harder to justify. It's unfortunate really.

    On the positive side, unemployment here in Norway is below 4% at the moment. And maybe the strategic direction of Qt will go back to...devices people actually have.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Nokia Siemens Networks has nothing to do with QT which seems to be the future of Nokia low end phones.

      • I would think they aren't related since QuickTime (QT) is an Apple product. Oh you meant Qt the C++ framework.

        • by rzr (898397)
          I'll Will ask a nokia representative for Qt on WP7 tomorrow , but who cares ? -- http://rzr.online.fr/q/qt [online.fr]
          • by gl4ss (559668)

            heyy razor.

            haven't you noticed already that nothing nokia says about qt has actually happened 12 months down the line like they said?

            that said, I don't think qt has future on WP, on the other hand.. qt has a future - and is still very much a current tech.

    • What the fuck has Nokia Siemens Networks to do with Qt, Windows Mobile or TrollTech?

      • by gl4ss (559668)

        What the fuck has Nokia Siemens Networks to do with Qt, Windows Mobile or TrollTech?

        money. same answer to "what the fuck has nokia mobile phones to do with nsn".

    • You can develop in Python too if you want. Hell, you can write bash scripts if you want... Which makes it an intriguing multi purpose mobile computing device which can talk to anything.

      You just can't buy one if you are in UK, Germany, USA etc. Wonder why.

  • It tolls for thee!
  • Everyone is saying IT is immune from the economy. This should be a wakeup call for all those feeling snug.

    Our sector can and will get hit too- especially the longer the economic doldrums and uncertainty lasts.

    • by scamper_22 (1073470) on Wednesday November 23, 2011 @02:35PM (#38150742)

      "Everyone is saying IT is immune from the economy"

      who is saying that?
      The only people who say that are those who profit from saying it. Educational institutions who want more business. CEOs and others who want more cheap labor. Governments who have become dependent on infinite economic growth to fuel their spending.

      Talk to regular people, regular engineers... and we all say IT is just as vulnerable. With free trade and a globally educated work force... most of IT is as expendable as manual labor is. Sure if you're in the top 1% of your field, you might always have a job...but that's pretty much true of any active field.

    • by LordNimon (85072)

      Everyone is saying IT is immune from the economy.

      What? I don't know anyone who says that.

      • Read slashdot. Everyday I read comments from people on here saying how great IT is; how we don't *understand* the occupy movement because IT isn't hurt by the economy, and how the down economy isn't touching them because they are in IT and how many head-hunters rang them up asking for their resume.

        We may be less affected than other industries- but it does hit home with us too.

        • We don't understand the occupy movement because the occupy movement don't even understand themselves. It's got nothing to do with being smug about how recession proof IT is, because anybody with two functioning brain cells will tell you that it's not.

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