Chevy Volt Meets High Resistance, GM Suspends Sales 599
Hugh Pickens writes "The Hill reports that GM has announced to employees at one of its facilities that it is suspending production of the Chevy Volt for five weeks and temporarily laying off 1,300 employees. Back when GM launched the beleaguered electric car, it boldly targeted sales of 10,000 in 2011 and 60,000 in 2012 but GM only sold 7,671 Volts in 2011 and just 1,626 so far this year. 'We needed to maintain proper inventory and make sure that we continued to meet market demand,' says GM spokesman Chris Lee. 'We see positive trends, but we needed to make this market adjustment.' Although President Obama promised he would buy a Volt 'five years from now, when I'm not president anymore,' the Volt has come under criticism from Republicans in Congress because of reports of its batteries catching on fire during testing. Ironically, the shutdown comes as gas prices are soaring, exactly the time when an electric car should be an easy sell." If it's still true that GM was taking a loss on every Volt sold, perhaps this is a blessing in disguise.
Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Insightful)
Suspending production != Suspending sales. The two mean quite different things.
Simpler than that (Score:5, Insightful)
Less economical than a Prius
Not as good as a Prius
Costs more than a Prius
Buy a Prius.
To use a reverse car analogy, it's Motorola Xoom to iPad2.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:3, Insightful)
It does mean there is barely any demand for the car, even compared to what they were hoping for.
expected outcome (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Insightful)
Suspending production != Suspending sales. The two mean quite different things.
Very true. The sales number are low, and that's possible related to the cost of a Chevy Volt. I just did a quick search in my area and they're about $40,000. I'm never going to save $15k - $20k in gas over the life of the car, so buying a comparable car that runs on gasoline is probably a better value. There are some tax credits for buying an electric car, but even with those the price is still going to be far more than a "regular" car.
No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
I can buy TWO Ford Focus 40mpg cars for the same price as a Volt.
Unlike other districts, there are no subsidies for the Volt in Saskatchewan.
$20,000 buys a HELL of a lot of gasoline.
Re:Simpler than that (Score:4, Insightful)
Buy a Yaris and actually save gas and money.
Surgeon General Warning: subsidizes are bad. (Score:0, Insightful)
"If it's still true that GM was taking a loss on every Volt sold, perhaps this is a blessing in disguise."
It isn't GM that takes the loss ... its every tax payer that has money taken from them to subsidize this vehicle just because some poll-itician thinks they know what is best for the market.
GM should of never received the bailout ... they should have been allowed to go bankrupt to gives companies like Tesla Motors a chance to do something better with those resources.
Who would have guessed? (Score:5, Insightful)
So with 9297 Volts... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Japan and Europe is where the industry is (Score:3, Insightful)
Hyundai, BMW, Toyota, Honda, etc. all have plants in America. So we have those, at least. Apart from that, the coolest American car is probably the Tesla Roadster. Maybe a Jeep.
With the globalization of the auto industry - like every other industry - and the consolidation of the parts makers (down to VDO, Bosch, Walbro, and a couple of others), more than likely those "American" cars are also, German, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Swiss, English, Mexican, and Canadian.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Insightful)
If I had kharma points I would credit you. I am a fanboy of the Volt but it is out of my price range. There are a lot of hurdles to overcome with the car and they are not doing enough to make it attractive. If you live in an apartment or terrace, it is impractical etc.. If you have the ability it is still going to take some modifications like not everyone has power in the garage etc. So the overall cost is a big problem. I realise that this is an early concept and that prices will come down as people switch but I think that most people will agree with you.
Re:EV1 lovers are MIA (Score:5, Insightful)
The do, and people do.
I don't live in the US any more, but I'm hardly unique (ie, there are people like me still there) who would really love to go electric since our driving patterns are ideally suited to having a small, quiet, economical electric car that you recharge at night at home. (DISCLAIMER: yes, I'm aware, you need to tow your boat from LA to NYC every 2 days while simultaneously carrying 8 people and their luggage and there are no charging stations on route... electric cars useless for everyone etc etc, no possible use case etc etc...)
However, the current economics aren't making them viable - they're just too expensive at the moment but it's a chicken and egg problem since it's early generation tech and in low initial demand.
