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Power Technology

Hoover Dams For Lilliput: Does Small Hydroelectric Power Have a Future? 302

Posted by timothy
from the plenty-of-room-at-the-bottom dept.
New submitter MatthewVD writes "Boing Boing's Maggie Koerth-Baker, author of Before The Lights Go Out, writes that the era of giant hydroelectric projects like the Hoover Dam has passed. But the Department of Energy has identified 5,400 potential sites for small hydro projects of 30 MWs or less. The sites, in states as dry as Kansas, represent a total 18,000 MW of power — enough to increase by 50 percent America's hydro power. Even New York City's East River has pilot projects to produce power from underwater turbines. As we stare down global warming and peak oil, could small hydroelectric power be a key solution?"
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Hoover Dams For Lilliput: Does Small Hydroelectric Power Have a Future?

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  • Economies of scale (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gazoogleheimer (1466831) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @11:33AM (#39484921) Homepage
    Small hydro is nothing new. The state of Georgia has something like fifty or sixty small hydro sites, and they barely make any electricity -- as those stated in the article. The problem is, however, that hydroelectric power -- even without dams -- is fairly ecologically disturbing. Not only that, but you have to maintain it. Why would you want to have to maintain 5400 power plants that each only make less than 30MW? Yes, it's about four or five thousand households, but that's also about a thirtieth of an average coal plant. There's no incentive to do this. Your ROI is low, your maintenance is high (and difficult)...particularly when chemical belchers like Plant Scherer can exist, which produce upwards of three and a half gigawatts. They aren't trendy, but I've yet to see a conclusive argument against breeder reactors.
  • by ericloewe (2129490) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @11:33AM (#39484925)

    Until everyone realizes that the only short/medium term solution is nuclear, we'll need everything we can get that isn't fossil. Especially coal, but natural gas isn't much better.

    Oil won't get much cheaper anytime soon, and will probably get more expensvie. If that happens, this kind of project will be much more appealing.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @11:39AM (#39485003)

    Dear editors/submitters for Slashdot stories:

    Please eliminate the stupid leading/inflammatory/etc. questions at the end of the summaries. Anyone with an IQ higher than that of a grape has already mentally asked themselves far more insightful questions than the ones posed at the end of the summaries. You are just making yourselves look like idiots by asking them.

    Sincerely,
    An Old AC

  • Contained Hydro (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MountainLogic (92466) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @11:42AM (#39485043) Homepage
    There are many places such as irrigation channels where you can place micro turbines that will have no ill environmental effect as these do not support aquatic life. It looks like this was not included in the report. For example see hydrovolts.com/ for a unique hydro generator that does not need a damn. These can even be placed in the outflow from some sewage or industrial plants. Not big power, but lots of places you can wedge these in to add distributed generation into the grid - often at the ends of branches where it is needed the most.
  • by MozeeToby (1163751) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @11:44AM (#39485057)

    Also, smaller dams means smaller, shallower reservoirs. Which in turn means that they tend to silt up pretty quickly.

  • Re:What? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Colonel Korn (1258968) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @11:46AM (#39485101)

    When total energy required on the order of TWatts, you want to boast about 18GWatt being more than EVERYTHING already out there, hydro-wise?

    No. Really. The ecological damage for that pittance of power just isn't worth it.

    You're doing it wrong. You need to look at opportunity cost and give more than a vague comparison. The correct question from an environmental perspective is, "How does the environmental impact of 18 GW of micro-hydro compare to the environmental impact of the 18 GW of power that will be generated through other means in its absence?"

    You fall into the trap of thinking any solution that isn't a silver bullet is useless. Sadly, this is how most decision making is done. Hell, your comment is probably better reasoned than most energy decisions made by governments in the form of legislation or about governments in the form of voting.

  • Re:Scarce? Where? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by vlm (69642) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @11:53AM (#39485203)

    technology also finds new ways to get at and find oil.

    If that were the case, then the energy returned on energy invested would be increasing, instead of decreasing. It doesn't have to hit "1" to stop, either.

  • by cpu6502 (1960974) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @11:57AM (#39485253)

    What we need is less people (i.e. less babies). All of these problems like scarce energy, high pollution, and dwindling water supplies wouldn't exist if the North American population was only 16 million (1800). Or even 85 million (1900).

