Chevy Volt Meets High Resistance, GM Suspends Sales 599
Hugh Pickens writes "The Hill reports that GM has announced to employees at one of its facilities that it is suspending production of the Chevy Volt for five weeks and temporarily laying off 1,300 employees. Back when GM launched the beleaguered electric car, it boldly targeted sales of 10,000 in 2011 and 60,000 in 2012 but GM only sold 7,671 Volts in 2011 and just 1,626 so far this year. 'We needed to maintain proper inventory and make sure that we continued to meet market demand,' says GM spokesman Chris Lee. 'We see positive trends, but we needed to make this market adjustment.' Although President Obama promised he would buy a Volt 'five years from now, when I'm not president anymore,' the Volt has come under criticism from Republicans in Congress because of reports of its batteries catching on fire during testing. Ironically, the shutdown comes as gas prices are soaring, exactly the time when an electric car should be an easy sell." If it's still true that GM was taking a loss on every Volt sold, perhaps this is a blessing in disguise.
Too expensive (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ohm I God! (Score:2, Interesting)
Yea, I can't help but laugh Obama's little UAW trash the rule of law give away is about to blow up.
Its time to short GM, they will NOT be repeating their record profits next quarter or the one after it. The numbers are rigged. Its come out in recent days that GM has stuffed the channel like never before. Makes it look like the parent company sold a ton of cars (and technically they did) but the dealers and resellers did not move the inventory; so there will be FAR fewer re-orders.
Also Consumer reports just rated them near the bottom as usual; so much for that turn around and building cars American's want to buy. After a couple years on the road its being revealed the changes are all window dressing and the quality problems are still there. I only hope the next time these fools go bankrupt we let it get handled by the courts like its supposed to so that all that tooling can get sold off cheap to someone who is going to do something worth while with it.
Re:Japan and Europe is where the industry is (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm never going to save $15k - $20k in gas over the life of the car, so buying a comparable car that runs on gasoline is probably a better value.
Lately I've been finding this argument a little disingenuous. For example, if I were to lease a $38K all-electric vehicle my payments would be roughly $360/mo. At $4/gal the money I'd save on gasoline would make my monthly payments comparable to leasing a vehicle worth $20K under identical terms*. In terms of affordability, these who vehicles would almost the same for the duration of the lease. And yes, I figured the cost of electricity as well as gasoline.
The cost difference manifests only in the residual cost, but I need not pay that if I decide not to buy out.
=Smidge=
*Your mileage may vary, of course.
When an electric car should be an easy sell (Score:4, Interesting)
Until a huge breakthrough is made in battery technology, electric cars are doomed to fail, no matter how high the price of gasoline.
Electric cars are too expensive -- it's cheaper to just pay the high gasoline prices.
Electric cars have an extremely limited range and take too to charge -- people will pay for gasoline as a "convenience fee" to be able to go farther, faster.
And even if those two problems are somehow fixed, the elephant in the room, that everyone is desperately trying to ignore, is the enormous cost of replacing the batteries. A conventional gasoline engine, which proper maintenance can last a very long time. And if you do have problems, you can replace/rebuild/replace parts as needed. Worst case -- you can go to a local junk yard and buy a used engine for a few hundred dollars.
With batteries, there is no repair or rebuild or get a used one from a junk yard. Once the batteries reach the end of their life they have to be replaced at a very high cost. As a result, the re-sale value of an electric car is going to be pretty close to zero -- who would want to buy a used electric car knowing that they are guaranteed to get hit with a bill for several thousand dollars in the near future.
Re:I know, I know (Score:4, Interesting)
"Cannot get 4 adults plus dog plus ancillaries in a Yaris."
Have multiple vehicles. I don't drive my F350 Ford or 366 big block Chevy truck unless I need to, but liability insurance is cheap and they are paid for.
Multiple vehicles allows selection of the right tool for the job.
Prius Looks Green (Score:4, Interesting)
There are a lot of hybrids that look like normal cars (toyota camray, ford escape....).
I like hatchbacks, but the prius shape now screams I like the environment. It makes a statement which probably shouldn't be discounted as a reason people buy them.
Plus that shape is areodynamic, thus the honda insight looking almost the same
Re:Japan and Europe is where the industry is (Score:5, Interesting)
Last time I went to a auto show, they had the then-new Ferrari 575.
I waved the sales guy over from beyond the velvet rope (the unwashed crowds not being allowed to mix with the "real" customers) and asked him "how much is a 100,000 kilometer service on one of those things?"
the reply?
"none of our vehicles /ever/ do that many kilometers."
Delivered with just the right amount of "how dare you even THINK about driving your Ferrari that much? For shame, sir. FOR SHAME." sneering.
Re:Simpler than that (Score:2, Interesting)
Too bad the Yaris is also a piece of shit, retaining Toyota's dumb idea from the Echo. I mean, if the driver is sitting on the left, shouldn't the instrument panel also be on the left? Putting it in the center may make it easier to produce for both left and right-hand-drive markets, but it's terrible for actual driving.
Two words (Score:5, Interesting)
Tesla Motors [teslamotors.com]
Telsa is planning on an ~$30,000 model in the next few years. If they achieve this price point and maintain the quality of their current models, I think that they will have an all electric car that many people will want
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:3, Interesting)
*Sigh*. Fine. Then using the linked article above, they sold almost 8k out of 10k for 2011(not bad) but only 1.6k out of 60k for 2012. Any way you look at it the numbers are disastrous. To argue otherwise is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality.