Don't mistake slow sales of a very expensive electric vehicle as definitive proof of a lack of interest. When (if?) I can buy one for a similar cost (also factoring in fuel costs) to the 2 litre turbodiesel minivan I drive right now (53 mpg EU / 44.1 mpg US) that can easily haul 5 adults and luggage then I am sure sales will pick right up. Cracking that early adopter and economy of scale problem is not easy though. Bear in mind that I also pay around $8 per gallon for diesel in the UK and it's still cheaper than going all-electric right now (or even to hybrid).
Re:Too expensive (Score:4, Insightful)
Without significant subsidies GM would have sold even fewer cars. The subsidy is a just transfer payment to the well off. High efficiency diesel engines are probably the most cost effective option for the masses and our stupid EPA requirements keep best ones out of the USA.
Yes, it is quite stupid of the EPA to worry about nitrogen dioxide. The masses need cost-effective cars, not healthy lungs.
Re:Japan and Europe is where the industry is (Score:0, Insightful)
Perhaps you should drag your self two decades ahead. That hasn't been anywhere near to the truth for over two decades now. Sorry, but your post is just biased ignorance. The WELL DOCUMENTED FACT IS, the difference between all the major brands, until you get into the $50k or more, is so small, it generally doesn't matter which brand you buy. The biggest differences are in models, not brands. Period.
Re:A Joke (Score:3, Insightful)
So Chevrolet's market was people who have lots of money, are willing to spend it with abandon, want a car, but don't really need to drive much. In short, semi-rich idiot hipsters.
You forgot "willing to drive a car that looks like total dogshit". The Prius is ugly but it looks futuristic. The volt is ugly, and it's also ugly.
Re:Who would have guessed? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:expected outcome (Score:2, Insightful)
the batteries need to be fully replaced after 10 years and that costs $20,000.
[Citation needed.]
Re:Japan and Europe is where the industry is (Score:1, Insightful)
Yeah, but the Fords sold in Europe are actually good because... wait for it... they're NOT designed and built in america.
Domestic made Fords are crap, as they've always been, unfortunately. Only GM is on a higher level of crappiness compared to Ford.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Insightful)
Not everyone leases vehicles though. I did once, and I'll never do it again. Tracking how many miles you can put on in a year and hoping you don't change jobs to somewhere further away is a PITA.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not the point, the point is that the headline is _FALSE_
GM is _NOT_ suspending Sales.
unbelievable sloppy editing here.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Insightful)
Guess that explains why California is the most popular market for all-electric vehicles. Oh wait, no it doesn't...
To be on cost-per-mile par with $4.50/gal gasoline electricity would have to cost over $0.50 per kWh. (Comparing 30MPG to 3.5mi/kWh economies). Where in California are people paying north of $0.50 per kWh?
Once you've answered that we can discuss TOU metering schemes that actually make electricity for charging EVs cheaper than the nominal daytime rate.
=Smidge=
Bogus accounting (Score:3, Insightful)
If it's still true that GM was taking a loss on every Volt sold, perhaps this is a blessing in disguise.
This is because the beancounters have set too short a time for the RoI. Large-scale long-term investments like tooling up a car need a long-term RoI. A realistic term would be 15-20 years, given that the immediate product (the Volt) is likely going to have to go through numerous mutations before it settles on a money-making model. Expecting to make back the setup cost in a year or two means that the beancounters or VCs have lost all grasp on reality, if they even had it to start with.
Re:Japan and Europe is where the industry is (Score:5, Insightful)
My 2003 Monte Carlo has 220,000 miles on it. I did choose to replace the motor and trans (both used) at 200,000 miles though instead of rebuilding the trans when the pressure control solenoid gave out and repair would have cost as much as the replacement motor and trans together, so those only have around 72K on them. Runs like a dream and by the condition of the interior and exterior you would never know this car had anywhere near 100K miles much less 220,000. Any car from the "big three" built within the past 20 years that is worth buying these days can go 300,000 miles with basic maintenance. Cars were garbage in the 80's and I think a lot of the mentality around longevity in the US these days is still based on experiences with those cars.
Re:I know, I know (Score:5, Insightful)
"Cannot get 4 adults plus dog plus ancillaries in a Yaris."
Have multiple vehicles. I don't drive my F350 Ford or 366 big block Chevy truck unless I need to, but liability insurance is cheap and they are paid for.
Multiple vehicles allows selection of the right tool for the job.