  • by mhajicek (1582795) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @12:01PM (#39485285)
    Fuel cell cars are an answer to the problem of energy storage, not energy source. High performance batteries are expensive, and hard on the environment to produce. You can make hydrogen with clean energy almost as easily as you can charge a battery with it, and you can transfer hydrogen faster than electricity.
  • by Daniel Dvorkin (106857) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @12:02PM (#39485295) Homepage Journal

    So you're saying that environmentalists change their opinions as new facts come to light? How dare they? Those flip-floppers!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @12:11PM (#39485413)

    "Replacing oil with a plant-based fuel (ethanol, biodiesel) makes a lot more sense."

    Have you done the math? Replacing, say, half of the demand for oil with either of those would not be practical with current agricultural techniques. It's not that they aren't viable -- they are -- but the sheer *size* of the energy demand is the problem. Heck, whale oil was a renewable resource. It could have lasted forever. The problem was the quantities demanded. It's not easy to replace an average of 85 million barrels of oil per day with *anything*, and while there are many options for doing so, when you try to scale them up to that size or even a decent chunk of it you run into problems. We have a BIG problem coming in the next few decades, so we're going to have to employ many different solutions. And we need to start investing heavily in all of them now.

  • Re:Scarce? Where? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Firethorn (177587) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @12:21PM (#39485557) Homepage Journal

    In real life we have hundreds of years of fossil fuels left.

    In real life we have millions of years; because somewhere between 50 and 200 it'll become increasingly uneconomical to extract said fossil fuels such that alternatives are actually cheaper. The first it's likely to happen to is oil. In 50 years we're likely to let most of it sit in the ground because pulling it out is too expensive except for certain scientific testing.

    Thus the 'peak oil' - at some point extraction cost will exceed the economic worth, and production will start dropping.

    Nuclear is already viable in all but political arenas. Jump the price of power enough and people will hold their nose and select it. Of course, you can't exactly shove nuclear power into a car, and oil is mostly used for transportation. So you're looking at a BIG change if you're going to use nuclear power to provide transport. Something like vast electrification of rail lines, restoration of electric trolly car systems, etc... More dense housing where mass transit is viable.

    Coal is more a competitor for Nuclear, and we have a lot more of it.

  • by wagnerrp (1305589) on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @12:24PM (#39485611)
    You can transfer it quickly, but storage is a pain, and from water to hydrogen and back to water, the best returns aren't even hitting 50%. Nearly all of our hydrogen is produced by cracking petroleum, because electrolysis is just so inefficient.
  • Re:Scarce? Where? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rgbatduke (1231380) <rgbNO@SPAMphy.duke.edu> on Tuesday March 27, 2012 @01:14PM (#39486453) Homepage
    In general I agree with your point, but in fact hydroelectric ties with nuclear for currently having the lowest cost per delivered watt of power of all the extant methods of power generation. Wind is, as you point out, a dead end except for (possibly) solar updraft that is really a variant of solar, not a hillside of windmills. Solar PV has a Moore's Law that appears applicable, which predicts that by the end of this decade it will likely be break even compared to e.g. coal in amortized cost per delivered watt, without subsidy, and thereafter will become ever more economically profitable on a comparative basis.

    Tragically, nobody wants to look at nuclear, especially new generation nuclear that is far safer or thorium that is both safer and not subject to nuclear arms proliferation concerns. Fusion is still on a distant horizon, but if/when it is realized everything else goes away.

    With the possible exception of gasoline. Like it or not, it is difficult to imagine any other way of storing 35 kW-hours in the volume occupied by one gallon of gasoline, in a reasonably stable and safe way. Even if fusion is perfected, solar becomes secondary universal and coal goes away, we'll probably end up synthesizing gasoline (or an equally energy dense equivalent) simply because of that.

    BTW, not all dams are evil, nor are their reservoirs. I'd guess most of them are more beneficial than not. But either way, that can be decided on a case by case basis -- it isn't reasonable to say "building dams is always bad" as people have built dams without worrying about generating power just to regulate flooding or facilitate irrigation or cheap transportation. Beavers build dams in the wild -- sometimes they are "good", sometimes humans go and tear them down as "bad" -- depending on where they are and what results from the dams.

    rgb

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