Tesla Motors Announces Prices For Their Upcoming Models 503
Shivetya writes with a list of prices for upcoming models from Tesla, noting that "they aren't cheap and the prices are listed assuming the $7500 tax credit. A 160-mile range S will set you back $49,900, the 230-mile is at $59,000, and the 300-mile range S will cost $69,000. Battery sizes are 40, 60, and 85kwh respectively. For your money these cars also include a very large seventeen-inch touchscreen. Is this the electric car you've been waiting for or another rich person's toy?"
Both (Score:5, Insightful)
Can't it be both? Because right now it's both.
No (Score:1, Insightful)
Short of a Mr. Fusion style device I won't be buying one. Can it be refueled from empty to full in 2 minutes like a gasoline engine? What is the battery lifespan? How much will they cost to be replaced?
Re:Both (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah anything over $40k is well into the "rich guy toy" range, good deal or not.
But as with all technology (Score:5, Insightful)
The first "motorized carriages" were quite definitely impractical toys for the rich. See also the first airplanes and pretty much "the first anythings"
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
Battery swapping is going to seem like a laughably silly idea 10 years from now. I think it's silly right now myself.
EV makers should stop trying to appease the "range anxiety" crowd, they can't be appeased. Have battery swap stations at every corner and cars with a 500 mile range and they'll be "anxious" about getting a dud battery and breaking down in the desert they drive through every morning.
I mean the high-end model goes 300 miles. There are only two reasons to have a problem with that range: You actually drive further than that regularly, in which case you have no business driving an electric car right now anyways, or you've got some kind of "range survivalist syndrome" where you're always worried about "what if I run out of juice and then ZOMBIES ATTACK!?"
Re:Tesla (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll give you a call as soon as I have a day when I actually need the towing capacity of diesel truck on a daily basis.
(ever wonder if maybe you weren't the target market?)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Tesla S is revolutionary (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Both (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes and no. Obviously "rich guy" is a relative term but there are plenty of people who plunk down $40K on full-size pickup trucks and SUVs that are firmly seated in the middle of the middle-class. Is it a wise choice given alternatives? Debatable. But the $50K base model is definitely not a "rich guy toy" just a white-collar guy toy.
I'm a software engineer and not what most people in the Western world would call rich, just "comfortable" in my income. I'm actually giving the car serious consideration for purchase in a few years after the lease expires on the next car I'm getting in a month or two. By then hopefully the bugs will be more or less ironed out and production ramped up so there isn't a year long waiting list like their Roadster--a car for which few people would argue against is a rich-guy toy.
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. The cost of replacing the batteries (no doubt with much better batteries) a few years down the road could easily be offset by much cheaper ongoing operating costs.
Re:I can't wait (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:the electric vehicle (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean the high-end model goes 300 miles.
Yeah, and? Our Honda Civic costs less than half as much, goes at least 50% further, and takes a fraction of the time to 'recharge'. We can just manage to drive to my girlfriend's parents house on one tank, whereas if we bought this 'luxury sedan' we'd have to stop for a few hours half-way to charge up... except there's nowhere to do so.
Why would you want a 'luxury sedan' that can't make long journeys, or requires you to hang around waiting for hours on the few routes where you can?
Re:Both (Score:5, Insightful)
45 minutes gets you 80% of capacity. If I wanted to drive from Montreal to Toronto (545KM) with the high-capacity model S (480KM range), you're looking at one single 45 minute refueling stop halfway. So yeah, the trip that takes 6h13m in a gas car now takes 6h58m in the electric car, but that's not a huge difference. And, to be honest, most people stop halfway for lunch when driving to Toronto anyhow, so if you can charge midway while eating, you're potentially not using up any extra time at all.
All this presupposes that there's a recharging station halfway between Montreal and Toronto, although since they're the two largest cities in the country and it's one of the most heavily traveled routes in the country, it's not an unreasonable thing to expect we'll see some recharging stations along that route eventually.
Re:But as with all technology (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with that statement is that it is an average. Probably close to zero Americans actually drive 40 miles per day. The point is this: Only rich people can afford a $60,000 car that is worthless other than for everyday commuting along with a second vehicle for longer trips where stopping for several hours after every 2 hours of driving is impractical. The average American may drive 40 miles per day, but the average American probably does make a one-way driving trip of over 160 miles at least a couple times a year (twice per major traveling holiday).
The average American, in your case, can rent a car twice a year. In fact, they frequently do so after getting in an airplane and travelling many miles. Plenty of people never drive their personal car over 250 miles (the larger range offered) in a single day ... ever.
Re:I can't wait (Score:2, Insightful)
due to not getting Federal funding
No, that should be "due to not making a plausible case for their product being even remotely profitable to make and sell any time in the intermmediate future" - because if it had been, some of the trillions of dollars in desparate-to-invest-in-something-viable cash that's sitting out there in private hands would have been beating a path to their door. We should be thrilled they didn't have the political connections that Solyndra did. Just saved the half of the population that does pay income taxes a pile of cash. Good.
Break even points (Score:4, Insightful)
I really need to find my EV spreadsheet, or rebuild it.
$50k Tesla car vs $25k Chevy Impala(30 mpg). At $4/gallon, and assuming maintenance savings are offset by you actually having to pay for your electricity, it's 6.25k gallons to make up the difference, or 188k miles.
If you assume you're NOT looking at the base model, and instead a $35k car as the 'equivalent, it's $15k/3,750 gallons/113k miles.
Update: Spreadsheet partially done.
Assumptions: $50k Model S vs $25kChevy Impala. 4 miles per kwh, 30 mpg, Insurance is a wash, an extra $320 of maintenance on the gas vehicle, 15k miles driven for each, $.10 electricity, $4 gasoline. 5% interest rate/cost of capital and a 10 year lifespan.
Total Annual Cost: $7,850.23 for the Tesla, $6,557.61 of the Impala. Advantage Impala by $1,292.61
Not quite right - that's for a highway driver using the cheapest available. Upping the cost to $31k for a nicer package, and figuring on a 100% city driver(18mpg), that flips it - the Impala's cost rises to $8,667.98, potentially saving you $817.75/year.
Drive a LOT of city miles, like a taxi driver, if the vehicle has the endurance, use it. Otherwise you might as well plug in your own assumptions.
Re:Both (Score:4, Insightful)
No, they don't.
http://www.evdl.org/docs/powerplant.pdf [evdl.org]
EVs recharging from coal-fired plants will reduce CO2 emissions in this country from 17 to 22 percent
basically : burning gas in a normal car is hideously inefficient.
Re:But as with all technology (Score:4, Insightful)
Ford was also by no means the first car. There were many rich people running around in their horseless cariages long before Ford got in to the game, and without them, it's hard to say if Ford would have been able to do what he did.
Re:Rich is relative (Score:4, Insightful)
But battery swaps would work great for a taxi -- you're usually close to base and have competent drivers and even competent staff at the base.