Or rent what you need when you need it. We have a small car which we mainly use for commuting. When we need something bigger or with more cargo space (like a pickup), we rent from the city carshare program or a regular car rental agency which has surprisingly good weekend rates since they have a glut of cars from business travelers). The city carshare program is especially nice when I have to work late unexpectedly, they have cheap overnight rates and there are several locations within easy walking distance from work so I've always been able to get a car when I need it, even last minute. The overnight car rental rate is cheaper than it would cost to take a cab home.
Our occasional car rental bill is much lower than our car payment would be on a second car.
Re:Japan and Europe is where the industry is (Score:3, Insightful)
Reminds me of the time some old lady chastised me for taking jobs away from American autoworkers.
"Look ma'am, my Honda was built in here in the USA. Where was your Ford built again, Mexico?"
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Insightful)
Selling close to 8000 vehicles where your projections were 10000 isn't that far off the target, and not enough to call it 'barely any demand'.
Everyone's missing the point of the Volt. (Score:4, Insightful)
The volt is a completely new class of car. It's a trailblazer. The first year is always a challenge.
You can't compare a Volt to a Prius or Leaf any more than you can compare a Corvette to a dump truck. Yes, they both have wheels, electric battery packs, and doors, but they are entirely different classes of vehicles.
The Prius is still largely a gasoline-only vehicle. Yes, the plug-in version is out this year, but it only gets you 8-11 miles, vs. the Volt's 30-40 miles. .
The Leaf is electric-only. For the vast majority of Americans, it's stuck as a second car because you can't practically road-trip in it with the current American infrastructure.
The Volt seeks to address these shortfalls.
It is the first production extended range electric vehicle. You cannot compare it to a Prius or Leaf, which are two different classes of vehicles altogether. The Prius's battery pack and electric range are only a fraction of the Volt's. The Leaf is just an electric car that requires charging stations. The Volt is actually engineered for the current infrastructure reality of the US - you can get gas everywhere, and you can only charge your car in so many locations, so it's a "crossover" vehicle that can let a broader class of folks adopt to a MOSTLY electric style of living.
GM knew full well going into the project that it was risky and it caters to a VERY specific audience of "Green Early Adopters" - folks that are willing to pay a premium for cutting their petroleum footprint.
If you don't like the Volt, you are obviously outside the target demographic. The Volt serves a lot of purposes outside of selling a EREV (Extended Range Electric Vehicle) - it also helps get actual production units to start building the battery production capabilities and infrastructure needed to sustain an electric vehicle fleet. Yes, the Prius has laid some inroads here, and the Volt is another push by another manufacturer.
If you study history at all, the Insight and the Prius were in very similar positions when they came out. Both were sold at low-to-no margins and had relatively crappy first-year sales.
The First Generation Honda Insight (the first mass-produced hybrid) only sold 17,000 units over several years.
The First Generation Prius was initially sold at low-to-no margins by
There is unanimous consensus among the engineering an scientific community that we need to reduce our petroleum usage. There is also a general consensus that an electric vehicle fleet is the most practical way of achieving this goal (and this includes fuel cells which are nothing more than expensive batteries).
Let the technology bake. The battery cost is rapidly falling. Get a few model years out. You may be pleasantly surprised. If it's outside of your budget, don't buy it. It's not for you anyway. You will still benefit from the technological advances of the vehicle. You can't afford a space shuttle but you still benefit from the fringe developments of that program. These types of projects are critical to the development of our electric vehicle infrastructure. You can't convert the American fleet to electric overnight anyway, the grid would have some major problems anyway with a million vehicles charging on it suddenly; they need a few years to get that upgraded. The Volt is the first step of many.
Re:Simpler than that (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't compare the Volt to the Prius. Reviewers who do so are technically incompetent and dishonest.
If you go by just putting gas in the thing, then yes, the Prius comes out favorably. If you compare a Corvette to a minivan by how many passengers you can haul in it, yes, it sucks.
You're not supposed to regularly put gas in the Volt. If you are, you're using it wrong.
The Prius is a gasoline-only hybrid (ignoring the new short-range plug-in version this year which only goes 8-11 miles on a charge or half a typical commute). The Volt is an extended-range electric vehicle.
The Volt is a new class of vehicle. You plug it in regularly, and ideally you almost never put any gas in it. The Prius doesn't do that.