Re:Simpler than that (Score:5, Interesting)
This!
Hybrids are all the rage. But they really aren't that green. Batteries use metals that can be difficult to obtain and energy intensive to produce. They take far too long to recharge. And then they don't last. Pure electric would be the way to go if we had decent batteries, by which I mean batteries that approach the convenience of the humble gas tank. So we have this hybrid approach which uses both gas and electricity in combination. And it still needs a bit of battery capacity. All the expense, trouble and weight of both kinds of drive in one package!
As if battery troubles aren't bad enough, a conventional gas powered direct drive vehicle is quite capable of beating the fuel economy of a hybrid. There's lots of low hanging fruit that manufacturers are still ignoring. They are finally improving transmissions, putting in more gears and dumping that huge, huge waste of gas known as the torque converter. Took them long enough, and there's plenty more. Aerodynamics could so easily be much better. Instant on/off for the gas engine would save big time, and erase the one big advantage hybrids do have: the better city fuel economy. Put up with bad batteries, and then not even get better fuel economy?!
The Yaris is a start, but it is only a start.
Re:Everyone's missing the point of the Volt. (Score:4, Interesting)
While I agree with most of your points I have to say that the Volt has missed it on quite a few fronts:
1) When you go to a Chevy dealer and you want to see one, good luck. They don't have any details, information or even cars for you to test drive. Some dealers in my area are now getting "Volt Specialists" who will work on answer questions but at the sales outlet I expect that I should be able to look, see and feel one.
2) There's been a lot of fraud regarding the Volt and the Gov't Tax incentives. Instead of buying a "new" volt, some people originally were purchasing one that had been cross sold to other dealers. [nlpc.org] Why would I want to deal with a dishonest dealer? No pun intended.
3) It's overpriced for what you get. A plug in Prius can be had for less and the Leaf is kicking the Volt's butt in sales.
4) I have two teenage sons now getting ready to drive (twins) and I'm looking for something economical and safe for them to drive. Electric, Hybrid or high mileage is something I would like to look at. Will I buy two? I don't know but if I don't fit a demographic where I'd at least like to know more and drive one to see, then I don't know what the target demographic is?
5) I can go to a Nissan dealer, touch a Leaf, drive a Leaf, get all of the information and I might add see all of the technical innovations that Volt doesn't have, for less money and I can still get my tax incentive because the dealer hasn't done a swap for the vehicle, negating any benefit I would receive.
6) I can go to a VW dealer and buy any of the blue diesel models that are ready, available and priced less than the Volt, Leaf and in some cases Prius and get better mileage overall. That's another alternative. So, have they all missed the target? No, but the Volt sure has.
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Interesting)
You are absolutely correct that running the electric heater decreases drivable range. EV manufacturers and owners have employed various tactics to deal with this: Preheating the car while it's still plugged in is the primary one, which significantly decreases the load on the heating system. The Nissan LEAF comes with a heated steering wheel and heated seats to keep the driver and passenger(s) warm without heating the entire cabin. Some owners have tried 12V electric blankets, adding homebrew or aftermarket heating systems, or most often just dressing warmly for the trip.
But the real issue is not cabin heating, it's keeping the battery warm. A cold battery means lethargic chemistry, which means reduced power and (temporarily) lost capacity. This is the true nature of EVs in extreme climates.
Fun fact: If the Volt's computer deems it the most efficient method, the gas engine will run just to generate heat. What a waste IMHO...
=Smidge=
Re:Slashdot Suspending Editing (Score:5, Interesting)
No, my math is correct. Don't forget that if you lease, the dealer claims the $7,500 federal tax incentive (perhaps soon to be $10,000?) so that comes right off the top of the car's price. At that point you are no longer comparing $40K to $20K, you're comparing $32K to $20K. This makes ALL the difference.
So... assuming MSRP minus incentive for a gross capitalized cost of approx. $32,000. 36 month lease, 45% residual. Bullshit fees and tax paid up front, plus $4,000 down (total money down: ~$8,100). Monthly payment is $370/mo.
Based on the last 12 months of driving (9557.2 mi) and assuming $4/gallon + 28.88 MPG average over the past 12 months (yes, I keep detailed records), I would be saving about $110/mo. Based on mileage and electricity costs, I would be paying about $35/mo in electricity. Net savings of $75/mo which makes leasing this car comparable to $295/mo. Working backwards, with the same terms and down payment, that's equivalent to a $22,500 vehicle.
So I rounded off from memory instead of re-opening my spreadsheet and was off by $2,500. Sue me. *shrug*
You'll probably complain about the large money down sum. Fine, but it cuts both ways... How much I put down is irrelevant to the relative cost. Example: At $1,000 down the payments become $460 and $385 respectively - still a $75 difference.
I used a 0.00224 money factor and a 15,000 mile/yr lease if you want to try it at home. I'll be happy to compare notes.
=Smidge=
Re:Too expensive (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably because in Europe they actually use clean diesel fuel. All those EPA laws that resulted in smog reduction on cars were never applied to diesel, because of lobbying by the trucking industry. If you applied the same standards to diesel fuel as unleaded it would be plenty clean.