So if you don't want to plug in your car and you want to keep using gas, yes, buy that Prius.
Re:Simpler than that (Score:3, Insightful)
That comparison will become more realistic when the Prius Plug-In comes to market this year. And it will become a complicated comparison. The Prius Plug-In has a rather short electric-only range (11 miles vs. 35 miles in the Volt as measured by EPS, according to Wikipedia). So
-if you daily commute is short enough that the 11 miles will do, you can compare by price and consumption of electric power. Neither car will need fuel.
-if you drive more than 11 miles per day, but have the option to recharge over night, the Volt might come out favorably.
-if you drive hundreds of miles between recharging, you might want a diesel instead of a plug-in hybrid. ;-)
Re:A Joke (Score:5, Insightful)
Your numbers are way way way off. You probably missed a decimal point, it's $0.09 less (at best) per mile and not $0.90. Not counting maintenance and so on.
That changes your examples significantly.
Now your hypothetical ideal Volt candidate only saves $985.50 per year. And pays $20000 more for the car. In other words even the ideal user would lose money by buying a volt because they'd never make up the cost premium
So yes, the comparison is very simple. The Volt sucks and no one should buy one.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:4, Insightful)
could have something to do with the rediculous price for the thing. make it a $20k car, and then folks *might* consider it as opposed to a toyota' gas guzzling prius.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Insightful)
It's all about flexibility. Your Cruze's overall energy cost (electricity + gas) will be much higher than the Volt for regular commuting, since the Cruze can't run on electricity, whereas the Volt can do so for 30-40 miles, which is enough for most commuters. A true EV like the Leaf can go farther, but 1) the Leaf is slow as shit, and tiny too, and 2) once you run out of juice in the Leaf, you're dead. In the Volt, you just switch over to gasoline and keep going. Then when you run out of gas after 300 miles (not too far from a regular car's range), you pull into a gas station and refuel and keep going. You can't do that with a true EV; it's limited to local driving only. So the Volt gives you the option of taking long-distance trips once in a while, even though the economy isn't as good as some smaller cars.
So whether the car is for you depends on your usage pattern. If you mostly commute, but want the ability to take long-distance trips with the same car, it might be a good choice. If you just want to do a lot of long-distance driving, pick another car. If you want something for commuting only, and never plan to exceed 60-80 miles, then a Leaf might be a better choice. The main problem with the Volt as I see it is the price tag, which is $40k (but there's a $7500 federal tax credit too that you should take into account). However, Edmunds says the Leaf costs $35k (minus that same tax credit), so you're not saving that much going full-EV, and you're getting a smaller, slower car with probably a cheaper and more econobox-like interior (Edmunds says the Volt has the nicest and highest-quality interior they've seen in a Chevy). $35k is quite a lot for an economy car really. But the real one to beat is of course the Prius, which is downright reasonable at only $23k, though it doesn't have a plug-in option. There is a different Prius model just now coming out, with limited availability, that's a plug-in, but it costs $32k, a whopping $9k more than the regular version, though again the $7500 tax credit probably applies here; don't know if you can get that credit with the regular Prius but I doubt it.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:4, Insightful)
You addressed it, but I think you missed something: having a second car has its own costs. Now, instead of paying for insurance for one vehicle, you're paying double (no, the insurance companies don't give you a break for having a second car, even if you're a single person and are physically incapable of driving two cars simultaneously). You'll get a small, small break for one of the vehicles being "recreation only" with low miles/year, but it's still a lot more than only having one car. If one of the vehicles is really old and only has liability coverage, you'll get a good break for that, but then you're driving an old car; if you're looking at a Volt, presumably you want to drive around in a new car, not a 20-year-old one.
The tepid sales numbers are almost certainly IMO the result of the high price. For $8k less, you can get one of the new Plug-In Priuses that should have all the advantages of the Volt. The Priuses have been around for a while, and they've been selling like hotcakes, so clearly people want hybrids, they just don't want to pay $40k for them. Also clearly, many people want plug-in hybrids, because there's been a giant underground movement of Prius owner modifying their cars to be plug-ins (even with the puny battery the Prius has), which is the entire reason that Toyota finally made their own Plug-In version of the Prius (which presumably will be better done than the homebrew versions, probably with a larger battery pack).